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  1. #21
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophical Launderer View Post
    Which is absolutely a sign that the game is devolving and really sad. The intelligent thing to do is to uninstall and move on to something new.
    Yes, this is the first time ever a boss has been nerfed. It totally didn't happen in previous expansion, a final proof that BfA is garbage. Why, in good old days, Blizzard never touched bosses at all. It's not like they nerfed Mu'ru twice before even Sunwell 3.0. Nope, didn't happen. Why exactly didn't you uninstall back then?

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophical Launderer View Post
    Which is absolutely a sign that the game is devolving and really sad. The intelligent thing to do is to uninstall and move on to something new.
    Please do. Don't forget to move on properly though and stop posting here. Theres nothing more sad than a person who can't let go.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    Yes, this is the first time ever a boss has been nerfed. It totally didn't happen in previous expansion, a final proof that BfA is garbage. Why, in good old days, Blizzard never touched bosses at all. It's not like they nerfed Mu'ru twice before even Sunwell 3.0. Nope, didn't happen. Why exactly didn't you uninstall back then?
    Sunwell was an irrelevant raid that no one saw. BFA is what happens you let your coffee gophers confuse java beans with real software knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Please do. Don't forget to move on properly though and stop posting here. Theres nothing more sad than a person who can't let go.
    Rofl. 7,336 posts of saying nothing.. shake your head in despair, indeed.
    “The weak are always anxious for justice and equality. The strong pay no heed to either.” ― Aristotle
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  4. #24
    Granted there haven't been a lot of nerfe for Uu'nat these ones seem quite drastic. I think Jainna nerfs are understandable since they want guilds to move to at least the first boss of CoS. I mean we probably don't have that much time left in this tier.

  5. #25
    8.2 is well underway on the ptr, about time they thrashed old content, Jaina needs to hit the benchmark of at least 1000 guilds reaching cutting edge, the only semi recent boss that didn't was KJ with 800 or so and it was considered a nightmare of a boss and nobody liked him. COS mythic also needs to be approachable for typical mythic guilds not just super duper hardcores with 3 alts to rotate in and out to class stack.

    I really don't care for Blizzard to create "dinner impossible" bosses, content should be made for playerbase and not the other way around. It's pretty dumb when I look at my full pop server and only 2 guilds are even attempting mythic COS, none with a kill yet.

    And yeah the footnote on the crucible nerfs "we want these bosses to be more approachable with melee heavy rosters", no shit, how about you start designing melee friendly bosses in a game where you rammed 50% more melee classes than ranged? Or you should have told your class designers to never add death knights, monks and demon hunters and instead add necromancers, tinkers and dark rangers, then you'd justify small amount of melee spots you reserve in your encounter design.

    I guess nothing was learnt from Coven of Shivarra, Aggramar, Fetid Devourer, Mythrax, etc. bosses that had to be nerfed just to allow decent amount of melee in a raid team to participate and not be a burden. I really hope Palace of Azshara is better and not yet another raid in a row called "don't you guys have warlocks?"

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    8.2 is well underway on the ptr, about time they thrashed old content, Jaina needs to hit the benchmark of at least 1000 guilds reaching cutting edge, the only semi recent boss that didn't was KJ with 800 or so and it was considered a nightmare of a boss and nobody liked him. COS mythic also needs to be approachable for typical mythic guilds not just super duper hardcores with 3 alts to rotate in and out to class stack.

    I really don't care for Blizzard to create "dinner impossible" bosses, content should be made for playerbase and not the other way around. It's pretty dumb when I look at my full pop server and only 2 guilds are even attempting mythic COS, none with a kill yet.

    And yeah the footnote on the crucible nerfs "we want these bosses to be more approachable with melee heavy rosters", no shit, how about you start designing melee friendly bosses in a game where you rammed 50% more melee classes than ranged? Or you should have told your class designers to never add death knights, monks and demon hunters and instead add necromancers, tinkers and dark rangers, then you'd justify small amount of melee spots you reserve in your encounter design.

    I guess nothing was learnt from Coven of Shivarra, Aggramar, Fetid Devourer, Mythrax, etc. bosses that had to be nerfed just to allow decent amount of melee in a raid team to participate and not be a burden. I really hope Palace of Azshara is better and not yet another raid in a row called "don't you guys have warlocks?"
    Tbh if you look at team comps of all the pre nerf kills on uunat they are varied and not just "12 warlocks lul"

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by niirb View Post
    Tbh if you look at team comps of all the pre nerf kills on uunat they are varied and not just "12 warlocks lul"
    the only varied and interesting comp is Club Camels, all the others are very similar

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    8.2 is well underway on the ptr, about time they thrashed old content, Jaina needs to hit the benchmark of at least 1000 guilds reaching cutting edge, the only semi recent boss that didn't was KJ with 800 or so and it was considered a nightmare of a boss and nobody liked him. COS mythic also needs to be approachable for typical mythic guilds not just super duper hardcores with 3 alts to rotate in and out to class stack.

    I really don't care for Blizzard to create "dinner impossible" bosses, content should be made for playerbase and not the other way around. It's pretty dumb when I look at my full pop server and only 2 guilds are even attempting mythic COS, none with a kill yet.

    And yeah the footnote on the crucible nerfs "we want these bosses to be more approachable with melee heavy rosters", no shit, how about you start designing melee friendly bosses in a game where you rammed 50% more melee classes than ranged? Or you should have told your class designers to never add death knights, monks and demon hunters and instead add necromancers, tinkers and dark rangers, then you'd justify small amount of melee spots you reserve in your encounter design.

    I guess nothing was learnt from Coven of Shivarra, Aggramar, Fetid Devourer, Mythrax, etc. bosses that had to be nerfed just to allow decent amount of melee in a raid team to participate and not be a burden. I really hope Palace of Azshara is better and not yet another raid in a row called "don't you guys have warlocks?"
    I agree with everything you said.

    There's 608 Jaina kills and almost 1100 guilds are 8/9 (my guild being one of them) and there is 0 reason for any of us to even step foot into M CoS until Jaina dies. I'd be surprised if there were any Cabal kills on guilds that weren't 9/9 so far.

    I think they should have put these Jaina nerfs in a month ago when CoS was released. There's probably going to be a ton of 1/2 guilds that don't kill Uu'nat because EP gets released unless it's another 2-3 months away. I know my guild who just got to Jaina and has only had 2 nights on her probably won't get her for at least another 3 weeks.
    Last edited by shyguybman; 2019-05-13 at 06:58 AM.

  9. #29
    People saying the Jaina nerfs are huge aren't really thinking about how bullshit RNG the fight can be.

    - Fires on the Ballista: Bullshit RNG when no one is standing anywhere near them. You can't deny this.
    - Icefall during winds and she doesn't even give you a chance to see it ahead of time: Bullshit RNG. Praying that something you can't see doesn't get dropped on you should never, ever, be part of a fight's design.
    - Images in P3 spawn closer to Jaina: Can be bullshit RNG at times. Mostly just lets you see where the rays are coming from a lot easier.
    - Blizzard/Freezing Blood being more responsive: Not a nerf, just a fix to Blizzard's poor coding.
    - 5% Health Nerf: About a ~1-1.225% health nerf in P3, the only phase where her health matters. Helps, but isn't as big as you think. This also was totally unnecessary.
    - DoT no longer stacks til she's interrupted: Yeah, this is definitely the biggest nerf, but it's more of a fix so that people do this fight the more intended way. It does make P3 easier than P2 though for sure, assuming you ignored the elemental, but there were even guilds that did kill the elemental prior to engaging P3, which just results in a stack or two less (that elemental melts when you focus it).

    If fixes to bullshit RNG is "demolishing" the fight as I've seen many people here say, idk, I think you guys should learn encounter design. Any time you've ever wiped because the ballistas just lit on fire or you had icefall dumped on the raid during winds, I'd conclude those to be "absolutely bullshit and totally unfair RNG" wipes.

    That's just my two cents though, and I definitely look forward to finishing prog on her this/next week. We've gotten to the 2nd intermission a few times but our warlocks forgot about the interrupt every time so far, lol.

    As for CoS, I can't comment since my guild hasn't touched Mythic CoS at all, but from Uu'nat having 12 kills worldwide, yeah it was definitely time to nerf that, probs the prior fight too.
    Still wondering why I play this game.
    I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.

  10. #30
    @Polarthief the thing is, many people would argue that P3 is a pretty difficult phase in its current iteration and the nerfs make it extremely predictable and a LOT less healing intensive. It will still take some practice but it's similar to P2 now, it's a lot more methodical. It also opens up the possibility for DPS to use their 2 min CD cooldowns on both Wall + P3 Jaina. It might even encourage guilds to 4-heal it instead.

    My guild is progging P3 with the kill elemental strat and even if they die quickly, you still have a small overlap of HoFs with engaging Jaina, and you still engage Jaina with a couple of stacks. Combined with prismatic image RNG it can get chaotic pretty quickly. Not saying it's super RNG but it's definitely harder to juggle all those mechanics at once, instead of the new P3 strat where you have a clear window to reset stacks after killing elementals and engaging Jaina.

    I agree that P1 is the most difficult phase and constitutes most of the wipes, but these changes should reduce the number of P2 and P3 wipes by about 10 / 30% respectively, which is a pretty significant decrease in difficulty.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by trm90 View Post
    @Polarthief
    My guild is progging P3 with the kill elemental strat and even if they die quickly, you still have a small overlap of HoFs with engaging Jaina, and you still engage Jaina with a couple of stacks.
    you could always go into last phase with 0 stacks even if you killed the waterele.
    you just had to make sure to free nathanos with 6-3 seconds left on your 15 second debuff, because during last intermission the debuff stacks up each 15 secs (compared to 10 sec in p3) if you timed the nathanos iceblock well (above mentioned 6-3 sec debuff time left) and instantly interrupted jaina you wont get the refresh from intermission and there is a grace period of 5 seconds after jaina interrupt, where you start getting the p3 stacks which meant that you lost all stacks from the intermission.

  12. #32
    So melee literally have no mechanics to deal with on Uu'nat now. It's like a big training dummy for them.
    Now follows a tier where every guild stacks melee because Blizzard is overcorrecting the ranged class stacking. Next tier you will bring just enough ranged to guarantee that melee aren't being targeted by ranged mechanics. I wonder when Blizzard figures out that there has to be seperate mechanics for ranged and melee on every fight, so that a balanced composition is favorable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh and I pity all the melee players who think this is good news to them. Just imagine the frustration being a melee on Uu'nat. You wipe for hours after hours due to the ranged players having to learn a very complex fight, while you sit in melee with no influence on anything at all. You will be bored to death by the lack of challenge long before your guild even comes close to killing the boss

  13. #33
    flashbacks from nighthold, where you had 4 roles.

    tanks
    healers
    dps (in form of melees)
    mechanics (in form of ranged)

    Blizzard need to exclude melees from the "you need to stay spread" mechanics, like uunat, star augur, mythrax, etc.
    its always the same mechanic that causes melees to struggle.

    if they make such a mechanic they should just let ranged get and handle it, but then give the melees another mechanic as compensation to deal with, so that the fight doesnt become patchwork onlyfor them. best case something that also costs them some dps (like ranged lose dps from dealing with mecahnics due to moving around), else it will be dejavu with nighthold, where basically all melees outperformed ranged in dps, because they had nothing to do and just zerged the bosses, while ranged had to deal with mechanics (pretty sure there will be someone looking for old logs and mimimi that it wasnt the case).

  14. #34
    Pandaren Monk Strikeywikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by texhex View Post
    flashbacks from nighthold, where you had 4 roles.

    tanks
    healers
    dps (in form of melees)
    mechanics (in form of ranged)

    Blizzard need to exclude melees from the "you need to stay spread" mechanics, like uunat, star augur, mythrax, etc.
    its always the same mechanic that causes melees to struggle.

    if they make such a mechanic they should just let ranged get and handle it, but then give the melees another mechanic as compensation to deal with, so that the fight doesnt become patchwork onlyfor them. best case something that also costs them some dps (like ranged lose dps from dealing with mecahnics due to moving around), else it will be dejavu with nighthold, where basically all melees outperformed ranged in dps, because they had nothing to do and just zerged the bosses, while ranged had to deal with mechanics (pretty sure there will be someone looking for old logs and mimimi that it wasnt the case).
    Nighthold, good times as a melee, then Star Auger appeared. I think that boss and Botanist made up for the lack of difficulty for melee.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyaira View Post
    Oh and I pity all the melee players who think this is good news to them. Just imagine the frustration being a melee on Uu'nat. You wipe for hours after hours due to the ranged players having to learn a very complex fight, while you sit in melee with no influence on anything at all. You will be bored to death by the lack of challenge long before your guild even comes close to killing the boss
    Except you really won't wipe for hours after hours after these changes

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by goriander View Post
    Except you really won't wipe for hours after hours after these changes
    12 guilds have killed Uu'nat.

    A 5% health nerf and a shift in who the mechanics target is going to mean you won't wipe for hours and hours?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    12 guilds have killed Uu'nat.

    A 5% health nerf and a shift in who the mechanics target is going to mean you won't wipe for hours and hours?
    Having 5-6 melee dps tunneling the boss combined with the 5% hp nerf will make dps checks and p3 much easier. Melees not getting marks will make p2 interrupts a joke.
    12 marks going out will also make every single part in the fight easier. Marks aren't hard to handle but stupid mistakes will cost you a lot of pulls. After the nerf it's very hard to die to marks. Nerf to laser debuff duration is also pretty big, making it almost impossible to get 2 stacks of the dot.
    Last edited by goriander; 2019-05-13 at 04:51 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by texhex View Post
    flashbacks from nighthold, where you had 4 roles.

    tanks
    healers
    dps (in form of melees)
    mechanics (in form of ranged)
    Tbh melees weren't exempt from soaking Trillax cakes or Krosus elementals, or dodging Elisande rings, they were just exempt from "run of of the raid and stand like a dummy for 30 sec" mechanics because they should be (Aluriel / Chrono / Botanist), as that would completely demolish their capability to dps. If you had shitton of melee you had to make them help doing "range jobs" like killing Botanist flowers or you'd not kill them in time, same with the Trillax / Krosus soaks that couldn't be done by ranged only unless you actually stacked ranged, if you stacked melee they had to help. Chrono / Elisande also needed interrupts that are usually "melee job". And Star Augur by now is a meme about how melee have to pre spread but that was in a world before Fetid DEvourer, pre nerf Mythrax and so forth.

    Tbh I wouldn't mind another "Nighthold" after literally 4-5 raids in a row that preferred ranged. HFC in WOD also preferred ranged. Or at least insert some cleave fights that aren't "spread multidot", sick of all the fights where there are adds but some mechanics prevent you from stacking them with the boss so f u melee cleave, bring more locks / spriests / boomies. Or even boss like Aluriel that let ele shamans and arcane mages shine, for a change.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Tbh melees weren't exempt from soaking Trillax cakes or Krosus elementals, or dodging Elisande rings, they were just exempt from "run of of the raid and stand like a dummy for 30 sec" mechanics because they should be (Aluriel / Chrono / Botanist), as that would completely demolish their capability to dps. If you had shitton of melee you had to make them help doing "range jobs" like killing Botanist flowers or you'd not kill them in time, same with the Trillax / Krosus soaks that couldn't be done by ranged only unless you actually stacked ranged, if you stacked melee they had to help. Chrono / Elisande also needed interrupts that are usually "melee job". And Star Augur by now is a meme about how melee have to pre spread but that was in a world before Fetid DEvourer, pre nerf Mythrax and so forth.

    Tbh I wouldn't mind another "Nighthold" after literally 4-5 raids in a row that preferred ranged. HFC in WOD also preferred ranged. Or at least insert some cleave fights that aren't "spread multidot", sick of all the fights where there are adds but some mechanics prevent you from stacking them with the boss so f u melee cleave, bring more locks / spriests / boomies. Or even boss like Aluriel that let ele shamans and arcane mages shine, for a change.
    What, you don't like 10 out of 11 bosses heavily favouring spriest/warlock?

    Yeah encounter variety in BDA is shit garbage.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    12 guilds have killed Uu'nat.
    And some big ones like Limit and Vodkaz haven't yet. It's been what, 3 weeks mythic is out? Now imagine if these guilds can't kill it what chance does a typical rank 500 guild have to finish the raid before Azshara is out. Knowing that top guilds raid more, have better setups, more optimized gear and more skill than typical middle of the pack mythic guild out there.

    This was meant to be a filler raid to give something to do for people who already killed Jaina, or maybe are stuck on her and need some break from it. It failed horribly, it was tuned around world top 50 at best, maybe top 100 if we stretch it. Especially strange when heroic is so easily puggable, much easier than hc BODA was at start. The tuning disparity between hc COS and mythic COS is just jarring.
    Last edited by Marrilaife; 2019-05-13 at 05:11 PM.

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