Games as a service is fraud

[Yunru]

I hope you guys have 1h and 15 min to watch this.
This guy realy points out some good issues with current games that are online only.
And he also warns abauth streaming only games danger.

I realy like the idea of a law if the video game creator shuts down the game, it needs to provide all the data, so people can still run their product.
Then planned obsolescence pointers, where he mentions how usa is a mess and when in france and germany there is a fight againt it and why it should be also put in digital goods (yeh programers can put in a kill switch into your games to, so once some date happens, the game auto-deletes itself).

However i can see it implented in future laws once wow shuts down (yeh it wont stay up forever trust me), by company going down or by creating wow 2.
There will be outrage. Its un-avoidable.

[chazus]

I hope you guys have 1h and 15 min to watch this.
This guy realy points out some good issues with current games that are online only.
And he also warns abauth streaming only games danger.

I deffo don't have an hour+ to watch it, and the first 30 seconds made my ears bleed.

Basically he's mad. It has little to do with fraud. (By little, I mean "nothing").

Sure, the games shut down, and that sucks. Thats how the industry works. And no, they shouldn't provide the files/data for it. It's called "protecting your IP". It's the same reason Nintendo doesn't want you running Super Mario Bros on a C64.

(Also what does abauth mean?)

EDIT: To be clear, "Games as a Service" is a very specific thing, that apparently he doesn't understand the vernacular of the industry.

I realy like the idea of a law if the video game creator shuts down the game, it needs to provide all the data, so people can still run their product.

Liking an idea doesn't mean it will happen, or should happen. I like the idea of free healthcare, too.

EDIT 2: Okay, I actually started listening to the video. As soon as he mentioned Goldman Sachs, and saying it was 'like that', it pretty much confirmed this guy is just a click bait idiot.

[Jtbrig7390]

it pretty much confirmed this guy is just a click bait idiot.

Well all OP does is post click bait videos, They did it in the BL3 thread as well.

Pointless clickbait thread is pointless.

[Rendark]

It's a good video and he makes some good points.

[chazus]

It's a good video and he makes some good points.

Like? /10char

[glowzone]

Sure, the games shut down, and that sucks. Thats how the industry works. And no, they shouldn't provide the files/data for it. It's called "protecting your IP".

Giving you the ability to create your own servers isn't the same as giving every rando that owns your game your IP.

[chazus]

Giving you the ability to create your own servers isn't the same as giving every rando that owns your game your IP.

Technically, legally, it opens that door. That's one of the many reasons they don't allow it.

Also, no, you don't 'own' the software. I saw that part too, and the guy in the video gracefully ignored all the legal precedents against it.

[glowzone]

Technically, legally, it opens that door. That's one of the many reasons they don't allow it.

Pretty much every mp game before live services worked that way? Did they all risk losing their ip?

[Jtbrig7390]

Because 2-3 kotaku copy-pasted articles a day with titles such as "Randy Pitchford May be a Pedo!" is so much better =P

They are, It isn't a 1hr video its a 10sec read....

[Tech614]

Not watching that video but just gonna say games as a service is a broad term that describes many things.

MMOs have literally always been GAAS, any game that gets post launch support free or paid is technically GAAS, and any game part of a subscription service like PS+, PSNow, Gamepass, EA/Origin Access, Stadia etc is also GAAS.

With that said trying to generalize such a broad fucking term as "fraud" automatically makes me think the guy who made the video is an idiot. Doing this is basically classifying Witcher 3 and Battlefront 2 as the same since they where both technically GAAS.

[chazus]

Pretty much every mp game before live services worked that way? Did they all risk losing their ip?

There are a lot of reasons, that being one of them, yes. Being online has very little to do with it. Hell, even back in offline days with cartridges. You do not own the GAME, you own the cartridge and what to do with it. It's half the reason there was so much legal fighting over roms/copying/etc. You have rights (to back up your own stuff). But you technically, legally, cannot always resell (implying ownership)

- - - Updated - - -

Not watching that video but just gonna say games as a service is a broad term that describes many things.

MMOs have literally always been GAAS, any game that gets post launch support free or paid is technically GAAS, and any game part of a subscription service like PS+, PSNow, Gamepass, EA/Origin Access, Stadia etc is also GAAS.

With that said trying to generalize such a broad fucking term as "fraud" automatically makes me think the guy who made the video is an idiot. Doing this is basically classifying Witcher 3 and Battlefront 2 as the same since they where both technically GAAS.

That's part of the reason it's such a shit video. He's trying to define something that is, be design, defined differently depending on who you ask, and who is asking. And then he contradicts himself, and ignores legal rhetoric and precedent (which, at the end of the day, if you want to use words like 'fraud', are the things to go by).

[gondrin]

There are a lot of reasons, that being one of them, yes. Being online has very little to do with it. Hell, even back in offline days with cartridges. You do not own the GAME, you own the cartridge and what to do with it. It's half the reason there was so much legal fighting over roms/copying/etc. You have rights (to back up your own stuff). But you technically, legally, cannot always resell (implying ownership)

- - - Updated - - -


That's part of the reason it's such a shit video. He's trying to define something that is, be design, defined differently depending on who you ask, and who is asking. And then he contradicts himself, and ignores legal rhetoric and precedent (which, at the end of the day, if you want to use words like 'fraud', are the things to go by).

And this is what most people who complain about this stuff doesn't realize. Software is treated differently due to the fact that a perfect copy can be made near instantly and nearly without any limits on how many can be made unlike a physical good. That is why you can sell any cartridge or disc you have for a console and be fine as you are losing access to said software, however you cannot resell digital downloads unless that license is revoked, like how steam does it. You will see this become an issue if 3D printers get more sophisticated and widely available.

I've told people that you aren't buying the software, you are buying the license key to access said software. While I'm not a fan of where the industry has been heading and will head, it is the natural outcome of content owners trying to make money off of their content while trying to fight piracy in the process. They want strict control of how their content is consumed(started with how VHS and cassette tapes were handled in the 70s). While it wont outright prevent piracy, if gaming and media goes full on streaming instead of actual installing it, it will surely put a dent in it. Unlike YouTube or any other streaming video/music where a person can "download a stream" and save it, streaming a game would be near impossible to copy and install on a local machine as you aren't getting the actual data for the files, just the rendered image.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I wouldn't call it fraud, more like just a Industry trend that has some shady underbelly. Games as a Service are fine but they become a problem when every single game out there IS one of those things.

[chazus]

And this is what most people who complain about this stuff doesn't realize. Software is treated differently due to the fact that a perfect copy can be made near instantly and nearly without any limits on how many can be made unlike a physical good. That is why you can sell any cartridge or disc you have for a console and be fine as you are losing access to said software, however you cannot resell digital downloads unless that license is revoked, like how steam does it. You will see this become an issue if 3D printers get more sophisticated and widely available.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I agree with the practice or think it's okay. I just mean it's legal (trust me, if it wasn't, it wouldn't be some youtuber revealing some secret. Companies would have been sued into the dark ages decades ago).

That said, there are ups and downs to it, but a lot of that, up or down, is simply the way of the industry, and the way technology is going. Saying otherwise is the technological and legal equivalent of "you kids get off my lawn". It may suck, and perhaps there is room for change... But it's sort of the way of the future.

[Onikaroshi]

Love GaaS games, bout the only style of games I play. MMO's, looter shooters, arpgs, etc. Anything will multiple years of support and is multiplayer, get bored otherwise.

[gondrin]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I agree with the practice or think it's okay. I just mean it's legal (trust me, if it wasn't, it wouldn't be some youtuber revealing some secret. Companies would have been sued into the dark ages decades ago).

That said, there are ups and downs to it, but a lot of that, up or down, is simply the way of the industry, and the way technology is going. Saying otherwise is the technological and legal equivalent of "you kids get off my lawn". It may suck, and perhaps there is room for change... But it's sort of the way of the future.

The biggest hurdle, at least with streaming games, is infrastructure. I don't agree with the practice but the writing has been on the wall for a good decade or more ago when Steam started to become the way to buy games online along with Netflix all but abandoning their original model of sending discs out for streaming. I remember telling a gamestop employee nearly 20 years ago that their store will be nothing more then a kiosk in a mall somewhere in the future. While the mall part wont be true, the rest of it might be if consoles get rid of their disc drives and go more towards an all digital thing.

The only hope I have, and it is a long shot, is that this will allow entire game catalogs to be accessed instead of piecemeal backward compatibility as there would no longer be an issue with hardware on the user end. But that is a very long shot and a pipe dream.

[kail]

So I give damn near every video a solid watch before giving feedback, even from channels I tend disagree on. But this video already went on for 15 minutes without giving anything relevant so far, it had it's chance. Whoever that Youtuber is, he needs to work on presenting his case without useless fluff. Took too long to even define what he thinks is GAAS.

Did anyone stomach through that video and can provide a few bullet points?

I realy like the idea of a law if the video game creator shuts down the game, it needs to provide all the data, so people can still run their product.

I can agree to some public domain law on "abandonware" and such. If IP owners haven't bothered with certain software for a set amount of time, it becomes legal to freely share it. Outside of that the proposal just shits on the concept of owning IP. You should have control over the code, art, writing, etc that you create.

- - - Updated - - -

Not watching that video but just gonna say games as a service is a broad term that describes many things.

MMOs have literally always been GAAS, any game that gets post launch support free or paid is technically GAAS, and any game part of a subscription service like PS+, PSNow, Gamepass, EA/Origin Access, Stadia etc is also GAAS.

With that said trying to generalize such a broad fucking term as "fraud" automatically makes me think the guy who made the video is an idiot. Doing this is basically classifying Witcher 3 and Battlefront 2 as the same since they where both technically GAAS.

I went far enough where the video states neither (cept for maybe BF2) as GAAS. If the owners can deny your ability to play the product, it's GAAS (not my words). Why that doesn't apply to MMOs, haven't the slightest clue and maybe someone else could explain from the video.

[Tech614]

I went far enough where the video states neither (cept for maybe BF2) as GAAS. If the owners can deny your ability to play the product, it's GAAS (not my words). Why that doesn't apply to MMOs, haven't the slightest clue and maybe someone else could explain from the video.

Yea basically his own ass pull definition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_as_a_service Literally any game that receives content updates after launch classifies as one. This guy is just looking for cheap likes on a subject that is mostly preaching to the choir but GAAS does not inherently mean predatory practices and he should stop trying to use a broad term as such.

[Celista]

Someone is mad about Wildstar being shut down.

He has some good points, though.

[SirCowdog]

Giving you the ability to create your own servers isn't the same as giving every rando that owns your game your IP.

I've always wondered why some of the owners of these IP didn't sell a limited license to the larger kickstarter groups, or more professional private parties, to take over the running of the servers and service the game provided. I'm no business lawyer, but it seems like it should be possible to rent or lease the IP out. The third party runs the game and keeps the servers open for players with the ownership of the IP remaining with the original company. Maybe include a clause that support and updates will be extremely limited, and that continued use of the service is on an "As-Is" basis.