Tipping Pizza Delivery Drivers (and waiters in general)

[Eveningforest]

Judging from the comments; empathy is an American only emotion.

These people would rather others starve than tip a few bucks. Just to “fight the man”. Ignoring that anyone who’s “the man” isn’t waiting or delivering crap

I don't think it's lack of empathy but a lack of understanding on their part as to why Americans don't fight for their rights more. People have been made into powerless worker bees and brainwashed for too long here to demand better conditions. This is frustrating for Europeans to see because they know from their own countries how different things can be. I'm sure lots of them would be absolutely appalled if they knew that my last company found a way to fire anyone who only mentioned the word "union."

[Zantos]

I don't think it's lack of empathy but a lack of understanding on their part as to why Americans don't fight for their rights more.

The reason they don't fight, in tippings case, is because the ones who would have to fight for it don't want to. A lot of the time, they can get tips and not report it. Since if its in cash, kinda hard to track that. Not only that, but a good waiter/waitress could easily make far more in a single night in tips then they would on a wage. So they don't want to remove tipping because it would lower the money they make.

[Eveningforest]

The reason they don't fight, in tippings case, is because the ones who would have to fight for it don't want to. A lot of the time, they can get tips and not report it. Since if its in cash, kinda hard to track that. Not only that, but a good waiter/waitress could easily make far more in a single night in tips then they would on a wage. So they don't want to remove tipping because it would lower the money they make.

Oh, I agree with you when it comes to wait staff. I was speaking on a much more general level concerning labor rights. I should have clarified that better.

[Zantos]

Oh, I agree with you when it comes to wait staff. I was speaking on a much more general level concerning labor rights. I should have clarified that better.

I agree. Too many states going right to work. Even mentioning the word union will get you fired at places. I know my old job is like that. Mention union and you're gone.

[Lemonpartyfan]

@Lemonpartyfan To sum up your points, you don't have any actual evidence or studies and I'm just supposed to accept your account of what you "know". Right, got it. I think that when considering a problem that goes across the country and encompasses a range of settings, I'll opt for a wider statistical view. Enjoy your day.

You know the article you posted it based on "observations" made by an article by Slate, right? Where is their proof?

Which of my points requires studies? My own personal experiences?

I called out the article that you posted as dishonest and gave points as to why, I don't need studies to show that. I believe the only thing that I said that could possibly require a citation is that young white men tend to be better tippers.

Other than that single one, which I will go find for you, you have literally refused to argue any of the points I made. I don't need (and can't possibly) give a citation that "proves" that the article contradicts itself. Do you understand?

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You're missing the main point the article is making. You see "servers act better towards particular group in hopes of tips" and think that equals "better service means better tips".
When it's more that servers profile, and act after that. If they see a group of obviously buisness people out, they'll get more attention than the young twenty something couple out on a date. The servers won't act good as a default and hope from a small bit extra in every place. Instead they'll just go after their industries whales hoping for a big catch. (All the while assuming everyone will tip them).

The point is that how set up is tipping doesn't insentivice good service. It insentivies sucking up targeted groups of costumers who are assumed to tip more for various reasons (false or true reasons does not matter). Which is the opposite of the point behind that tipping is a mark of good service. It's just that good tips just shows you were lucky with who showed up to your tables that one evening.
Instead of as in Sweden, where tipping is not a thing expected but a bonus for a good experience. Do servers still fish for tips from companies that are likely to tip more? (A larger group of people out are for example practically always more likely to tip well in Sweden than a smaller group). Yeah, absolutely they to some degree do. But they don't give worse service to anyone to ensure good service to the first group.

The point what you quoted was that the behaviour isn't tips affecting service. It's service affecting projected tips.

The bolded is literally proving my point. The servers think they will get better tips so they give better (and more) service to that group of people. The article flatly contradicts itself.. More attention is better service; things like refills tend to be what people care about, and when you get more attention, you're getting more refills.

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Mileage varies among servers, but it is definitely true that many if not a majority would protest switching to a straight hourly wage. I made a bit over $25 an hour (total compensation) last night, and it was a very sub-par night. Does anyone think servers in casual dining would get more than $25/hour if we abandoned tipping and just paid an hourly wage? I don't think it's likely. Plenty of servers would see a steep drop in income, especially since the hours available to you as a server aren't 'full time' for most of a restaurant's waitstaff.

B-b-b-b-b-b-but I thought servers only make 2.13 an hour??????????????

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Nope you don't got it, but if that is the limit of your reading comprehension skills then we have nothing further to discuss really. I care little to play the game where you twist what I'm saying so you can argue with yourself.

I'm not twisting what you are saying. You are flat out saying you don't give a fuck about people who work in jobs that earn tips.

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Just in case the other guy doesn't tell me, you can as well I guess, since that is your argument. I'd like to compare the prices of average meals at average restaurants not including tip between our countries.

Like what are we talking, a decent steak dinner?

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10% is my usual tip.
(not when the bill already includes DELIVERY TAX, though).

You know those people don't receive that money, right?

[Merie]

You must be a millennial....selfishness is the trait millennials will forever be known for in history

I'm a millennial and I tip. But that aside, whatever selfishness millennials are known for utterly pales in comparison to that of the baby boomers that have paid for things with national debt they will not live to repay, instead passing said debts to their decedents to deal with.

[matheney2k]

I'm not twisting what you are saying. You are flat out saying you don't give a fuck about people who work in jobs that earn tips.

No I'm saying their employers don't give a fuck about people who work in jobs that earn tips, and that it is not my responsibility to compensate for their greed. I daresay it is a fair bet to say that you don't give a fuck about me, so don't sit there like some saint acting like your heart is bleeding for every poor soul.

[Laqweeta]

$2 tip to all delivery drivers.

If it's not enough for you, get a job where you don't live off of tips.

It used to be $4, but people wanna get greedy and add a $2 "delivery charge"

[lockedout]

Do you tip based on the meal base price, or do you tip based on the final amount that includes taxes and other fees like delivery charge?

Say you have the following pizza order:

Subtotal $16.58
Delivery Fee $3.45
Estimated Tax $1.65
Total $21.68

Pizza tipping guides say to tip a minimum of $3 for orders under $20, and a minimum of $5 for orders over $20. Do you consider this an order under $20 or over $20? I would tend to give them $25 in cash, which means a $3.32 tip. Note that the pizza place is two miles away, straight down the road with no special circumstances like rain or snow.

What percentage tip is $3.32 on this order?

A) 3.32/16.58 = 20%
B) 3.32/(16.58+1.65) = 18%
C) 3.32/21.68 = 15%

Do you think this technically crosses the $20 barrier to a $5 minimum tip?
In a regular restaurant, do you tip based on the final bill amount or the pre-tax amount?

Edit: Is $25 in cash for a $21.68 pizza order 2 miles away in nice weather decent?

If there is a delivery fee I don't tip at all.

[Sluvs]

Always 10%.

Also not from the US.

[bungeebungee]

Hahaha not how that works guy

Actually, that's exactly how it works. If you want to call someone out on sources, get your ass onto Google and prove your point, otherwise you're just blathering.

That being said, even those that do site accurate information

"Cite" For gods' sake man, the word is cite. I realize you think you're a clever fellow calling yourself doctor with your GED and some certificates, but in this segment of your post do you have any clue how full bore Trump you sound? You move from a word salad of stale movie references into a personal attack that devolves into a lecture on your opinion of how people post and what you think it means, salted in Trump like fashion with near random use of caps for shouting, and you cap it with your chosen pet name in the style of Trump and "Pocahontas".

If the broken clock is me

Alas, not everything in the world is about you, it is an example of how stories and statistics work.

Well no Bungeebungee, now there is where we are going to disagree

You're likely right, we are going to disagree on that point because I'm looking at evidence and you're pulling an argument out of your ass. In the language you quoted, I say there are two conflicting points being made about tipping. On one hand, some say servers are making good money. Here's an example:

I made a bit over $25 an hour (total compensation) last night, and it was a very sub-par night. Does anyone think servers in casual dining would get more than $25/hour if we abandoned tipping and just paid an hourly wage?

On the other hand, some such as you say servers are paid shit. See? Like this:

the problem though is these people are still paid like shit

This is why I say people need to start coming up with studies instead of slinging around personal accounts. Which is it? Is Gestopft getting paid like shit by making $25/hour on a very sub-par night, or are you just playing an unsupported sympathy card to justify a business model that -- and I'll say it again -- doesn't even manage to make it up to Chinese standards. If we go by individual accounts, the two stories don't mesh well, but if each were put into a broader perspective we could see how they fit statistical trends -- some do make good money, but as a group servers don't.

No, you're wrong, and in places especially like the U.S where people count on their tips to make a living

Let's get this clear, not "especially like the U.S." Nobody else uses that business model. My turn for the personal anecdote. Do you know why I didn't work as a waiter or delivery person? Crappy work and a pay model that I wouldn't accept. I cleaned under printing presses with naptha, I washed radioactive glassware in a lab, I augmented that by scooping ice cream at a chain, I eventually put in six years of my life in uniform to put myself through school ... but I never accepted that model, thought it was shit, and didn't support it then when I was in the pool that those businesses draw on for labor.

Back in the day, National Lampoon ran a cover saying "If you don't buy this magazine, we'll kill this dog". That's what you're doing in this thread. Servers are pretty well being held hostage and the job market so far makes sure that businesses don't have much reason to change their model. Aside from the sympathy card though, if people stopped buying into that system, there would be fewer people willing to work under those conditions. I wasn't, I didn't.

Sexual harassment is shitty, as are some of the shitty tactics owners use to get staff to increase business and get their patrons to pay more money on everything including tips for which even some business tries to cut into that also.

Finally, something you almost got right, except for missing the connection to tipping. This is a thread where people are justifying an abusive model because the victims need the work. Welcome to pimping lite. Who works those jobs? A bunch of women. What do they put up with for tips? A hell of a lot. Why? Because they are sucked into the system and that is brushed off without even a nod and a wink.

I love that instead of voting you're advocating for harming the people bringing you your food.

Pardon me for butting in, but I think the expression is to vote with one's money. Tipping, as unpleasant as the truth is to hear, is voluntary. If the money sucks, people should find alternate ways to make a living. It may take going an extra step or two -- moving, getting job training, or whatever else -- but pizza delivery is a dead end job so those bridges will need to be crossed at some point anyway.

Where is their proof?

You mean other than things like the government statistics they cited. You pretty clearly have barely skimmed the article, which refers to an article from Slate as a lead in but is based on an interview with the director of the Food Labor Research Center at the University of California, Berkeley. You're a random guy on the internet, but when an academic from SoCalBerk takes a public stand and gets it wrong, they get sued and they're gone -- she seems to have survived a pretty basic check on whether her sources hold up. Google her. Here's a short version: https://rocunited.org/staff-and-locals/saru-jayaraman/

Saru is a graduate of Yale Law School and the Harvard Kennedy School of Government. She was profiled in the New York Times’ “Public Lives” section in 2005, named one of Crain’s “40 Under 40” in 2008, was 1010 Wins’ “Newsmaker of the Year” and New York Magazine’s “Influentials” of New York City. She was listed in CNN’s “Top10 Visionary Women” and recognized as a Champion of Change by the White House in 2014, and a James Beard Foundation Leadership Award in 2015. Saru authored Behind the Kitchen Door (Cornell University Press, 2013), a national bestseller, and has appeared on CNN with Soledad O’Brien, Bill Moyers Journal on PBS, Melissa Harris Perry and UP with Chris Hayes on MSNBC, Real Time with Bill Maher on HBO, the Today Show, and NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams.

I'll accept those things as making a showing she knows what she's talking about.

[LinkR]

I'll only tip if I know for sure they aren't using a billing system that automatically inflates the price to account for tipping. A few places do this to effectively double dip...

[Doctor Amadeus]

Actually, that's exactly how it works. If you want to call someone out on sources, get your ass onto Google and prove your point, otherwise you're just blathering.

No, not how it works, when you make substantiated claims, made by nothing but your own imagination, "Citing" some source outside from yourself that doesn't support your nonsense doesn't work. Just as when you do find something you copied and pasted from somewhere else, it doesn't mean you get to springboard off someone else's thought and ideas and start weaving your own.

What's more I don't have to do any of that shit and I can still destroy your arguments "Site" or "Cited"

"Cite" For gods' sake man, the word is cite.

Well you're finally correct about something.

I realize you think you're a clever fellow calling yourself doctor with your GED and some certificates, but in this segment of your post do you have any clue how full bore Trump you sound?

A personal attack, Bungegbungee right I am not a Doctor, and I am also not a 18th Century Austrian Composer either, it supposed to be a joke, the whole idea is about self importance kind of like what you do, only not with a name pretending to be qualified in something you aren't and trying to qualify that by GOOGLE.

You move from a word salad of stale movie references into a personal attack that devolves into a lecture on your opinion of how people post and what you think it means, salted in Trump like fashion with near random use of caps for shouting, and you cap it with your chosen pet name in the style of Trump and "Pocahontas".

No just you pontificating and making another random meaningless insult after, I guess being insulted by my references to "The Hunt for Red October" which was honestly just me being sill but ok.

Alas, not everything in the world is about you, it is an example of how stories and statistics work.

Well if you say so

You're likely right, we are going to disagree on that point because I'm looking at evidence and you're pulling an argument out of your ass. In the language you quoted, I say there are two conflicting points being made about tipping. On one hand, some say servers are making good money. Here's an example:


On the other hand, some such as you say servers are paid shit. See? Like this:


This is why I say people need to start coming up with studies instead of slinging around personal accounts. Which is it? Is Gestopft getting paid like shit by making $25/hour on a very sub-par night, or are you just playing an unsupported sympathy card to justify a business model that -- and I'll say it again -- doesn't even manage to make it up to Chinese standards. If we go by individual accounts, the two stories don't mesh well, but if each were put into a broader perspective we could see how they fit statistical trends -- some do make good money, but as a group servers don't.

Yes you like to pontificate nonsense, while never showing your hand or saying very much in general, up until this point I had considered it because you were thoughtful.
You aren't you simply hang to the idea "Better to be thought a fool rather than remove all doubt".

Which is why you copy and past sources that don't support your claims like so many others do.


Again the thread is about tipping Pizza Delivery Drivers, and Waiters. You certainly have YOUR perspective, but that is all it is. Not a bout you flexing knowledge you don't have from studies you didn't do to make the bad arguments you didn't even earn.

[Avskildhet]

You live in Europe. In America we don't pay waiters, delivery drivers, or bartenders livable wages and in many cases it's actually under Federal minimum. The industry claims you get better service and cheaper prices on the food.

I never tip in thailand either.

[Tazr]

For Grubhub/food delivery, I tip a flat $5 regardless of order amount. Keeps it simple, and is usually a better, to significantly better, tip than if I did the usually recommended 10-12% of the food price. Grubhub's gone a bit nuts, and now defaults to 15% of cost of food + taxes + service fees (which alone are around $5)! Yeah, I'm not tipping $8 on a delivery order under $30. Bear in mind, my orders are only for 1-2 people. If I happen to place a large or complex order, or if the weather is awful, I'll tip $10.

For restaurants, unless the server is an asshole (I do NOT dock tips for stuff beyond their control, which is mean), I tip at least 20% of meal price, not including taxes - rounded up to the next dollar. If the server is superlative or even struck me as having a great personality, I tip 25% or more. If I'm in a group that splits the check (or I'm being treated), and someone is being a cheap ass with the tip, I make up the difference to ensure the server isn't stiffed.

I tend to agree with the general rules of bar and restaurant tipping here: https://www.bonappetit.com/columns/t...h-should-i-tip

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You must be a millennial....selfishness is the trait millennials will forever be known for in history

Or they're just not in the U.S. Lots of countries pay people real salaries, so tips aren't expected or required.

[lokithor]

I usually tip off the subtotal, rounded up to the next dollar. 5 dollar minimum.

Subtotal $16.58
Delivery Fee $3.45
Estimated Tax $1.65
Tip $5.00
Total $26.68

Really sucks that delivery drivers dont get the fee.

[Jastall]

15% is the standard around here, so that's what I tip all the time. Albeit I almost never ask for delivery, I give them less when I do since they already charge a delivery fee.

[Doctor Amadeus]

You mean other than things like the government statistics they cited. You pretty clearly have barely skimmed the article, which refers to an article from Slate as a lead in but is based on an interview with the director of the Food Labor Research Center at the University of California, Berkeley. You're a random guy on the internet, but when an academic from SoCalBerk takes a public stand and gets it wrong, they get sued and they're gone -- she seems to have survived a pretty basic check on whether her sources hold up. Google her. Here's a short version: https://rocunited.org/staff-and-locals/saru-jayaraman/


I'll accept those things as making a showing she knows what she's talking about.

She may know what she is talking about but you don't and she isn't here, you are just copy and pasting her ideas and then pontificating on top of that with bullshit pulled from your ass in other words Anecdotal experiences.

This is part of a much bigger problem than misspellings or people in general being full of shit and making shit up. This in essence is basically just fucking stealing quotes and information from someone else somewhere else, and trying to spin that into 4+4 = 44

[smityx]

Pay a reasonable wage and dump this tipping crap. But if you do tip please do it directly with cash to the person you're tipping. Otherwise there's the chance it's being skimmed by the manager/owner and the person loses out.

[bungeebungee]

What's more I don't have to do any of that shit and I can still destroy your arguments "Site" or "Cited"

You've barely managed to string together intelligible sentences, let alone frame a rebuttal.

A personal attack

Unfair, ain't it. The other side is just supposed to let you talk crap and hang nicknames on them without speaking up. I guess I didn't get the memo. If you don't want it, don't start it. Seriously? Am I supposed to be put in my place by you hanging a woman's name on me? Look, she makes more than I do and more people follow her. Hunt for Red October? You had to dig back to something that old to imply you're a heroic fellow battling Communists?

while never showing your hand

Hmmm... you managed to write that right under an example where I laid things out complete with specific quotes for both points. I am duly impressed with my own subtlety!

You brought up the usual tip or your food will be tampered with threat, and when that didn't play well you backed off and tried to get up on a moral high horse. You went for the sympathy card, that those poor servers are paid shit and treated like shit. That isn't going so well either, since people in the thread are writing about how much they make. Now, you don't have anything better to offer than digging in on me producing an article that looks at the overall state of the industry. It somehow, by your words, doesn't support what I say (by the way, you need to get the difference between quote and copy paste down) but you wave that around as a vague accusation and can't even produce an example.

Basically, you're anti-intellectual. You get triggered by anything that uses research. You aren't trained to do it and you aren't trained to understand it, so you can't really do anything except bluster along on how you see the world. Well, I probably should stay the hell away from fixing cars on similar grounds, but then I'm not afraid to admit that and when I've had to do it I know how to take up the challenge.

Now, we can happily sling mud at each other, or you can actually take up a challenge yourself. Do some real research for a change, look for things to support your points. Write something that takes some actual thought. If I'm wrong, prove it, it ought to be easy.