Poll: When did Warcraft lore start going down?

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  1. #181
    I may be alone here, but I REALLY fucking hate that they divide what little, terrible plot and lore there is between the game and the books.

    A lot of what's going on in the game is unraveled or clouded by the books and vis versa.

    Also, the terrible writers need to be replaced. There are plenty of DeviantArt furry fanfic writers that'd do a better job for 1% of the pay without jamming forced diversity and 'fight the patriarchy!' shit down our throats.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    Kael'thas joining the Legion makes senses as the current night elves rangers or if randomly Tirion sided with the LK, the characters has lots of beef with the enemy and would rather die than join them. Also Grom is just a hero in eyes of the horde or among the orcs at worse case, he isn't celebrated by every race as the killer of Mannoroth.
    I don't get your line about Grom - I brought him up because he was a prominent character since WC2 - and he was infamous to the Alliance, and became so to the NEs in WC3. Tirion and the LK are mortal enemies, but thats not really so with Kael'Thas and the Legion. Warcraft as a whole is sort of like Game of Thrones, people are always betraying others for their interests. Kaels was his people, if you read the full WC3/BC storyline. Plus its not like Kael and Illidan are best friends...

    So while we ended up killing Kael'thas, it wasn't because he was necessarily "evil," ... many villains are just in the way. The PCs allied themselves with Shattrath and the Naaru when we go to Outland, and they asked for help killing Kael'Thas and Illidan.

    I get it, people liked those characters. But that doesn't make them immune to being traitors, or immune to villainy.

  3. #183
    Herald of the Titans Aoyi's Avatar
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    I think the problem has been there from the beginning when talking about in game lore. The best writing has always been in the books. The game has told the bare minimum to get you from point A to point B. I understand Blizzard wanting to make money, so selling books to go along with their game makes sense, but when major character developments or deaths happen in an optional medium, the absence in game is felt. Especially seeing how much better other mmo’s handle story in game.

  4. #184
    The moment Forsaken were shoved into the Horde.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I don't get your line about Grom - I brought him up because he was a prominent character since WC2 - and he was infamous to the Alliance, and became so to the NEs in WC3. Tirion and the LK are mortal enemies, but thats not really so with Kael'Thas and the Legion. Warcraft as a whole is sort of like Game of Thrones, people are always betraying others for their interests. Kaels was his people, if you read the full WC3/BC storyline. Plus its not like Kael and Illidan are best friends...

    So while we ended up killing Kael'thas, it wasn't because he was necessarily "evil," ... many villains are just in the way. The PCs allied themselves with Shattrath and the Naaru when we go to Outland, and they asked for help killing Kael'Thas and Illidan.

    I get it, people liked those characters. But that doesn't make them immune to being traitors, or immune to villainy.
    I though you example of Gromm was his heel-face turning but actually that never happened and even WoD showed him as a big bad guy, Kael'thas was always noble and if Garithos wasn't around, he probably would be a member of the alliance with his people. Besides he knows the cause of his suffering comes from the Legion which is why villain bate him out of the nowhere is weird as much as Tirion joining the LK, both lose their family because of the consequences of some jerk playing with toys that were gived by an malevolent entity.

    Also Illidan got a brez to defeat the legion which defeats the purpose of the villain bate or would you have liked to see Turalyon going nuts by the light and kille only to return as Turalyon the white to defeat Xe'ra?
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    Voted Baine because... Well, Baine. Total nonsensical character, looks like World War II Italy, nobody really understands what role he's supposed to fill, not even himself

  6. #186
    going down? it was never up. but that's fine. it's a very basic and simple story with all the classic tropes. i've never had an issue with the lore. i've always enjoyed it. and i still do.

    you want to know who really destroyed the lore? it was you. you sad nerds fighting over fictional facts on the internet.

    i'm so sick of this. every time i come here, it's all i see. the writing sucks, the writing sucks, the writing sucks, the writing sucks.

  7. #187
    To most of the complainers, especially on this forum: Whichever expansion they finally started paying attention to the story in, and started judging it right away because it's the cool thing to do, without taking a look at any of the past contexts.

    This is why we have people crying about how the faction war doesn't make sense lmao

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Stardrift View Post
    To most of the complainers, especially on this forum: Whichever expansion they finally started paying attention to the story in, and started judging it right away because it's the cool thing to do, without taking a look at any of the past contexts.

    This is why we have people crying about how the faction war doesn't make sense lmao
    Yeah, and the Forsaken willingly turning into the Scourge!!! Oh wait...

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathasil View Post
    Yeah, and the Forsaken willingly turning into the Scourge!!! Oh wait...
    Did I ever say there wasn't a problem with the lore? I'm more so getting at those that complain about the most simple, properly established stuff that they have no understanding of.

  10. #190
    where is anduin and human potential™?

  11. #191
    I have been of the opinion that they missed a great opportunity starting at the Wrath Gate. Having Garrosh lead the charge instead of Dranosh always felt like it would have been a better move and made more sense to me.

  12. #192
    When they tried to make the lore about pvp.

    Faction conflict should have ended years ago.

  13. #193
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    Its never went downhill and its never been great. Its been a fine wave of ups and down every expansion, alot of lore that has been added or reworked has had its problems and various implications ignored or quickly brushed over.

    But its a story made into an MMO, we can only get so much because Blizzard chases down the main story beats instead of fleshing out minor or small details, or lately moving past major events and consequences to chases down the main story/goal of the Expansion.

    Also we are sideline characters, we aren't the main forces in this story, we don't get to see everything or be apart of everything that happens, we are completely reactionary to the events of others.
    Last edited by Evaddon; 2019-05-16 at 01:54 AM.

  14. #194
    It's hard to really say. I feel like the narrative style of WoW was enjoyable even if the story wasn't, up until WoD.

    In WoD I felt some kind of strong narrative shift. This idea that your character is a grand champion of your faction, and the game being written around the presence of your character itself was downright jarring for me. In WoW I've always felt like a one-of-many, a hero but not an actual canon lore figure, more of a means to tell a story. When they changed this, it felt like it took away so much magic in the storytelling of the game for me, and I can't even fully explain why.

    It's funny because while BC's story was horrible, the method in which it was shown to you made it almost an afterthought. You were an explorer of Outland, and the overarching narrative of Illidan vs Shattrath was just a part of the narrative. It's hard to say the story went downhill in BC because at the time, the story was more of a broad thing you could seek out through NPC text instead of the driving point of the expansion.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho21 View Post
    I thought Cataclysm was excellent in Lore. It brought an end to the Deathwing arc as well as the Unlimited POWAH the Dragonflights seemed to have. I didn't like the Aggra-Thrall thing at the end. I didn't like the lead up to MoP. And that's where I think the lore took a shit. MoP onward was/has been/is a shitshow. WoD, ugh, I cannot stand. Legion was TBC 2.0 done right, even with a time travel Gul'dan.

    BfA I will honestly wait until the end to declare it the Windows Millennium Edition of WoW. Thus far, it's shaping up to be worse than WoD.
    Gotta love this week's bad lore:

    "You were followed?!?"

    "I was following THEM"

    "So wait you mean that rather than tell me there were assassins that you knew were lurking around you waited until they possibly injured me or are you lying and they were really following you which is the more plausible point?"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Chonar View Post
    Jokes on you, this place is the correct timeline. I bet you're in the one that doesn't have flying cars, each consecutive year is worse, and where some failed businessman is US president or something, hah!
    Better than your timeline where either a woman who allows her husband to rape women and then pretends to champion them in an election, except when they don't vote for her then they are deplorables OR a man who lets racists from BLM shout him off his own stage who would then just as easily get shouted down by Russia, NK, the EU, and China while in office.....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Wod was the start of proper decline. However legion proved they could still make good lore. Sadly bfa pushed it back into the deep end again.
    The whole 1 Legion but everyone else is many was the breaking point. Yupp we have infinite titans and infinite worlds of people against 1 group that if you defeat them on their home turf or anything fel saturated enough, they die for good.

  16. #196
    I am Murloc! Chonar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    Better than your timeline where either a woman who allows her husband to rape women and then pretends to champion them in an election, except when they don't vote for her then they are deplorables OR a man who lets racists from BLM shout him off his own stage who would then just as easily get shouted down by Russia, NK, the EU, and China while in office.....
    You seem confused, that happened in the past, not in an alternate timeline. You goofy goober.
    Looking marvelous in velvet.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonar View Post
    You seem confused, that happened in the past, not in an alternate timeline. You goofy goober.
    I don't recall Hillary or Bernie winning and both fit the descriptions I stated.

  18. #198
    TBC especially knowing now the original first expansion was going to be the South Seas.

    It was way too big of a jump regarding scale. The tradition of killing off characters needlessly began here. It swerved into weird space fantasy which has fed into the completely disjointed setting we have now. The story itself was really horrible.

    WoW has NEVER handled the "A story" of Warcraft well. Vanilla did well by staying close to the ground and focusing on telling many stories within a world because that's what the game should have remained: the WORLD of Warcraft, not the main story following WC3.
    Last edited by Wewlad; 2019-05-16 at 07:29 AM.

  19. #199
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    This is not the place for real-world politics. Let's pivot back to the thread's topic and leave off political discussion.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  20. #200
    It has always been bad, but went straight downhill since the retarded time travel storyline in WoD

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