Civilized Originality; On Populism vs. Elitism.

[Felya]

I did not like her. Do I not have a right to not like people? Do I need to think, and feel like you do?

‘I don’t like her’ is a much better argument, than justifying the election in context of elites.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Then you should go with this, and see where it takes you. If you are right, you will get far, and things will get better, if you are wrong expect more populism.

Despite him being viewed as a liberal elite by the fringe left, Biden is already making great strides. Bernie has already lost significant amounts of steam and AOC and Warren are all but irrelevant. Trump's numbers are in the shitter, far below where they were when he was elected despite his loss of the popular vote. When 2020 rolls around and a Democrat candidate is elected, will you stop with these silly arguments proclaiming that the liberal elite hate the proletariat, seeing as how that only ever started with Trump's razor thin electoral college victory.

[Felya]

I didn't like her and the elite in this country deserve what is coming to them. Myself included.

What? Is Trump giving them another tax cut? Ooh... they scared... maybe we will elect a Walton or a Koch... that will scare those elites.

Edit: By the way... you are not elite... how far are we degrading the word? Top 5%? I think elite is less than top 1% and you ain’t it...

[Elegiac]

No, I will not. I do not like Biden, and will not be voting for him if he wins the democratic nomination.

You'd rather Trump continues to be President? Lol.

[Felya]

Let me put it this way... if you run over and kill someone while drunk, then flee to Mexico... Afluenza defense will not work for you. None of us are elite... the elite are talking to the people, we are talking about.

[Felya]

You'd rather Trump continues to be President? Lol.

Who cares? He doesn’t live in a swing state. He is a “coastal elite” from California, his vote doesn’t mater.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Who cares? He doesn’t live in a swing state. He is a “coastal elite” from California, his vote doesn’t mater.

I do like how people like Connal and Theo, the "not conservative" liberals who vomit up every bad conservative talking point, seem to support the electoral college and yet its very existence ensures that their vote means nothing. Most states will always vote one way or another. They go "Oh man we NEED the electoral college or else Cali and New York will decide our president!" when right now, 2-3 swing states with a fraction the population of those states currently decide the president. A popular vote setup wouldn't even mean that Cali and NY decide our prez either, as all those conservatives in Cali would suddenly have a say in the election. Saying that NY and Cali would decide our prez is another useless talking point that doesn't belong in the EC debate.

[NED funded]

I'd post a serious response if I could get up off the floor between laughing fits.

I loved the part where he says that we shouldn't expand air pollution regulations because there are only marginal health gains. Like has this dude lived near a power plant or a factory?

[Milchshake]

How are trade deal stabbing unions in the back?

6 excerpts that explain the Supreme Court’s big anti-union ruling
https://www.vox.com/2018/6/27/175094...-kagan-dissent


Yeah... that NAFTA...

Another way to refute this BS is;

From Nixon to Obama there were 11 elections. The only times Democrats won, were Carter, and Clinton. Who were two southern Dems that were very conservative on fiscal matters.

White working class voters held a plurality this who time.

White working class voters rejected Dems any time they nominated much more progressive and pro labor candidates. Like Dukakis, Mondale, and Stevenson. These guys still won the majority of PoC working class voters.


Basically white working class voters got their gains at the New Deal, then said fuck you to the groups that helped to establish those gains. Dems and Unions.

This process started all the way back in like 1948 when Strom Thurmond got mad at the slighted gains in Civil Rights and left the party.

BAsically we're debating against a bunch of anti-left edgelords that hate civil rights. A bunch of mini Strom Thurmond's. Odds they fantasize about porkin the help like Strom did? I bet after their anarchy they want to rebuild feudal or wierd plantation states.


A bunch of bad faith ethno nationalists, that only want socialism for the herrenvolk.

[breslin]

A rather surprising revelation for the so-called nationalists who are tired of being called racist:

You can care about your country, support higher wages for your people, be for the general welfare of everyone living in your country without being a shit head towards anyone you view as "outsiders".
@Connal as soon as people who are "usupportive of globalism or immigration" stop aligning themselves tribally with people who actively go out and beat brown people to vent their political anger, perhaps they'll stop being seen as racist. If anyone wonders why they're being called certain things, perhaps they should take a good hard look at the people they ardently defend and tribally align with.

"Yeah, I don't support the beating of ethnic citizens" isn't good enough when you pay lip service to those same people all the time when you're not being called out on it.

Yea why would people without college degrees not openly support massive importation of low skill workers to compete with their wages? Must be racism........its not racist for the Rich elite liberal who wants to pay the Mexican less money and displace their own countryman, its clearly racist for the low skill American worker to vote for his own interest.

[Elegiac]

An interesting take on what we have been talking about:

I am not as optimistic as he is, however, because he is missing an important piece on why we are polarizing.

And what's that.

[Elegiac]

A unifying mythology. Noble lie, or Transcendental Truth.

He’s a scientist, not a quack.

[Software]

In before >> "you have to be an intellectual to truly understand Trump" <<.

[Felya]

I do like how people like Connal and Theo, the "not conservative" liberals who vomit up every bad conservative talking point, seem to support the electoral college and yet its very existence ensures that their vote means nothing. Most states will always vote one way or another. They go "Oh man we NEED the electoral college or else Cali and New York will decide our president!" when right now, 2-3 swing states with a fraction the population of those states currently decide the president. A popular vote setup wouldn't even mean that Cali and NY decide our prez either, as all those conservatives in Cali would suddenly have a say in the election. Saying that NY and Cali would decide our prez is another useless talking point that doesn't belong in the EC debate.

For me it’s not even that... how can one call people, whose vote doesn’t mater, an elite. It’s like previous comment... just saying you don’t like Democrats is much better than defining it as being against elites. When a braggart billionaire is complaining about upper middle income elites, the scam should be obvious. It’s changing the meaning of the word elites.

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Yea why would people without college degrees not openly support massive importation of low skill workers to compete with their wages? Must be racism........its not racist for the Rich elite liberal who wants to pay the Mexican less money and displace their own countryman, its clearly racist for the low skill American worker to vote for his own interest.

Uhm... Trump used H1 visas at his property... Hillary didn’t. Every GOP candidate since Reagan was born into wealth. What are companies Trump is subsidizing doing? Moving to Mexico? Are the Waltons now Democrats? The Koch?

[Elegiac]

Yes, and he has 51% hope that things do not fall apart.

But it is interesting that you use mockery as your weapon...

Baseless quackery deserves to be mocked.

What's more interesting is your perpetual lambasting of coastal liberals for their ivory tower attitudes and yet all you've done in this thread is talk down to others about how they'd never understand your enlightened viewpoint.

[Felya]

Because I do not see Trump as an "elite" though that is what he wants to be seen as.

When does Trump want to be seen as elite? When he is bitching about elites on twitter, fox or his never ending campaign rallies? Was it at NYC annual elites dinner, where he bitched about Hillary, than reminiscing about attending the dinner as a child? At what point is the con obvious? What none elite can get away with the shit Trump does? There is no better example of what an elite destroying common folks is, than Trump. Damn... I hope he never quotes Lincoln, like Hillary did... maybe then you will get it.

I see him as so obviously transparent lier, his lies are seen through as just that... He lies and I know he lies, and he is not trying to hide the fact he lies, he is unashamed of who he is.

Oh yeah... you totally see it. A liar who is not shamed by who he is. That’s why he is so transparent and honest... here is a clue, liars are ashamed of the truth. People don’t lie, because they are unashamed. A billionaire from NYC, doesn’t attack people from Arkansas as coastal elites, without shame. He lies because people like you believe it. No mater how often and for how long, about his health, wealth, education and majority of his history is without shame. Just absolutely absurd... unashamed habitual liar. /facepalm

Here is a clue... people without shame are honest. They have no reason to lie that they are the size of an NFL linebacker or that they are worth billions, even though he cheated the tax payer and lied about it. Trump hates him self, which is why he lies about who he is... that and the fact that people like you believe he has no shame. How much has Trump spent on killing enquirer stories? 130k to keep a porn star silent, because no shame? Sounds like Hillary should have just been lying, to who she is honest and you could like her.

He is a know nothing used car salesman who moonlights as a demagogue. Degenerate is a good word also, that Theo uses to describe him.

You forgot that he is the voice of middle America and the rust belt, out to put elites in their place. Don’t forget that part...

I just also think he is the perfect golden... orange... calf for the culture, our collective Avatar, if you will.

Of coarse you do... a loudmouth liar of a billionaire, is a perfect avatar of culture. That’s how everyone in middle America and rust belt are. lol

You will disagree, and that's fine, we will need to agree to disagree because nothing you say will change my mind on this topic, we have very different ways of viewing the world.

Obviously... I’m just a random elite... while Trump lies because he has no shame. Why would I ever convince you? I need to lie as much as Trump and as elite as I am, I don’t have resources to convince you.

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Baseless quackery deserves to be mocked.

What's more interesting is your perpetual lambasting of coastal liberals for their ivory tower attitudes and yet all you've done in this thread is talk down to others about how they'd never understand your enlightened viewpoint.

Trump isn’t elite... it’s the middle income fuckers that are a market crash away from having no income, that are elite. Must be why Obama cut bank bail out in half, put up banking regulations and got ACA passed. While Trump removed all that, gave corporations a 15% tax cut and keeps spending billions on propping up his elite friends with bailouts. Insanity...