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  1. #281
    Legendary! sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    when did Saurfang take on any demon army alone? Orcs need to sleep, undead don't. The assassins could have just tailed Saurfang or if actually was following them, waited until he was tired or simply collapsed from exhaustion. But like all things we are just supposed to forget all logic and cheer at the shiny cinematic.
    in Mount Hyjal he did that, an official cannon achievement now that is mentioned in the cinematic with zappy boi, i did assume (nothing official) he can easily do the same in Broken Shore, we know he was in that battle but we don't know what he did i admit
    but u are right, he is the strongest warrior, but he isn't invincible, they could attacked him while sleeping, but that return back to the fact that they were sent to Thrall not Saurfang in first place, so they didn't plan to attack Saurfang in first place
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  2. #282
    Reading thru 14 pages of comments here.......honestly it feels like a lot of you simply live to complain. Like that's what you guys like to do at this point in your life.

    Complain about BFA, WoW, cinematics, movies, shows....complain complain complain....

    Just fucking stop.

    Cinematic is dope af, if you think otherwise....wtf r u still doing here?

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    when did Saurfang take on any demon army alone? Orcs need to sleep, undead don't. The assassins could have just tailed Saurfang or if actually was following them, waited until he was tired or simply collapsed from exhaustion. But like all things we are just supposed to forget all logic and cheer at the shiny cinematic.
    Basically this, all logic goes out the door. Attack saurfang and thrall at the same time. And why would saurfang randomly start following nameless undead rogues around in nagrand, or even earlier. Hell, just the chance the sylvanas would send assassins after thrall on the same day that saurfang decided to visit him is slim enough, but to arrive at a close enough time that he could track stealthed rogues is quite a large leap. And apparently saurfang now has the ability to track two stealthed rogues at the same time?

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Time to switch sides I guess.
    Looking at your avatar - i guess you play horde, and when that bromance is finally re-uniting you want to quit horde to join manduin? xD
    Omg the wow factions are so f*cked up

    Can't we just stop that faction crap and leave every race make pacts with whoever they feel comfortable with?
    Playing ugly (horde) characters doesn't make you an interesting person!
    Vynd
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  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Wait what? How did you read that?

    She (Sylvanas) should have killed Aggra. Then most of the playerbase would unite behind her.
    ahh ok, I did misread that then. I read that as the playerbase uniting behind Aggra's death

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Techno-Druid View Post
    Thrall actually never cheated, not sure how many times people are going to have to say this. There is no rule, absolutely no rule against magic in mak'gora. It's headcanon.
    If you agree that Mak'gora has no rules against direct use of magic, even though it is specified that shamans can bless weapons then you admit that Mak'gora has no sense in orcish culture because warriors, no matter how great simply have no chances against spellcasters. Game mechanics do not translate into lore. Except for rare cases of cinematics like the one where Grommash was disarmed by Gul'dan in a few seconds or how Thrall easily defeated Garrosh.

    But even ignoring magic rules, elements are sentient and sapient beings so it was 4v1, not only that, he was offered it to wield like a weapon so more than one weapon for Thrall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Also he is not a traitor. Going against a ruler who tries to assassinate you preemptively because you MIGHT oppose them cannot ever be conceived as treason.
    He has betrayed Garrosh, his Warchief.
    M-mom? M-m-mommy, p-please d-d-d-don't kill me. I-I rea-lly am not j-just a lump of cells. Pleasssse Mommy.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    If u agree that Saurfang was really following them, then trying to hide from him was pointless
    And i don't think he is lying, just why did Sylvanas do that in first place is what is crap writing
    the why of it wouldn't really be bad writing... the fact that it is suddenly revealed in this manner is more a case of bad writing.

    Also it's rather odd how he followed them... but they didn't move in till after he had a nice chat with Thrall. As interesting as I'd find Saurfang going on a fall to the dark side so he could get his fight to the death, and remembering he was the one meeting with most of those horde affiliated rogues/assassins/etc for War of Thorns, I really doubt this is going to play out anyway but Thrall now being in on fighting and an eventual Sylvanas is the big bad. They aren't going to introduce apparently Forsaken assassins and associate them with Sylvanas with no extra background information to set up nything except more 'Warchief is evil' storyline.

  8. #288
    Bloodsail Admiral Evaddon's Avatar
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    Its a great cinematic,

    BUT I don't understand Sylvanas motivation for trying to assassinate Thrall?
    ...I've understood everything to a point until now. This act is needless aggression towards a party that withstood no action towards her current plans, or the way she leads The Horde. Why attempt this? Why bring so many different people together against her? Its odd. She has had a plan, a goal, and strategy all this time...why go out of her way like this. It doesn't add up, unless she needs Thrall for some reason?

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    On another note, I LOVED how they made Thrall look so much like Durotan from the Warcraft Movies! I didn't get that comparison with his new model until now...its fantastic! I love it! They've really been hitting the ball out of the park with these Cinematic's....THIS is what the Warcraft movie needs to be, just these Cinematic's no real actors at all!
    Last edited by Evaddon; 2019-05-15 at 06:42 PM.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I don't think Thrall was really waffling here - he was reticent, but you could tell he was mulling over what Saurfang had said. Assassins are also a one-use type of tool, if they don't get the drop on their target then their chances of a successful kill are greatly reduced. Saurfang and Thrall are attacked simultaneously so that neither party can issue a warning to the other - but the assassins were outclassed and taken out. It I were Sylvanas I would've sent more than two, as well; especially for such high-value and powerful targets. But that's more a question of suspension of disbelief than it is one of quality of writing as obviously these two assassins weren't going to be able to kill either of these two main characters - nameless mooks don't generally kill faction/racial leaders.
    You do know that bad writing is having sylvanas send 2 nameless assassins after thrall right? Sylvanas has shown herself to be a highly cunning and ruthless strategist. And now she decides to take out a super powered shaman with nameless assassins? Thats bad writing. She is doing something out of character. She is being uncharacteristically careless with important matters.

  10. #290
    Be Me, Super deadly assassin
    I'm super silent and invisible
    I exploit my enemies weakness and my strikes are lightning fast
    So I'm gonna give all that away and charge at an orc!

    Be my friend, another super deadly assassin.
    We work as a team to double our chances
    We've probably banged at one point
    So I'm gonna not attack the distracted orc and attack the other extremely large orc standing next to him!

    The cinematic was amazing as usual by my god the writing, what ever happened to Ramsay Bolton and "20 good men" kind of writing?

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Fetus Rex View Post
    If you agree that Mak'gora has no rules against direct use of magic, even though it is specified that shamans can bless weapons then you admit that Mak'gora has no sense in orcish culture because warriors, no matter how great simply have no chances against spellcasters. Game mechanics do not translate into lore. Except for rare cases of cinematics like the one where Grommash was disarmed by Gul'dan in a few seconds or how Thrall easily defeated Garrosh.

    But even ignoring magic rules, elements are sentient and sapient beings so it was 4v1, not only that, he was offered it to wield like a weapon so more than one weapon for Thrall.
    there are no established rules that cover all Mak'gora. Cairne v. Garrosh stated blessed weapons. Garrosh v. Thrall (first time around) did not limit weapon amount or armor or even reference blessings in anyway. Garrosh v. Thrall episode 2 seemed to only involved witnesses and that it was 1v1. The orcs, ogres, etc that adhere to Mak'gora baiscally have rules stated for each Mak'gora that occurs so each time would have different rules that are followed.

    Officially there are no explicit rules banning the use of magic. This can also be seen in a duel between a paladin (Blood Knight) and a Shaman where they had to fight with their favored weapon and no armor (but somehow the shaman was allowed a shield) and they had their respective magical abilities allowed. Fact is there really aren't many examples of Mak'gora and even LESS magic users bothering to partake of it. There are like 3 canon entities that have undergone Mak'gora and had access to magic, two of which fought each other and then Thrall. "but what about Gul'dan?!" Movie was not canon, that appearance of Guldan fighting was just filling screen time... as was Thrall's depiction in the movie.

  12. #292
    I mean if we didn't know that her plan involves death and a lot of Stormwind zombies, I'd have started buying in the Lelouch theory.

  13. #293
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool319 View Post
    You do know that bad writing is having sylvanas send 2 nameless assassins after thrall right? Sylvanas has shown herself to be a highly cunning and ruthless strategist. And now she decides to take out a super powered shaman with nameless assassins? Thats bad writing. She is doing something out of character. She is being uncharacteristically careless with important matters.
    Thrall is just a mortal - like her being susceptible to being shot in the face, he's susceptible to being poisoned and/or perforated by multiple Nightblades. It is also not as if she could've sent an entire detachment of Deathstalkers without showing her hand, as well. Could she have done it differently or better? Sure. But it isn't necessary, and two assassins already in position are likely more than enough to take out an unaware Thrall. But not both Saurfang and Thrall, as it happened, and as I said before it isn't as if this was the point, either.

    The story is written to get a narrative from point A to point B, not to pursue a path that best represents what any one reader wants of it. Perhaps there were more assassins and they didn't survive the rigors of Outland, or perhaps those two were just the first of many to be dispatched. We can't really know that either way.
    "The finest line of poetry ever uttered in the history of this whole damn country was said by Canada Bill Jones in 1853, in Baton Rouge, while he was being robbed blind in a crooked game of Faro. George Devol, who was, like Canada Bill, not a man who was averse to fleecing the odd sucker, drew Bill aside and asked him if he couldn't see that the game was crooked. And Canada Bill sighed, and shrugged his shoulders, and said, 'I know. But it's the only game in town.' And he went back to the game." -- Neil Gaiman, "American Gods"

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubbl3 View Post
    Don't you get it? Blizz needs to hammer it down that Sylvanas is most evil ever. I think next patch Nozdormu will come and tell us that he double checked all timelines and that our Sylvanas is the worst there ever will be in all time lines ever. And then Sargeras will start a new crusade specifically against Sylvanas this time. :P
    Make it AU Sargeras and I'm in.


    Quote Originally Posted by Techno-Druid View Post
    Thrall actually never cheated, not sure how many times people are going to have to say this. There is no rule, absolutely no rule against magic in mak'gora. It's headcanon.
    There is a rule against getting help from other people though. And Shamanistic magic, as explicitly described by Blizzard on their page, is all about getting aid from the Elementals.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes View Post
    there are no established rules that cover all Mak'gora. Cairne v. Garrosh stated blessed weapons. Garrosh v. Thrall (first time around) did not limit weapon amount or armor or even reference blessings in anyway. Garrosh v. Thrall episode 2 seemed to only involved witnesses and that it was 1v1. The orcs, ogres, etc that adhere to Mak'gora baiscally have rules stated for each Mak'gora that occurs so each time would have different rules that are followed.

    Officially there are no explicit rules banning the use of magic. This can also be seen in a duel between a paladin (Blood Knight) and a Shaman where they had to fight with their favored weapon and no armor (but somehow the shaman was allowed a shield) and they had their respective magical abilities allowed. Fact is there really aren't many examples of Mak'gora and even LESS magic users bothering to partake of it. There are like 3 canon entities that have undergone Mak'gora and had access to magic, two of which fought each other and then Thrall. "but what about Gul'dan?!" Movie was not canon, that appearance of Guldan fighting was just filling screen time... as was Thrall's depiction in the movie.
    First time was in comic and in game event, it was nonsense. They were bolting each other. In a story telling neither of them would survive 10 seconds of it.

    And Garrosh would accept Mak'Gora with magic turned on? I doubt it. He was cocky but not stupid.

    That comic Mak'Gora was Mak'gora in name only. Said blood elf paladin didn't care about the rules, didn't even listen to them and lashed out on the female orc. I gues she too didn't care considering she has spared him afterwards. Also body armor is not the same as shield but that's technicality.

    Still, Thrall was using sentient and sapient entities.

    Mak'gora with magic allowed has no sense in orcish culture. All clans would be ruled by magic users with no warrior ever having a chance to challenge the rule. That's not very honorable.
    M-mom? M-m-mommy, p-please d-d-d-don't kill me. I-I rea-lly am not j-just a lump of cells. Pleasssse Mommy.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Also he is not a traitor. Going against a ruler who tries to assassinate you preemptively because you MIGHT oppose them cannot ever be conceived as treason.
    Members of the Horde are literally tools of the Warchief. Sylvanas has the right to use Aggra's bones as toothpicks. Blame Thrall for not actually reforming the Horde and instead resting on his laurels after he just added "New" to the name.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool319 View Post
    You do know that bad writing is having sylvanas send 2 nameless assassins after thrall right? Sylvanas has shown herself to be a highly cunning and ruthless strategist. And now she decides to take out a super powered shaman with nameless assassins? Thats bad writing. She is doing something out of character. She is being uncharacteristically careless with important matters.
    also, typically, hasn't Sylvanas been abusing her dark rangers for such matters? Rather than apaprently throw away chumps (unless there's some story about those would be assassin's... like was that V cut something significant or just whatever...)

    In and of itself it's not 'bad' except for the obvious part where they're clearly leaving out most the story to show these little snippets.

    Someone might point out a certain individual who personally met with a wide array of assassins and cutthroats and employed such people in an elaborate plan... but that level of storytelling hasn't been present in WoW for awhile and likely will only remain in various theorizers' "lore fix" ideas.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Thrall is just a mortal - like her being susceptible to being shot in the face, he's susceptible to being poisoned and/or perforated by multiple Nightblades. It is also not as if she could've sent an entire detachment of Deathstalkers without showing her hand, as well. Could she have done it differently or better? Sure. But it isn't necessary, and two assassins already in position are likely more than enough to take out an unaware Thrall. But not both Saurfang and Thrall, as it happened, and as I said before it isn't as if this was the point, either.

    The story is written to get a narrative from point A to point B, not to pursue a path that best represents what any one reader wants of it. Perhaps there were more assassins and they didn't survive the rigors of Outland, or perhaps those two were just the first of many to be dispatched. We can't really know that either way.
    But the idiocy is not in the number of assassins. It's with them attacking only after Saurfang and Thrall are at the same spot. They had an opportunity to attack Saurfang earlier and they definitely could have waited to see if Thrall would join Saurfang and if not, attack him when he was alone. The fact that they made a completely retarded choice to move the narrative does not suddenly not make this bad writing. When characters do something completely out of character just so the narrative can move forward, that is the definition of bad writing.

  19. #299
    Visually stunning but what the hell

    There is no coming back from "Not garrosh 2.0" now. Sylvanas was defendable. I could have accepted that the assasins went after Saurfang (Oh no sylvanas is evil help us. Yeah but it was you who planned the war of thorns and butchered innocents), but Thrall? Like what the hell? Does she even remember who invited them into the horde to begin with?
    Oh no! My limitless wealth and power is all I have! Boohoo, send me sympathy money

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Shefu View Post
    Reading thru 14 pages of comments here.......honestly it feels like a lot of you simply live to complain. Like that's what you guys like to do at this point in your life.

    Complain about BFA, WoW, cinematics, movies, shows....complain complain complain....

    Just fucking stop.

    Cinematic is dope af, if you think otherwise....wtf r u still doing here?
    You have no authority to tell anyone to stop complaining. If you don't want to see people complaining and disagreeing with your totally objective view that the cinematic is dope, you can make a blog dedicated to praising Blizzard to high heaven.


    Quote Originally Posted by Evaddon View Post
    Its a great cinematic,

    BUT I don't understand Sylvanas motivation for trying to assassinate Thrall?
    ...I've understood everything to a point until now. This act is needless aggression towards a party that withstood no action towards her current plans, or the way she leads The Horde. Why attempt this? Why bring so many different people together against her? Its odd. She has had a plan, a goal, and strategy all this time...why go out of her way like this. [B][I]It doesn't add up, unless she needs Thrall for some reason?
    Her motivation throughout this entire expansion is simply doing lolevil things for the sake of lolevil. This is perfectly in character.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

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