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  1. #481
    Immortal Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Considering his track record very unlikely though.
    what track record? the time he left the crippling depression behind he was fine.

  2. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    It was exactly what the Orcs and the Tauren didn't have in common that hearkened Thrall to unify with them - Thrall tells Grom that the Tauren represent many of the things that the Orcish Horde needed to recapture, things that they didn't possess since the formation of the Horde back on Draenor. As for the Darkspear, this was more an alliance out of mutual necessity than one formed of shared principles - both sides needed one another. I think you're allowing a nostalgic view of WC3 to color your perception of the Horde's essential nature at its formation.
    While all this is valid in in-game lore, when it comes to world building what made the WC3 Horde make sense was that it was a collection of people that had similar methods of governance. Tauren, Orcs and Trolls all were clan based people led by chieftains. Their visual themes were also similar if distinct; placing a tauren, orc and troll building in the same town will not be jarring. Add a Forsaken building and it will stick like a sore thump. All three races have a similar spirituality; they are all animists that use shaman (or the witch doctors/shadow hunters who are fairly shaman like with a touch of voodoo). Yes they have significant differences as well (foremost among them imo the fact that neither Tauren or Trolls treat their non-military with any disdain)

  3. #483
    The easiest solution, @Ophenia, would be just to have Saurfang be lying. It solves a whole lot of plot holes immediately - Saurfang didn't magically track invisible sleepless rogues, but rather he was the one tracked and was aware of it, hence going to Thrall to show him that the Horde is now zombies trying to off him. We know Saurfang can lie. He lied to Memeboi about everything in Old Soldier as his true plan was to commit suicide so that Anduin could defeat the Horde after all, and his whole plan in A Good War was based heavily on deception. Now he'd be making a white lie to get what he sees as the representation of 'his' Horde back on his side.

    This won't happen, of course, but it's the easiest fix.
    @Aucald

    Nymrohd summarized what I was getting at regarding the WC3 Kalimdor Horde races and how many traits they have in common vs. the following races. I think most of the rest are things we're not going anywhere on, and off-topic anyway, past the part about Sylvanas sending the assassins, which I cover up top.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  4. #484
    Just to make a passing comment here, I thought the "no one's savior" line was amusing

    I couldn't tell if that was a very subtle meta reference to the Green Jesus memes out there (more likely) and how high of a pedestal he gets put on by the story and some of the community's perception of him

    Or a reference to the Deathwing raid which had the savior of azeroth title (less likely), which he played the biggest part in

    Or both /shrug Don't bother reading into my post, I just think the word choice there was an intentional meta thing
    Last edited by MrExcelion; 2019-05-16 at 08:36 AM.

  5. #485
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The easiest solution, @Ophenia, would be just to have Saurfang be lying. It solves a whole lot of plot holes immediately - Saurfang didn't magically track invisible sleepless rogues, but rather he was the one tracked and was aware of it, hence going to Thrall to show him that the Horde is now zombies trying to off him. We know Saurfang can lie. He lied to Memeboi about everything in Old Soldier as his true plan was to commit suicide so that Anduin could defeat the Horde after all, and his whole plan in A Good War was based heavily on deception. Now he'd be making a white lie to get what he sees as the representation of 'his' Horde back on his side.

    This won't happen, of course, but it's the easiest fix.
    Yeah that's my personal theory, "I followed them huehuehuehue" seems way too easy. But with Blizzard's recent writing, I can't imagine them putting a lie in Honorfang's CGI story. That would also be admitting that Saurfang knowingly brought two Rogues, who were solely after him, right to Thrall's (and his family) home, putting them at risk of instant death and forcing Thrall to participate in this war. Seems very selfish of him, even more considering that when Sylvanas will notice Thrall in the rebellion's army, she will not hesitate one second to murder Thrall's child just to make him pay.

    That's why I'm trying to think about other possibilities. But I know I'm delusional, as we all were when I-don't-know-who said there was a huge unexpected twist before Teldrassil's burning.

    Edit: But I'm 100% happy that Saurfang is probably not the most trustworthy person out there, as even Thrall doesn't trust him when he asks where his family is.

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by MrExcelion View Post
    Just to make a passing comment here, I thought the "no one's savior" line was amusing

    I couldn't tell if that was a very subtle meta reference to the Green Jesus memes out there (more likely) and how high of a pedestal he gets put on by the story and some of the community's perception of him

    Or a reference to the Deathwing raid which had the savior of azeroth title (less likely), which he played the biggest part in

    Or both /shrug Don't bother reading into my post, I just think the word choice there was an intentional meta thing
    I mean, the memes came because they were valid references to things in game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    The easiest solution, @Ophenia, would be just to have Saurfang be lying. It solves a whole lot of plot holes immediately - Saurfang didn't magically track invisible sleepless rogues, but rather he was the one tracked and was aware of it, hence going to Thrall to show him that the Horde is now zombies trying to off him.
    Tbh it makes sense you'd be able to follow Forsaken rogues. By their smell. Heck I don't even understand how they can ever hide.

  7. #487
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    what track record? the time he left the crippling depression behind he was fine.
    No the time he couldn't catch sneaky bastards, in a good war.

    I really hope he used the situation to his advantage makes him more rounded as a character.

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Tbh it makes sense you'd be able to follow Forsaken rogues. By their smell. Heck I don't even understand how they can ever hide.
    They're rogues, I figure putting some scented perfumes like lavender and aloe vera comes in their instructions right after loudly stomping as you charge your target and his ally in broad daylight.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    They're rogues, I figure putting some scented perfumes like lavender and aloe vera comes in their instructions right after loudly stomping as you charge your target and his ally in broad daylight.
    Also learning how to yell "SNEAK ATTACK" every time you backstab someone.

    But really, I don't think you can hide corpse smell that easily. Their best bet would be to always carry a few skunks on them and just let them loose before they appear.

  10. #490
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Also learning how to yell "SNEAK ATTACK" every time you backstab someone.

    But really, I don't think you can hide corpse smell that easily. Their best bet would be to always carry a few skunks on them and just let them loose before they appear.
    Which makes the War of Thorns even more insulting, if you think about it.

  11. #491
    I am Murloc! Chonar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Also learning how to yell "SNEAK ATTACK" every time you backstab someone.

    But really, I don't think you can hide corpse smell that easily. Their best bet would be to always carry a few skunks on them and just let them loose before they appear.
    Ssssneaky Pete!
    If World of Warcraft has taught me anything, it's that teaching a crowd something is far harder than teaching individuals.

  12. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    But really, I don't think you can hide corpse smell that easily. Their best bet would be to always carry a few skunks on them and just let them loose before they appear.
    Alliance soldiers trying to make sense of sudden appearance of skunk smells wherever they go would be a funny thing to witness.

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Also learning how to yell "SNEAK ATTACK" every time you backstab someone.

    But really, I don't think you can hide corpse smell that easily. Their best bet would be to always carry a few skunks on them and just let them loose before they appear.
    Sneaky Pete is actually the head of Sylvanas' secret services and those guys in the cinematic were his acolytes.

    We can at least temporarily cover for the smell of a dead body and the Forsaken have had fifteen years for this stuff.

    @Nathasil

    It was already insulting by the time we were told the Horde were able to ambush a race that can all go invisible in their home turf on their home turf.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  14. #494
    So it's now canon that Rogues are actually invisible, not just... really sneaky?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  15. #495
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    So it's now canon that Rogues are actually invisible, not just... really sneaky?
    It is both, invisible and sneaky. I mean it does make sense, considering that rogues do go unseen through open terrain all the time.

  16. #496
    Immortal Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    No the time he couldn't catch sneaky bastards, in a good war.

    I really hope he used the situation to his advantage makes him more rounded as a character.
    with fail come success, there also totally different scenarios, i bet night elves n their lands, at night, are better stealth than undeads at daylight in his homeworld.

  17. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    with fail come success, there also totally different scenarios, i bet night elves n their lands, at night, are better stealth than undeads at daylight in his homeworld.
    It happened not only in ashenvale,but orgrimmar as well

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by Dudas View Post
    Imagine being a forsaken main for 15 years. Now try to play this expansion as a forsaken main. See how you feel about the "story".
    How about a Zandalari helping Jaina? A Kul Tiran helping Thrall? It's a mess. Sylvanas is the scapegoat they use to move this "plot" along. It's always her fault. She did this, done that, killed those, plotted that... I love how this "writing" still gets greenlighted at Blizz. They prolly don't even care anymore. Maybe next time we'll see Thrall with a dagger-inflicted wound? To keep the MoP experience legit, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    would be just to have Saurfang be lying. It solves a whole lot of plot holes immediately
    What's that? An interesting, not expected and very possible storyline? Nah, can't have those around here. Saurfang would never lie, he's too HONORED to do that. Evil Sylvanas is at fault always.
    Last edited by Senel; 2019-05-16 at 09:38 AM.

  19. #499
    Immortal Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    It happened not only in ashenvale,but orgrimmar as well
    who have more places to hide than a open field

    he was not expecting then there too, nothing to be prepare for.

  20. #500
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    It is both, invisible and sneaky. I mean it does make sense, considering that rogues do go unseen through open terrain all the time.
    I always thought that was a gameplay-lore separation thing. Or suspension of disbelief.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

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