[Spoilers] Safe Haven Cinematic

[Aucald]

The Vindicators and Blood Knights are, save for a very short period in TBC, which is now like a fifth or a tenth of the runtime of the Blood Knights, extremely similar, and are in turn extremely similar to paladins, because they represent an archetype. They have a different history, cultural context and ethos, but they're nevertheless a point of similarity where these races meet, something emphasized in the Blood Knights' whole turn being to liken themselves more to classical paladins and later repaying the draenei by helping out on AU Draenor. This works because the two fulfil analogous roles in their cultures and represent similar themes and aesthetics. They would not be able to do the same with say, a group of shamans or warlocks or what have you. The same thing applies to the tauren - orc comparison. That they have differences doesn't mean they don't have heavy similarities and subsequently that races that are more similar to each other make for a more logical cohesive whole bound by ideology than ones that have far fewer things in common.

I heartily disagree with that, more than I can easily explain. "A different history, cultural context, and ethos" and yet "a point of similarity" to put it your own words is enough to make them extremely similar, or even representative of an archetype? The thing the Blood Knights and Vindicators truly share, in the context of WoW, was a common enemy: the Burning Legion and specifically Kil'jaeden. It is that shared animus that gives them common cause at the close of TBC, but aside from that you'd be hard-pressed to find two groups with less in common with one another. Not to mention that the Blood Knight's history of imprisoning and forcibly siphoning the Light away from one of the Naaru is likely enough to make your standard Vindicator be sick to the stomach. As for the roles they serve in their culture, that's seems like a pretty substantial leap. We know the Vindicators are the protectors of the Draenei, and that their elite even serve as the honor-guard for Velen himself. The Blood Knights are part of the Thalassian military but don't seem to have anywhere near the acclaim as the Vindicators among the Draenei do - in point of fact their legacy is streaked with distrust, and many Sindorei seem them as haughty or aloof. The deeper you peer into the specifics of all these things, the more and more differences and distinctions you find, and the argument for shared similarity becomes harder and harder to justify.

[Techno-Druid]

and it get worse when blizzard itself try to force the dichotomy that hard

I will still say that putting the other half as face of the faction was the big mistake that led us to this.

Honestly Forsaken, night elves, blood elves and draenei should all have been neutral factions. Forsaken and night elves are too fundamentally different from either the Horde or Alliance while the (Post-TBC) blood elves and draenei just don't have a motivation to stay with their respective factions.

[Super Dickmann]

I heartily disagree with that, more than I can easily explain. "A different history, cultural context, and ethos" and yet "a point of similarity" to put it your own words is enough to make them extremely similar, or even representative of an archetype? The thing the Blood Knights and Vindicators truly share, in the context of WoW, was a common enemy: the Burning Legion and specifically Kil'jaeden. It is that shared animus that gives them common cause at the close of TBC, but aside from that you'd be hard-pressed to find two groups with less in common with one another. Not to mention that the Blood Knight's history of imprisoning and forcibly siphoning the Light away from one of the Naaru is likely enough to make your standard Vindicator be sick to the stomach. As for the roles they serve in their culture, that's seems like a pretty substantial leap. We know the Vindicators are the protectors of the Draenei, and that their elite even serve as the honor-guard for Velen himself. The Blood Knights are part of the Thalassian military but don't seem to have anywhere near the acclaim as the Vindicators among the Draenei do - in point of fact their legacy is streaked with distrust, and many Sindorei seem them as haughty or aloof. The deeper you peer into the specifics of all these things, the more and more differences and distinctions you find, and the argument for shared similarity becomes harder and harder to justify.

You would have a case to make if this were still TBC, where the Blood Knights really were fundamentally different from all other paladin orders, but this is no longer the case. Now the most different 'paladins' are the Sunwalkers, if only because for them it really is just a gameplay mechanic and they share zero of the themes others of the paladin class do.

At present however, yes, both BKs and vindicators are part of a fantasy paladin archetype. Warriors in heavy armor standing for faith, justice and benevolence, the exact same kind of faith, justice and benevolence at that, who's role is as protectors of the people. Their difference is one of backstory and aesthetic, but contrary to what you say, the draenei and M'uru forgiving the BKs for that whole siphoning Light thing is what's formative to the blood knights and compels to become more like all other paladins. They don't just share an enemy but an ethos, a religion who's faith therein is triggered by the same class of being and is carried out in the same way. Their cultural role is also analogous, since the bits about Farstriders mistrusting them and them being seen as enforcers of the state to whom the guards defer but the populace fears has also been done away with post-TBC.

In fact, looking at it now, I kind of regret using them as an example, because they're far more similar than shamans are even between orcish clans. The Blood Knights really were done dirty.

[Syegfryed]

Honestly Forsaken, night elves, blood elves and draenei should all have been neutral factions. Forsaken and night elves are too fundamentally different from either the Horde or Alliance while the (Post-TBC) blood elves and draenei just don't have a motivation to stay with their respective factions.

they joining was not rly the big problem, this could be handle it

the problem is making then usurp the faction, like they are marjory, selling then as face of the faction, but they are the options to people who don't like the horde theme, not the other way around.

[MatthiasVonTzeskagrad]

Honestly Forsaken, night elves, blood elves and draenei should all have been neutral factions. Forsaken and night elves are too fundamentally different from either the Horde or Alliance while the (Post-TBC) blood elves and draenei just don't have a motivation to stay with their respective factions.

I have it hard to imagine any universe where MU Draenei would want to work with orcs in general.
It's something that only works with the Earthen Ring because no Earthen Ring Shaman resembles the orcish raiders who became the genocidal Horde, and in fact tend to be openly against it for being against balance.

[Aucald]

You would have a case to make if this were still TBC, where the Blood Knights really were fundamentally different from all other paladin orders, but this is no longer the case. Now the most different 'paladins' are the Sunwalkers, if only because for them it really is just a gameplay mechanic and they share zero of the themes others of the paladin class do.

That's kind of my underlying point - all the Paladin orders are already different from one another. The Vindicators are not the post-TBC Blood Knights are not the Sunwalkers are not the Silver Hand. You're most focused on the most degree of difference while discounting the degrees of difference already present. Even with the Blood Knights having lost the distinction of "stealing the Light" from M'uru, the legacy of their actions lives on with the modern order still defined by atoning for that formative sin, even to this day.

At present however, yes, both BKs and vindicators are part of a fantasy paladin archetype. Warriors in heavy armor standing for faith, justice and benevolence, the exact same kind of faith, justice and benevolence at that, who's role is as protectors of the people. Their difference is one of backstory and aesthetic, but contrary to what you say, the draenei and M'uru forgiving the BKs for that whole siphoning Light thing is what's formative to the blood knights and compels to become more like all other paladins. They don't just share an enemy but an ethos, a religion who's faith therein is triggered by the same class of being and is carried out in the same way. Their cultural role is also analogous, since the bits about Farstriders mistrusting them and them being seen as enforcers of the state to whom the guards defer but the populace fears has also been done away with post-TBC.

In fact, looking at it now, I kind of regret using them as an example, because they're far more similar than shamans are even between orcish clans. The Blood Knights really were done dirty.

"Part of a fantasy paladin archetype," yes; most especially in the form of exploring different aspects of that archetypal representation. The Paladin as sacred protector, the Paladin as outcast zealot, the Paladin as grizzled veteran, and the Paladin as the spiritual voyager. Velen "forgiving" the Blood Knights doesn't absolve them of what they've done, as Liadrin herself is at pains to establish, and the Blood Knights still work to change their original depiction and be seen as more than undeserving thieves of the Light. They don't share a religion, either; what the Vindicators believe of the Light is not the same as the Church of the Light, or the same as the Light of Elune that Kaldorei Priests (and possibly Paladins now) believe in. The Vindicators have long worshiped the Light incarnate in the Naaru who saved them - venerating them almost as gods. The Church of the Light takes a more philosophic path, seeing the Light as the essence of unity binding all things. The Kaldorei have Elune as their god-figure, whereas the Tauren have An'she. These aren't similar religions even though they share some basic tenets of behavior or decorum, and you don't see or hear of Silver Hand Paladins paying homage to the Naaru (save for Turalyon for personal reasons of his own).

I also prefer the original story of the Blood Knights, as I felt it also made them even more uniquely Sin'dorei - but it is not as if that aspect of their story has been washed away, either.

[Doffen]

Just watched it again. And it struck me. What if Azeroth is taken by the old gods. And Outland will be the planet we will call home for the next expansion. Then they could have remastered all the zones in Outland at the same time. And the story forward is that we get help from all over the galaxy to strike back on the Old God influenced world of Azeroth. Introducing Ethereals as new playable race.

Or is Outland so scared that it's too unstable?

Anyway, I got a nice name for the expansion after the next if my too good to be true speculation becomes true:

World of Warcraft: Stormwind Strikes Back.

[Super Dickmann]

That's kind of my underlying point - all the Paladin orders are already different from one another. The Vindicators are not the post-TBC Blood Knights are not the Sunwalkers are not the Silver Hand. You're most focused on the most degree of difference while discounting the degrees of difference already present. Even with the Blood Knights having lost the distinction of "stealing the Light" from M'uru, the legacy of their actions lives on with the modern order still defined by atoning for that formative sin, even to this day.

That is true, but does not contradict what I'm saying as regards how these differences are far fewer than they are between radically different cultures, some of which have no analogue to paladins or knights of any kind. Blood Knights and Vindicators have a great deal in common, that they vary by backstory and how this paints their actions doesn't mean these similarities aren't there.

"Part of a fantasy paladin archetype," yes; most especially in the form of exploring different aspects of that archetypal representation. The Paladin as sacred protector, the Paladin as outcast zealot, the Paladin as grizzled veteran, and the Paladin as the spiritual voyager. Velen "forgiving" the Blood Knights doesn't absolve them of what they've done, as Liadrin herself is at pains to establish, and the Blood Knights still work to change their original depiction and be seen as more than undeserving thieves of the Light. They don't share a religion, either; what the Vindicators believe of the Light is not the same as the Church of the Light, or the same as the Light of Elune that Kaldorei Priests (and possibly Paladins now) believe in. The Vindicators have long worshiped the Light incarnate in the Naaru who saved them - venerating them almost as gods. The Church of the Light takes a more philosophic path, seeing the Light as the essence of unity binding all things. The Kaldorei have Elune as their god-figure, whereas the Tauren have An'she. These aren't similar religions even though they share some basic tenets of behavior or decorum, and you don't see or hear of Silver Hand Paladins paying homage to the Naaru (save for Turalyon for personal reasons of his own).

The Blood Knights do follow the naaru, after all M'uru is their redeemer figure, and emulate the draenei's example after the Sunwell, changing from their maltheistic TBC version. Their means of repentance is to actually be the knights in shining armor that they were previously mockeries of. Additionally, the types of paladins covered therein are not done on a racial basis, as in, the vindicators and the BKs are fundamentally the same kind of paladin. They are different from adherents of Elune, as that's a whole separate religion and to an extent the church, but they're quite similar to one another. That both these similarities and their differences exist are what gives them room to play off of each other. It's not a bad thing, even if I have personal misgivings about the belves' whole post-TBC trajectory, but it's still factually the case. They are alike, in that one can aspire to the example of the other and identify with them yet different enough that they maintain a distinct flavor when interacting.

Theoretically at least, in practice Liadrin is the most boring woman alive, but that's another topic entirely.

[Aucald]

That is true, but does not contradict what I'm saying as regards how these differences are far fewer than they are between radically different cultures, some of which have no analogue to paladins or knights of any kind. Blood Knights and Vindicators have a great deal in common, that they vary by backstory and how this paints their actions doesn't mean these similarities aren't there.

It also doesn't mean that those similarities are all they have.

The Blood Knights do follow the naaru, after all M'uru is their redeemer figure, and emulate the draenei's example after the Sunwell, changing from their maltheistic TBC version. Their means of repentance is to actually be the knights in shining armor that they were previously mockeries of. Additionally, the types of paladins covered therein are not done on a racial basis, as in, the vindicators and the BKs are fundamentally the same kind of paladin. They are different from adherents of Elune, as that's a whole separate religion and to an extent the church, but they're quite similar to one another. That both these similarities and their differences exist are what gives them room to play off of each other. It's not a bad thing, even if I have personal misgivings about the belves' whole post-TBC trajectory, but it's still factually the case. They are alike, in that one can aspire to the example of the other and identify with them yet different enough that they maintain a distinct flavor when interacting.

Theoretically at least, in practice Liadrin is the most boring woman alive, but that's another topic entirely.

The Blood Knights are beholden to the Sunwell, not the Naaru - they honor M'uru's sacrifice by protecting the Sunwell and keeping it from being befouled once more. But you see no Naaru iconography or elements in their aesthetics, even today keeping with the dark crimson and flame motifs (blood and veneration of the sun). The Vindicators by contrast keep with the crystalline and white/purple motifs that clearly echo the design and composition of the Naaru, themselves crystalline entities. I don't think any Paladin is really "fundamentally the same kind of Paladin" even among the same orders, either; Uther is not Turalyon is not Arthas even in the context of their faith and approach to the Light. This is kind of part and parcel of what it is to be a Paladin in the sense of the class - Mages actually bare a closer similarity to one another they tend to draw from the same sources of learning and power. The connection to the Light is a deeply personal and thus almost unique manifestation, which further differentiates Paladins from one another in the lore, above and beyond belonging to different orders or cultures.

[Sondrelk]

Just watched it again. And it struck me. What if Azeroth is taken by the old gods. And Outland will be the planet we will call home for the next expansion. Then they could have remastered all the zones in Outland at the same time. And the story forward is that we get help from all over the galaxy to strike back on the Old God influenced world of Azeroth. Introducing Ethereals as new playable race.

Or is Outland so scared that it's too unstable?

Anyway, I got a nice name for the expansion after the next if my too good to be true speculation becomes true:

World of Warcraft: Stormwind Strikes Back.

I am sorry to be a killjoy here, but Blizzard will never have an expansion, or begnning for that matter include the world being destroyed, or becoming uninhabitable.
It is really hte purest essence of the old adage of "You think you want it, but you don't"

Beyond hte simple narrative fact that it would be problematic to visualize it in a non-moroninc way in an MMO, how would it work in practice, would you have ot travel to a Bronze dragon portal every time you want to go back to Ironforge to upgrade your heirlooms, or fish up that elusive fish for the achievement? I would assume not, given Blizz has seemingly entirely caved on making travel an integrated part of the game after years of complaining. I guess we just suspend our disbelief every time we use a mage portal, which would be a new low in non-immersive game design.

There is also the pedantic fact that with the exception of MoP and Wod which gave both the new race and class in the same expansion and nothing in the next, we have an unbroken string of New race>New class>New race etc.
Getting Ethereals as a new race after BfA would completely break with that tradition.

[Super Dickmann]

It also doesn't mean that those similarities are all they have..

That was never my point as regards the Kalimdor Horde races, though admittedly with the BKs and Vindicators it's a very thin line. Just that the heavy similarities play a large role in their interaction and team-ups and make certain blocs more plausible than others.

The Blood Knights are beholden to the Sunwell, not the Naaru - they honor M'uru's sacrifice by protecting the Sunwell and keeping it from being befouled once more. But you see no Naaru iconography or elements in their aesthetics, even today keeping with the dark crimson and flame motifs (blood and veneration of the sun). The Vindicators by contrast keep with the crystalline and white/purple motifs that clearly echo the design and composition of the Naaru, themselves crystalline entities. I don't think any Paladin is really "fundamentally the same kind of Paladin" even among the same orders, either; Uther is not Turalyon is not Arthas even in the context of their faith and approach to the Light. This is kind of part and parcel of what it is to be a Paladin in the sense of the class - Mages actually bare a closer similarity to one another they tend to draw from the same sources of learning and power. The connection to the Light is a deeply personal and thus almost unique manifestation, which further differentiates Paladins from one another in the lore, above and beyond belonging to different orders or cultures.

They do differ aesthetically, which I acknowledged, but the blood elves do acknowledge the naaru's role as well as an extension of the Sunwell, half of the Sunwell even originates from there after all. They have their own cultural baggage past that, but their repentance is one of emulation. Where I disagree with you is that these individual differences in interpretation of the Light are relevant largely on a character to character basis and not organization to organization, as the ethos of the group is in this case pretty close. I.e there's more difference between Uther, Tirion and Fordring then there is between the established tenets of the BKs and the vindicators.

As for similarities, mages are in a weird situation where they shouldn't be homogenous since you have a lot of different cities and traditions, but they all end up serving the mighty city of human potential anyway. In any case beside the point though since people with mages being able to better align on account of their shared interest of the arcane is another example of what I'm getting at.

[Aucald]

They do differ aesthetically, which I acknowledged, but the blood elves do acknowledge the naaru's role as well as an extension of the Sunwell, half of the Sunwell even originates from there after all. They have their own cultural baggage past that, but their repentance is one of emulation. Where I disagree with you is that these individual differences in interpretation of the Light are relevant largely on a character to character basis and not organization to organization, as the ethos of the group is in this case pretty close. I.e there's more difference between Uther, Tirion and Fordring then there is between the established tenets of the BKs and the vindicators.

If there is a world of difference between individual Paladins of the Silver Hand, imagine the breadth of distance between any of them and Maraad, Boros, or Divinius? Imagine the distance between any of those Vindicators and Liadrin, Mehlar Dawnblade, or Ashra Valandril. I don't think even the different ethoi of the Paladin orders bear a great deal of similarity, and the uniqueness that every Paladin is shown to have within a given ethos increases that distance exponentially.

As for similarities, mages are in a weird situation where they shouldn't be homogenous since you have a lot of different cities and traditions, but they all end up serving the mighty city of human potential anyway. In any case beside the point though since people with mages being able to better align on account of their shared interest of the arcane is another example of what I'm getting at.

All modern Mages, save for the Arcanitals of Trollkind, kind of pull their learning from the Ancient Night Elven empire - that is what the core of Dalaran is formed around, as their knowledge stems from the High Elves, who were the Highborne of that empire long ago. Ditto the Nightborne, who are also Highborne, and the Shen'dralar themselves. The only group that would be tacitly outside the scope of the Ancient Night Elven empire's schools of Arcane thought would be the Trolls. Perhaps "Night Elven potential" is the better meme in this case.

[Super Dickmann]

If there is a world of difference between individual Paladins of the Silver Hand, imagine the breadth of distance between any of them and Maraad, Boros, or Divinius? Imagine the distance between any of those Vindicators and Liadrin, Mehlar Dawnblade, or Ashra Valandril. I don't think even the different ethoi of the Paladin orders bear a great deal of similarity, and the uniqueness that every Paladin is shown to have within a given ethos increases that distance exponentially.

That is theoretically the case, but functionally isn't, because the Blood Knights might as well be human paladins trapped in elven bodies and Liadrin is, as mentioned, the most boring woman alive. If you exchanged all of Liadrin's line with any other Blood Knight's or hell, with any Vindicator and just switched out any reference to elves or the Horde with the equivalent, no one would spot the least bit of a difference. Ashra is a bit better in this regard since he actually got to build a personality in the comic, but the rest are incorrigible. The trio in the Hand of Argus are arguably more different from one another than their organisation is from the Blood Knights.

All modern Mages, save for the Arcanitals of Trollkind, kind of pull their learning from the Ancient Night Elven empire - that is what the core of Dalaran is formed around, as their knowledge stems from the High Elves, who were the Highborne of that empire long ago. Ditto the Nightborne, who are also Highborne, and the Shen'dralar themselves. The only group that would be tacitly outside the scope of the Ancient Night Elven empire's schools of Arcane thought would be the Trolls. Perhaps "Night Elven potential" is the better meme in this case.

That'd be the case only if humans didn't exceed them in every field and the Highborne, Magisters and now Nightborne weren't all orbiting around this one human city that used to be easily destroyed by a gesture from Archimonde precisely to demonstrate how in over their head they were. Though again, the mages do have a lot of differences, like say a Nightborne caster from a blood elf blood mage, but their narrative draws them inexorably closer to being junior members of a human organisation and every top mage who isn't about to get killed in an eight-boss raid wasn[t a human. Once again though, off-topic, since mages demonstrate the bit about how they make more sense teaming up if they have shared interests and a baseline.

[Aucald]

That is theoretically the case, but functionally isn't, because the Blood Knights might as well be human paladins trapped in elven bodies and Liadrin is, as mentioned, the most boring woman alive. If you exchanged all of Liadrin's line with any other Blood Knight's or hell, with any Vindicator and just switched out any reference to elves or the Horde with the equivalent, no one would spot the least bit of a difference. Ashra is a bit better in this regard since he actually got to build a personality in the comic, but the rest are incorrigible. The trio in the Hand of Argus are arguably more different from one another than their organisation is from the Blood Knights.

Again, I think you're making a series of assumptions in an attempt to shoehorn the lore into your theory. We know a good deal of Maraad's and Boros' stories as well, from WoD and the Legion Paladin Order Hall campaign - enough to know they are informed by different events and thus view the Light with a different lens from any Blood Knight or Liadrin herself. The Hand of Argus traces its lineage all the way back to the flight of the Draenei from Argus, protecting the Draenei from the demons as the Legion as they hunted across the Great Dark for a permanent new home. The Blood Knights were created in Year 25 of the Warcraft timeline, a mere blink of the eye relative to the nigh-immortal Draenei, how much in common do you think these two groups have? Up to 30,000+ years and unnumbered worlds stand between them.

That'd be the case only if humans didn't exceed them in every field and the Highborne, Magisters and now Nightborne weren't all orbiting around this one human city that used to be easily destroyed by a gesture from Archimonde precisely to demonstrate how in over their head they were. Though again, the mages do have a lot of differences, like say a Nightborne caster from a blood elf blood mage, but their narrative draws them inexorably closer to being junior members of a human organisation and every top mage who isn't about to get killed in an eight-boss raid wasn[t a human. Once again though, off-topic, since mages demonstrate the bit about how they make more sense teaming up if they have shared interests and a baseline.

We've wandered pretty far afield from "Safe Haven," Thrall, Saurfang, and the events of BfA in general. Probably best to proceed to wrapping this tangent up.

[Doffen]

I am sorry to be a killjoy here, but Blizzard will never have an expansion, or begnning for that matter include the world being destroyed, or becoming uninhabitable.
It is really hte purest essence of the old adage of "You think you want it, but you don't"

Beyond hte simple narrative fact that it would be problematic to visualize it in a non-moroninc way in an MMO, how would it work in practice, would you have ot travel to a Bronze dragon portal every time you want to go back to Ironforge to upgrade your heirlooms, or fish up that elusive fish for the achievement? I would assume not, given Blizz has seemingly entirely caved on making travel an integrated part of the game after years of complaining. I guess we just suspend our disbelief every time we use a mage portal, which would be a new low in non-immersive game design.

There is also the pedantic fact that with the exception of MoP and Wod which gave both the new race and class in the same expansion and nothing in the next, we have an unbroken string of New race>New class>New race etc.
Getting Ethereals as a new race after BfA would completely break with that tradition.

Yeah, just putting it out there. Would be cool that's all. Such a killjoy

[Tripzzz]

Cinematic looks good. Art team gets and A+. Everyone else gets an F.

[Fetus Rex]

they don't have target lock -.-
also i wasn't talking about him fighting mage in first place, the opposite, Grom isn't the type who build immunity to magic

You can't build immunity for it. Dryads are natural.

[Reinhart11]

To balance this out Is make Draenei, Lightforged and (in case it happens) light-infused zombies a faction of their own, them being the ultimate defenders of the Light, wich the Alliance claims but lately blatantly fails to represent. They would be some sort of paragons of virtue and faith, but at the same time clash with the other Alliance factions when they feel those are not doing things the way it should be done. Might add Lightbound to this group, either as allies or as leading group under Yrel.

By the way, although I know this is too good for Blizz to implement, I really like the whole idea.

Oh, i completely missed to write down my thoughts about the Draenei and Lightforged. But i read my mind in this case, because i see them in the same place as you. I think that would fit well. And who knows, maybe one day the WoW Universe will get the writers it deserves. The potential of this fantasy universe is undeniable i think.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

--- snip ---

My Boyfriend's Back
The Angels
He went away and you hung around
And bothered me, every night
And when I wouldn't go out with you
You said things that weren't very nice
My boyfriend's back and you're gonna be in trouble
(Hey-la-day-la my boyfriend's back)
You see him comin' better cut out on the double
(Hey-la-day-la my boyfriend's back)
You been spreading lies that I was untrue
(Hey-la-day-la my boyfriend's back)
So look out now 'cause he's comin' after you
He's been gone for such a long time
(Hey-la-day-la my boyfriend's back)
Now he's back and things'll be fine
(Hey-la-day-la my boyfriend's back)
You're gonna be sorry you were ever born
(Hey-la-day-la my boyfriend's back)
'Cause he's kinda big and he's awful strong
(Hey-la-day-la my boyfriend's back)
(You're a big man now but he'll cut you down to size
(Wait and see)
My boyfriend's back he's gonna save my reputation
(Hey-la-day-la my boyfriend's back)
If I were you I'd take a permanent vacation
(Hey-la, hey-la, my boyfriend's back)
Yeah, my boyfriend's back (La-day-la, my boyfriend's back)
Look out now, yeah, my boyfriend's back (La-day-la, my boyfriend's back)
I could see him comin' so you better get a runnin' alright now (La-day-la, my boyfriend's back)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah (La-day-la, my boyfriends's back)
My boyfriend's back now (La-day-la, my boyfriend's back)
Know he's comin' after you because he knows I've been true now (La-day-la, my boyfriend's back)

Infracted.

[Ophenia]

I am sorry to be a killjoy here, but Blizzard will never have an expansion, or begnning for that matter include the world being destroyed, or becoming uninhabitable.
It is really hte purest essence of the old adage of "You think you want it, but you don't"

Beyond hte simple narrative fact that it would be problematic to visualize it in a non-moroninc way in an MMO, how would it work in practice, would you have ot travel to a Bronze dragon portal every time you want to go back to Ironforge to upgrade your heirlooms, or fish up that elusive fish for the achievement? I would assume not, given Blizz has seemingly entirely caved on making travel an integrated part of the game after years of complaining. I guess we just suspend our disbelief every time we use a mage portal, which would be a new low in non-immersive game design.

Well, in terms of mechanics, that'd be the same thing as WoD. Lorewise we never went back on Azeroth during all the WoD events