[Spoilers] Safe Haven Cinematic

[Friendlyimmolation]

I doubt 2 rogues can kill Saurfang, i'm surprised their daggers didn't break from tying to hit him
tbh sending normal rogues against someone who has record of wiping out entire demon armies alone is stupid, another thing that Sylvanas should be very familiar with (she fought next to him in Broken Shore at least), maybe Nzoth is taking hold of her or her undead brain finally rotted ?

when did Saurfang take on any demon army alone? Orcs need to sleep, undead don't. The assassins could have just tailed Saurfang or if actually was following them, waited until he was tired or simply collapsed from exhaustion. But like all things we are just supposed to forget all logic and cheer at the shiny cinematic.

[crazyfool319]

i'm starting to wonder what happened to the writer(s) who adore sylvanas, i mean there is a guy who (should be still?) had a photo on twitter with sylvanas waifu pillow, if he is still in writing team, how is he allowing that?
how can sylvanas not be a raid boss after this video ?

Because she will get her redemption arc somehow... Hell it could come out that nzoth has been controlling saurfang this whole time and has been working against the horde from inside and trying to tear it apart. I know it doesnt make sense, but so little of the writing has been well crafted that this is where we are at, lorecrafting the stupidest thing you can think of so when they inevitably disappoint you with the next plot twist you have tempered your expectations preemptively.

[omeomorfismo]

I doubt 2 rogues can kill Saurfang, i'm surprised their daggers didn't break from tying to hit him
tbh sending normal rogues against someone who has record of wiping out entire demon armies alone is stupid, another thing that Sylvanas should be very familiar with (she fought next to him in Broken Shore at least), maybe Nzoth is taking hold of her or her undead brain finally rotted ?

isnt like that the dagges are used for nothing more than applying posions (2.36). but hey, classical hero immunity

[Aucald]

That wouldnt be bad writing. Bad writing is having assassins attack two separate targets at the same exact time when one is waffling about leaving.
Saurfang: "hey come with me, shes ruining the horde"
Thrall: "NO"
Assassins in hiding: "we should attack these two insanely powerful orcs at the same time, waiting a couple minutes til one leaves the other would make things too easy."

I don't think Thrall was really waffling here - he was reticent, but you could tell he was mulling over what Saurfang had said. Assassins are also a one-use type of tool, if they don't get the drop on their target then their chances of a successful kill are greatly reduced. Saurfang and Thrall are attacked simultaneously so that neither party can issue a warning to the other - but the assassins were outclassed and taken out. It I were Sylvanas I would've sent more than two, as well; especially for such high-value and powerful targets. But that's more a question of suspension of disbelief than it is one of quality of writing as obviously these two assassins weren't going to be able to kill either of these two main characters - nameless mooks don't generally kill faction/racial leaders.

[Evilfish]

So this is basically another cinematic about "SYLVANAS BAD KEY?". I'm guessing by now the fans accepted that Sylvanas is evil. In fact I'm pretty sure they were aware of that. But when one choice is Sylvanas and the other is total devotion to the Alliance some people pick Sylvanas. I guess that does not sit well with what the writers were planning for the story... which is TOTALLY NOT MoP 2.0. No way!

[SirKickBan]

...So rogues have Predator-style invisibility fields, now?

Honestly, that bit was the worst part of the cinematic, for me. ..Kinda turns rogue from a skilled, batman-like assassin, into just.. Some bloke who can snap their fingers and turn invisible. A shitty mage with a knife.

[sam86]

when did Saurfang take on any demon army alone? Orcs need to sleep, undead don't. The assassins could have just tailed Saurfang or if actually was following them, waited until he was tired or simply collapsed from exhaustion. But like all things we are just supposed to forget all logic and cheer at the shiny cinematic.

in Mount Hyjal he did that, an official cannon achievement now that is mentioned in the cinematic with zappy boi, i did assume (nothing official) he can easily do the same in Broken Shore, we know he was in that battle but we don't know what he did i admit
but u are right, he is the strongest warrior, but he isn't invincible, they could attacked him while sleeping, but that return back to the fact that they were sent to Thrall not Saurfang in first place, so they didn't plan to attack Saurfang in first place

[Shefu]

Reading thru 14 pages of comments here.......honestly it feels like a lot of you simply live to complain. Like that's what you guys like to do at this point in your life.

Complain about BFA, WoW, cinematics, movies, shows....complain complain complain....

Just fucking stop.

Cinematic is dope af, if you think otherwise....wtf r u still doing here?

[crazyfool319]

when did Saurfang take on any demon army alone? Orcs need to sleep, undead don't. The assassins could have just tailed Saurfang or if actually was following them, waited until he was tired or simply collapsed from exhaustion. But like all things we are just supposed to forget all logic and cheer at the shiny cinematic.

Basically this, all logic goes out the door. Attack saurfang and thrall at the same time. And why would saurfang randomly start following nameless undead rogues around in nagrand, or even earlier. Hell, just the chance the sylvanas would send assassins after thrall on the same day that saurfang decided to visit him is slim enough, but to arrive at a close enough time that he could track stealthed rogues is quite a large leap. And apparently saurfang now has the ability to track two stealthed rogues at the same time?

[Pheraz]

Time to switch sides I guess.

Looking at your avatar - i guess you play horde, and when that bromance is finally re-uniting you want to quit horde to join manduin? xD
Omg the wow factions are so f*cked up

Can't we just stop that faction crap and leave every race make pacts with whoever they feel comfortable with?

[MikeBogina]

Wait what? How did you read that?

She (Sylvanas) should have killed Aggra. Then most of the playerbase would unite behind her.

ahh ok, I did misread that then. I read that as the playerbase uniting behind Aggra's death

[Fetus Rex]

Thrall actually never cheated, not sure how many times people are going to have to say this. There is no rule, absolutely no rule against magic in mak'gora. It's headcanon.

If you agree that Mak'gora has no rules against direct use of magic, even though it is specified that shamans can bless weapons then you admit that Mak'gora has no sense in orcish culture because warriors, no matter how great simply have no chances against spellcasters. Game mechanics do not translate into lore. Except for rare cases of cinematics like the one where Grommash was disarmed by Gul'dan in a few seconds or how Thrall easily defeated Garrosh.

But even ignoring magic rules, elements are sentient and sapient beings so it was 4v1, not only that, he was offered it to wield like a weapon so more than one weapon for Thrall.

Also he is not a traitor. Going against a ruler who tries to assassinate you preemptively because you MIGHT oppose them cannot ever be conceived as treason.

He has betrayed Garrosh, his Warchief.

[mickybrighteyes]

If u agree that Saurfang was really following them, then trying to hide from him was pointless
And i don't think he is lying, just why did Sylvanas do that in first place is what is crap writing

the why of it wouldn't really be bad writing... the fact that it is suddenly revealed in this manner is more a case of bad writing.

Also it's rather odd how he followed them... but they didn't move in till after he had a nice chat with Thrall. As interesting as I'd find Saurfang going on a fall to the dark side so he could get his fight to the death, and remembering he was the one meeting with most of those horde affiliated rogues/assassins/etc for War of Thorns, I really doubt this is going to play out anyway but Thrall now being in on fighting and an eventual Sylvanas is the big bad. They aren't going to introduce apparently Forsaken assassins and associate them with Sylvanas with no extra background information to set up nything except more 'Warchief is evil' storyline.

[Evaddon]

Its a great cinematic,

BUT I don't understand Sylvanas motivation for trying to assassinate Thrall?
...I've understood everything to a point until now. This act is needless aggression towards a party that withstood no action towards her current plans, or the way she leads The Horde. Why attempt this? Why bring so many different people together against her? Its odd. She has had a plan, a goal, and strategy all this time...why go out of her way like this. It doesn't add up, unless she needs Thrall for some reason?

---------------------------------------------------------
On another note, I LOVED how they made Thrall look so much like Durotan from the Warcraft Movies! I didn't get that comparison with his new model until now...its fantastic! I love it! They've really been hitting the ball out of the park with these Cinematic's....THIS is what the Warcraft movie needs to be, just these Cinematic's no real actors at all!

[crazyfool319]

I don't think Thrall was really waffling here - he was reticent, but you could tell he was mulling over what Saurfang had said. Assassins are also a one-use type of tool, if they don't get the drop on their target then their chances of a successful kill are greatly reduced. Saurfang and Thrall are attacked simultaneously so that neither party can issue a warning to the other - but the assassins were outclassed and taken out. It I were Sylvanas I would've sent more than two, as well; especially for such high-value and powerful targets. But that's more a question of suspension of disbelief than it is one of quality of writing as obviously these two assassins weren't going to be able to kill either of these two main characters - nameless mooks don't generally kill faction/racial leaders.

You do know that bad writing is having sylvanas send 2 nameless assassins after thrall right? Sylvanas has shown herself to be a highly cunning and ruthless strategist. And now she decides to take out a super powered shaman with nameless assassins? Thats bad writing. She is doing something out of character. She is being uncharacteristically careless with important matters.

[Peebuddy]

Be Me, Super deadly assassin
I'm super silent and invisible
I exploit my enemies weakness and my strikes are lightning fast
So I'm gonna give all that away and charge at an orc!

Be my friend, another super deadly assassin.
We work as a team to double our chances
We've probably banged at one point
So I'm gonna not attack the distracted orc and attack the other extremely large orc standing next to him!

The cinematic was amazing as usual by my god the writing, what ever happened to Ramsay Bolton and "20 good men" kind of writing?

[mickybrighteyes]

If you agree that Mak'gora has no rules against direct use of magic, even though it is specified that shamans can bless weapons then you admit that Mak'gora has no sense in orcish culture because warriors, no matter how great simply have no chances against spellcasters. Game mechanics do not translate into lore. Except for rare cases of cinematics like the one where Grommash was disarmed by Gul'dan in a few seconds or how Thrall easily defeated Garrosh.

But even ignoring magic rules, elements are sentient and sapient beings so it was 4v1, not only that, he was offered it to wield like a weapon so more than one weapon for Thrall.

there are no established rules that cover all Mak'gora. Cairne v. Garrosh stated blessed weapons. Garrosh v. Thrall (first time around) did not limit weapon amount or armor or even reference blessings in anyway. Garrosh v. Thrall episode 2 seemed to only involved witnesses and that it was 1v1. The orcs, ogres, etc that adhere to Mak'gora baiscally have rules stated for each Mak'gora that occurs so each time would have different rules that are followed.

Officially there are no explicit rules banning the use of magic. This can also be seen in a duel between a paladin (Blood Knight) and a Shaman where they had to fight with their favored weapon and no armor (but somehow the shaman was allowed a shield) and they had their respective magical abilities allowed. Fact is there really aren't many examples of Mak'gora and even LESS magic users bothering to partake of it. There are like 3 canon entities that have undergone Mak'gora and had access to magic, two of which fought each other and then Thrall. "but what about Gul'dan?!" Movie was not canon, that appearance of Guldan fighting was just filling screen time... as was Thrall's depiction in the movie.

[Aucald]

You do know that bad writing is having sylvanas send 2 nameless assassins after thrall right? Sylvanas has shown herself to be a highly cunning and ruthless strategist. And now she decides to take out a super powered shaman with nameless assassins? Thats bad writing. She is doing something out of character. She is being uncharacteristically careless with important matters.

Thrall is just a mortal - like her being susceptible to being shot in the face, he's susceptible to being poisoned and/or perforated by multiple Nightblades. It is also not as if she could've sent an entire detachment of Deathstalkers without showing her hand, as well. Could she have done it differently or better? Sure. But it isn't necessary, and two assassins already in position are likely more than enough to take out an unaware Thrall. But not both Saurfang and Thrall, as it happened, and as I said before it isn't as if this was the point, either.

The story is written to get a narrative from point A to point B, not to pursue a path that best represents what any one reader wants of it. Perhaps there were more assassins and they didn't survive the rigors of Outland, or perhaps those two were just the first of many to be dispatched. We can't really know that either way.

[Mehrunes]

Don't you get it? Blizz needs to hammer it down that Sylvanas is most evil ever. I think next patch Nozdormu will come and tell us that he double checked all timelines and that our Sylvanas is the worst there ever will be in all time lines ever. And then Sargeras will start a new crusade specifically against Sylvanas this time. :P

Make it AU Sargeras and I'm in.

Thrall actually never cheated, not sure how many times people are going to have to say this. There is no rule, absolutely no rule against magic in mak'gora. It's headcanon.

There is a rule against getting help from other people though. And Shamanistic magic, as explicitly described by Blizzard on their page, is all about getting aid from the Elementals.

[Fetus Rex]

there are no established rules that cover all Mak'gora. Cairne v. Garrosh stated blessed weapons. Garrosh v. Thrall (first time around) did not limit weapon amount or armor or even reference blessings in anyway. Garrosh v. Thrall episode 2 seemed to only involved witnesses and that it was 1v1. The orcs, ogres, etc that adhere to Mak'gora baiscally have rules stated for each Mak'gora that occurs so each time would have different rules that are followed.

Officially there are no explicit rules banning the use of magic. This can also be seen in a duel between a paladin (Blood Knight) and a Shaman where they had to fight with their favored weapon and no armor (but somehow the shaman was allowed a shield) and they had their respective magical abilities allowed. Fact is there really aren't many examples of Mak'gora and even LESS magic users bothering to partake of it. There are like 3 canon entities that have undergone Mak'gora and had access to magic, two of which fought each other and then Thrall. "but what about Gul'dan?!" Movie was not canon, that appearance of Guldan fighting was just filling screen time... as was Thrall's depiction in the movie.

First time was in comic and in game event, it was nonsense. They were bolting each other. In a story telling neither of them would survive 10 seconds of it.

And Garrosh would accept Mak'Gora with magic turned on? I doubt it. He was cocky but not stupid.

That comic Mak'Gora was Mak'gora in name only. Said blood elf paladin didn't care about the rules, didn't even listen to them and lashed out on the female orc. I gues she too didn't care considering she has spared him afterwards. Also body armor is not the same as shield but that's technicality.

Still, Thrall was using sentient and sapient entities.

Mak'gora with magic allowed has no sense in orcish culture. All clans would be ruled by magic users with no warrior ever having a chance to challenge the rule. That's not very honorable.