[Spoilers] Safe Haven Cinematic

**Firann** · 2019-05-16, 05:28 AM

What would be great (if feasible) is to give alliance players the option to help or not saurfang and thrall.

This could lay the ground works of a three faction split with a pro alliance, pro sylvanas and pro mixed group. During the character screen then players could select their faction. This could lead up to sub races or race options limited to specific factions.

Alternatively it could be used to establish that the playerbase will be part of the new mixed bunch,while there are fringe forces on either side opposing this unification.

**Felixon** · 2019-05-16, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by Aucald

Thoughts?

I truly hope,that Saurfang won't forget to tell Thrall the whole story - including him being the one,who created the battle plan and lead Horde's forces up until Teldrassil. But wait,Saurfang is supposed to be the good guy,right?

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Originally Posted by wanax

So i wonder if he will come back to overthrow Sylvanas and then turn the Horde over to someone else

Just like he did in Siege of Orgrimmar - very original way how to write a story - I mean,repeating it - you don't have write anything new and there will be people paying you the money for such a ...creativity.

**Acidbaron** · 2019-05-16, 06:07 AM

Exit Sylvanas can't come soon enough, yet another one character that ended up rather bland. Maybe some interesting spin can be given to the powers yet unknow that forced or influenced voljin into making her warchief. Which i believe will introduce a new much needed super villian we lack right now.

Right now her following (ingame that is) is pretty much a cult. I also dislike how it turns the whole Horde vs Alliance into Evil vs Good scenario, where multiple shades of grey are possible what makes the story for more interesting and far more identifiable with.

So with this divide within ranks and Thrall coming back we are now seeing again a horde that is about several ideas and believes, where as the start of BFA it was all pretty dull. We already have a rather one dimensional faction, called the alliance let's not copy that over to the horde.

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Originally Posted by matrix123mko

Thrall likes to wear blue since Lord of Clans.

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Sylvanas acted really stupid. Why would she try to assassinate the founding father of the Horde? If Thrall survives, he is forced to support Saurfang. If Thrall dies, he becomes a martyr for Saurfang's cause.

Unless Saurfang lied to get some ex-warchief on his side.

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Yes, it's just good looking justification to make Thrall support Saurfang.

Because she knows what happend the last time there was a division within the ranks of the Horde and Thrall stepped in to clean it up, she doesn't want to end like Garrosh and so she tried to get him off guard, knowing Thrall no longer has his elemental mojo and if Saurfang wasn't around she probably would have succeeded.

**Fetus Rex** · 2019-05-16, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by mickybrighteyes

Mak'gora by it's own definition is a traditional duel. There are less than 10 official confirmed accounts of Mak'gora where we can verify participants and see what came of the outcome.

As the AU is still largely using the same rules for governing their clans I don't see why it would suddenly be different on this point.

Discounting the AU Mak'gora cuts out half of those accounts (leaving in the second Thrall v Garrosh since they aren't natives to AU draenor).

But still of the 5 fights that took place in MU timeline... none have the same rules....Garrosh v Cairne was one weapon, blessed, no armor. Thrall v Garrosh both seemed to have SOME attire as arguable armor and blessings were never adressed. Blackhand v Doomhammer didn't specify such things either....

As far as canon is concerned Mak'gora has different rules for conducting the fight and handling the outcome for every fight as determined by those performing Mak'gora or those witnessing it

No, by it's definition it is a duel of honor. Garrosh asked for the traditional, og, orcish draenor rules before fight with Cairne, even though he didn't know what it mean.

Because things are different there. It is unknown which part is the same and which is not.

Old role didn't flesh it ot properly and they just didn't bother with models for the fight.

Still it is unreasonable to think that a warrior would consider fighting magic user.

Originally Posted by sam86

lore-wise there are warriors that build high resistance to magic, there are creatures that are magic immune like Dryads for example, there was a class in RPG that was called Berserker or something who is warrior that lose all self control but is unstoppable and almost invulnerable and totally immune to magic, while this specific sub-class is crap ruler (they are shown to not be intelligent), this is official lore class that build immunity wasn't born with
they are also extremely rare because they are built with long war experience and are horde-only

No such thing in the lore. RPG was never canon. If Grommash and Garrosh didn't build immunity then I doubt anybody else did. In the lore things are much easier. It took one good surprise hit to kill a grown bronze dragon. It took one blast from Gul'dan to overpoer Grommash.

**RCA** · 2019-05-16, 06:57 AM

So Thrall skips Burning Legion expo (in which his "honor" and heroism stem from), only to fight the remnants of the original lich kings creation that has broken free and then after so many years been enticed by old god power

**Astalnar** · 2019-05-16, 07:09 AM

"I followed them."

Sure thing, honey. Now we're supposed to believe that Saurfang was capable of tracking down the assassin's Sylvanas sent after Thrall?

That's just stupidly convoluted storytelling.

It requires to accept, that Sylvanas wold bother with Thrall who gave up on Horde some time ago. It also requires of us to accept that Saurfang is first able to get a whif of this plan, and then to track down, and catch up to the two assassins who would have big headstart.

Also: Thrall living in Nagrand is just sad. It seems orcs are incapable of even fixing a simple fence, and his roof has holes in it as well. That's not "barbaric", that's downright uncivilised.

**Ophenia** · 2019-05-16, 07:29 AM

One thing that everyone seems to be debating is why Sylvanas would send rogues to kill Thrall. But what if... She didn't, at all ? What if those Rogues aren't even sent by Sylvanas ?

That's the only twist I could see with this cinematic. Either these rogues were sent by someone else (who is against Sylvanas) to either make Thrall a martyr or push him to join the ranks, or they are sent by... whoever else in order to further spread chaos among Horde/Alliance.

Maybe this "V" mark will tell us who was behind all of this. Blizzard recently sucks at storytelling, can't imagine this glaring scar is just a scar, this shot looked like a huge banner "HEY LOOK AT THAT WINKWINKWINK".

**Syegfryed** · 2019-05-16, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by Astalnar

Sure thing, honey. Now we're supposed to believe that Saurfang was capable of tracking down the assassin's Sylvanas sent after Thrall?

Saurfang have been one a hell of a warrior and strategist for ages, he could pull that out, its not impossible

It requires to accept, that Sylvanas wold bother with Thrall who gave up on Horde some time ago.

he could represent a threat, and she is paranoid, and don't see how is hard to accept this.

It also requires of us to accept that Saurfang is first able to get a whif of this plan, and then to track down, and catch up to the two assassins who would have big headstart.

then it show that he was not just a old fool people have being thinking.

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Originally Posted by Ophenia

One thing that everyone seems to be debating is why Sylvanas would send rogues to kill Thrall. But what if... She didn't, at all ? What if those Rogues aren't even sent by Sylvanas ?

That's the only twist I could see with this cinematic. Either these rogues were sent by someone else (who is against Sylvanas) to either make Thrall a martyr or push him to join the ranks, or they are sent by... whoever else in order to further spread chaos among Horde/Alliance.

who would send undead? the twilight cult is very unlikely, and she send assassins after Saurfang, we know that, very unlikely be someone else

Maybe this "V" mark will tell us who was behind all of this. Blizzard recently sucks at storytelling, can't imagine this glaring scar is just a scar, this shot looked like a huge banner "HEY LOOK AT THAT WINKWINKWINK".

Its a N, maybe a Z, but definitely a N in my eyes

**Combatbutler** · 2019-05-16, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by Syegfryed

Saurfang have been one a hell of a warrior and strategist for ages, he could pull that out, its not impossible

Considering his track record very unlikely though. I really hope Saurfang used this situation to his advantage, to get thrall to do something.

**Syegfryed** · 2019-05-16, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by Combatbulter

Considering his track record very unlikely though.

what track record? the time he left the crippling depression behind he was fine.

**Super Dickmann** · 2019-05-16, 08:31 AM

The easiest solution, @Ophenia, would be just to have Saurfang be lying. It solves a whole lot of plot holes immediately - Saurfang didn't magically track invisible sleepless rogues, but rather he was the one tracked and was aware of it, hence going to Thrall to show him that the Horde is now zombies trying to off him. We know Saurfang can lie. He lied to Memeboi about everything in Old Soldier as his true plan was to commit suicide so that Anduin could defeat the Horde after all, and his whole plan in A Good War was based heavily on deception. Now he'd be making a white lie to get what he sees as the representation of 'his' Horde back on his side.

This won't happen, of course, but it's the easiest fix.
@Aucald

Nymrohd summarized what I was getting at regarding the WC3 Kalimdor Horde races and how many traits they have in common vs. the following races. I think most of the rest are things we're not going anywhere on, and off-topic anyway, past the part about Sylvanas sending the assassins, which I cover up top.

**MrExcelion** · 2019-05-16, 08:34 AM

Just to make a passing comment here, I thought the "no one's savior" line was amusing

I couldn't tell if that was a very subtle meta reference to the Green Jesus memes out there (more likely) and how high of a pedestal he gets put on by the story and some of the community's perception of him

Or a reference to the Deathwing raid which had the savior of azeroth title (less likely), which he played the biggest part in

Or both /shrug Don't bother reading into my post, I just think the word choice there was an intentional meta thing

**Ophenia** · 2019-05-16, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Super Dickmann

The easiest solution, @Ophenia, would be just to have Saurfang be lying. It solves a whole lot of plot holes immediately - Saurfang didn't magically track invisible sleepless rogues, but rather he was the one tracked and was aware of it, hence going to Thrall to show him that the Horde is now zombies trying to off him. We know Saurfang can lie. He lied to Memeboi about everything in Old Soldier as his true plan was to commit suicide so that Anduin could defeat the Horde after all, and his whole plan in A Good War was based heavily on deception. Now he'd be making a white lie to get what he sees as the representation of 'his' Horde back on his side.

This won't happen, of course, but it's the easiest fix.

Yeah that's my personal theory, "I followed them huehuehuehue" seems way too easy. But with Blizzard's recent writing, I can't imagine them putting a lie in Honorfang's CGI story. That would also be admitting that Saurfang knowingly brought two Rogues, who were solely after him, right to Thrall's (and his family) home, putting them at risk of instant death and forcing Thrall to participate in this war. Seems very selfish of him, even more considering that when Sylvanas will notice Thrall in the rebellion's army, she will not hesitate one second to murder Thrall's child just to make him pay.

That's why I'm trying to think about other possibilities. But I know I'm delusional, as we all were when I-don't-know-who said there was a huge unexpected twist before Teldrassil's burning.

Edit: But I'm 100% happy that Saurfang is probably not the most trustworthy person out there, as even Thrall doesn't trust him when he asks where his family is.

**Combatbutler** · 2019-05-16, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Syegfryed

what track record? the time he left the crippling depression behind he was fine.

No the time he couldn't catch sneaky bastards, in a good war.

I really hope he used the situation to his advantage makes him more rounded as a character.

**Super Dickmann** · 2019-05-16, 09:08 AM