[Spoilers] Safe Haven Cinematic

[Combatbutler]

So it's now canon that Rogues are actually invisible, not just... really sneaky?

It is both, invisible and sneaky. I mean it does make sense, considering that rogues do go unseen through open terrain all the time.

[Syegfryed]

No the time he couldn't catch sneaky bastards, in a good war.

I really hope he used the situation to his advantage makes him more rounded as a character.

with fail come success, there also totally different scenarios, i bet night elves n their lands, at night, are better stealth than undeads at daylight in his homeworld.

[Combatbutler]

with fail come success, there also totally different scenarios, i bet night elves n their lands, at night, are better stealth than undeads at daylight in his homeworld.

It happened not only in ashenvale,but orgrimmar as well

[Senel]

Imagine being a forsaken main for 15 years. Now try to play this expansion as a forsaken main. See how you feel about the "story".

How about a Zandalari helping Jaina? A Kul Tiran helping Thrall? It's a mess. Sylvanas is the scapegoat they use to move this "plot" along. It's always her fault. She did this, done that, killed those, plotted that... I love how this "writing" still gets greenlighted at Blizz. They prolly don't even care anymore. Maybe next time we'll see Thrall with a dagger-inflicted wound? To keep the MoP experience legit, of course.

would be just to have Saurfang be lying. It solves a whole lot of plot holes immediately

What's that? An interesting, not expected and very possible storyline? Nah, can't have those around here. Saurfang would never lie, he's too HONORED to do that. Evil Sylvanas is at fault always.

[Syegfryed]

It happened not only in ashenvale,but orgrimmar as well

who have more places to hide than a open field

he was not expecting then there too, nothing to be prepare for.

[Mormolyce]

It is both, invisible and sneaky. I mean it does make sense, considering that rogues do go unseen through open terrain all the time.

I always thought that was a gameplay-lore separation thing. Or suspension of disbelief.

[Combatbutler]

I always thought that was a gameplay-lore separation thing. Or suspension of disbelief.

Everything has a sprinkle of magic in the warcraft universe, always had. Except for the common scrubs, like footmen.

I mean it used to be that rogues vanished using flash powder so it worked like they were ninjas.

One does not exclude the other, it just increases the chances of getting away.

[Mormolyce]

I mean it used to be that rogues vanished using flash powder so it worked like they were ninjas.

Yeah originally it seemed like Rogues were meant to be a no-magic class. That's no longer the case though. So I guess Vanish is a spell or magical device related ability.

- - - Updated - - -

Everything has a sprinkle of magic in the warcraft universe, always had. Except for the common scrubs, like footmen.

I dunno, originally in Vanilla you had to craft the vanish bombs from physical reagents.

[sam86]

No such thing in the lore. RPG was never canon. If Grommash and Garrosh didn't build immunity then I doubt anybody else did. In the lore things are much easier. It took one good surprise hit to kill a grown bronze dragon. It took one blast from Gul'dan to overpoer Grommash.

so u claim dryads aren't immune to magic now?
also MU grom was agile lean warrior, AU crap was someone who too steroids, both weren't berserkers

[Fetus Rex]

so u claim dryads aren't immune to magic now?
also MU grom was agile lean warrior, AU crap was someone who too steroids, both weren't berserkers

Dryads are immune to magic. The are special kind of special after all.

Agile lean warrior won't outrun fireball, not to mention lightning bolt.

[Kuja]

Why don't they make a wow movie with these graphics? This trailer alone is better than the wow movie.

[Mehrunes]

You said "named," yes, but I said "prominent." And yes, I would call Finklestein prominent enough - he's generally a recognized name and has a pretty big role in WotLK all the way up to Icecrown itself. He was one of the first names that came to mind when I though of "good-aligned Forsaken NPC's."

Yeah, and you said that after I said named. Which makes it your attempt at shifting the goalposts. And what? Finklestein is present in what, two quests and a daily repeat of one of them? Rupert has three quests and appears in some dailies. And then appears in short event in ICC, which was so meaningless that to this day we don't know which NPCs in it died in canon and which (if any) survived. Darkmar was in one short quest. Grell appeared in one short story that Blizzard most likely forgot by now.

If she succeeded she could've left Saurfang bereft of allies and unable to form a strong coalition, making him far easier prey.

But there's no way in hell she could have succeeded given how half-assed of an attempt this was.

Bullcrap, I intentionally used that phrasing to perfectly mirror how it's stated in-game. Listen to Baine in the cutscene and Lilian Voss post-meeting again.

Is Voss the god-emperor of Forsaken now for her opinions to be authoritative statements about the Forsaken? What's that? She isn't? Instead she only joined the Forsaken in BfA, which means she had little time to ingrate herself into their culture? OK then, you can wave your non-argument bye bye. Never mind that her meaningless musings expressed only wonder if Sylvanas still takes pride in free will of the Forsaken, not any actual claims of it being violated. Meaning you have less than nothing here. A new record!

[Kumorii]

Why don't they make a wow movie with these graphics? This trailer alone is better than the wow movie.

Short cinematics are different from writing full length. Short movie directors don't necessarily do well for full length. They can focus more on details while full length rather have a broader picture. One of these scenes probably take longer to make than one movie scene.

I think they even said so themselves that they don't want to make a complete movie like that because of above reasons.

I want them to make one, but let's take suicide squad as an example. The trailer was amazingly done. They even thought so and thus hired them to do the rest of the movie... Which didn't work, because they knew how to make trailers.. Not full length movies.

[Mehrunes]

Semantics. We never get any indication that shamanistic spirits are considered persons in the same sense as orcs, tauren or humans. Nor was the validity of Thrall's previous battle or Shagara's usage of elemental magic ever subject to scrutiny prior by any canonical sources.

Right, entities that have their own language and even architecture are not people. What a great (and non-semantically) argument you got here.

[formerShandalay]

Some thoughts that occurred to me while watching the cinematic a few times again^^

First, undead rogues smell and cause unease. I don't think they actually left footprints or something like that, but in a place like Nagrand, where there's no demon stench or anything undead around someone might notice them nonetheless and then follow the hints their passing left behind. If they were heading in the general direction of Thrall, you don't need to know exactly where they are at any given moment to at least suspect what is happening.

Then... when Saurfang walks into the yard. past the fence and Thrall goes to greet him very reluctantly I had to think of the 'Son of Durotan' questline. The first time I saw it, someone else had triggered it. I saw Thrall walk into Garadar and didn't know what exactly was going on, because I had not gotten to that point in the storyline yet. I watched the whole scene play, Garrosh being depressed, Thrall telling him about his father and getting him out of it. The way Saurfang walked in reminded me so much of that. And then when Thrall says 'I'm noone's saviour' with shame and sadness in his voice, like he thinks he disappointed his father (who gave him the name Go'el-'saviour'), being kind of depressed and not wanting to fight... a bit like Garrosh back then, I thought, though maybe not as deeply depressed or just not showing it as much... but similar. It made me appreciate the cinematic even more for that parallel, even though the similarities are only subtle. Thrall back then arrived with much fanfare and a lot of Kor'kron warriors, Saurfang arrives alone and quite silently, but still the way he walked and well, the surroundings (duh^^) reminded me of the questline and I liked it.

[Mehrunes]

Let me explain this is block text in the simpliest way to understand, since people here keep repeating this same lack of awareness.

Sylvanas saw Thrall as a potential threat to her rule, because she knew a rebellion was coming due to Saurfang and Baine and player character siding with them.

She saw Thrall as a potential threat to her rule since he created the horde, and is still seen as an important figure in this horde.

So by killing him, she would get rid of that potential threat to her rule.

Do you understand?

Its amazingly stupid how people can't pull their head out of the sand because they can't get it into the heads Sylvanas is a bitch, always had been, and now she's in power is doing all she can to retain that power.

If the playerbase is this unaware of very simple to understand plot points, you have no dam business calling something shit when you can't even get the basic gist of it.

Except we just had an interview about how common folk in the Horde are rejecting Thrall for Sylvanas because she offers something new. Which is precisely why even at the very end of 8.2 Sylvanas has the loyalty of the people while Thrall has Saurfang, Baine and Lor'themar. So where are you seeing this "Thrall is still seen as an important figure" exactly? Which means you did get the right in bold right, but for completely different reasons.

Let me guess, if we asked Nathanos the failed assassination of Thrall is all "good news" and "part of the plan"...

He already says Thrall and Saurfang bailing Baine out of prison is part of the plan and that obviously happens later, so yeah.

[Aucald]

I truly hope,that Saurfang won't forget to tell Thrall the whole story - including him being the one,who created the battle plan and lead Horde's forces up until Teldrassil. But wait,Saurfang is supposed to be the good guy,right?

It's probably not in Saurfang's interest to talk up his role in spreading the Blood War like a rancid blanket, but it will be strange if someone informs Thrall of Saurfang's role after the fact. I'd like to be privy to that conversation.

[Mehrunes]

or just means its a shit, entitled playerbase?

Unlike Cata, where your endless rants about Thrall's treatment were obviously valid, amirite?

[Kumorii]

Some thoughts that occurred to me while watching the cinematic a few times again^^

First, undead rogues smell and cause unease. I don't think they actually left footprints or something like that, but in a place like Nagrand, where there's no demon stench or anything undead around someone might notice them nonetheless and then follow the hints their passing left behind. If they were heading in the general direction of Thrall, you don't need to know exactly where they are at any given moment to at least suspect what is happening.

Then... when Saurfang walks into the yard. past the fence and Thrall goes to greet him very reluctantly I had to think of the 'Son of Durotan' questline. The first time I saw it, someone else had triggered it. I saw Thrall walk into Garadar and didn't know what exactly was going on, because I had not gotten to that point in the storyline yet. I watched the whole scene play, Garrosh being depressed, Thrall telling him about his father and getting him out of it. The way Saurfang walked in reminded me so much of that. And then when Thrall says 'I'm noone's saviour' with shame and sadness in his voice, like he thinks he disappointed his father (who gave him the name Go'el-'saviour'), being kind of depressed and not wanting to fight... a bit like Garrosh back then, I thought, though maybe not as deeply depressed or just not showing it as much... but similar. It made me appreciate the cinematic even more for that parallel, even though the similarities are only subtle. Thrall back then arrived with much fanfare and a lot of Kor'kron warriors, Saurfang arrives alone and quite silently, but still the way he walked and well, the surroundings (duh^^) reminded me of the questline and I liked it.

Where do you get the "Undead rogues are smelly and cause unease" from? Not saying it isn't so... Just curious. Because that in of itself would make them awful rogues to begin with if their aura can be detected. So why would anyone, let alone an undead, employ them for recon or stealth missions?

[Mehrunes]

Sure thing, honey. Now we're supposed to believe that Saurfang was capable of tracking down the assassin's Sylvanas sent after Thrall?

That's just stupidly convoluted storytelling.

When normal people see stupidly convoluted storytelling Blizzard simply sees "subverting expectations", which is apparently a goal in and on itself nowadays.