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  1. #1

    A truly morbid possibility.

    On Story Forums there this interesting (and horrible) ideas circulating lately - what if such a distinct lack of Tyrande involvement in Nazjatar means that she is going to pop up later on in some big way? Sounds great you think? Dont be so fast about that... What if all that building up Shandris and making her kinda "find a common ground" with the Horde over fighting Azshara and ending that ancient enemy serves far more malicious purpose then just FINALLY expanding some character for NElfs that isnt Malf, Tyrande or a Warden?
    So here goes...
    Now when Shandris is all built up as "Horde isnt ALL bad, right?" character and Tyrande is made up as "Horde all BAD and should die" we can actually have a plot line where Tyrande goes "mad with her revenge and power" and starts doing like real evil shit, followed with Army of the Black Moon while blizz can smuggly speak about how "players who chose to change their night elven character to Night Warrior look now have to choose between changing their appearance again or sharing the blame". Then we can have her portrayed as stupid, overly agressive, wasting lifes of Kaldorei, can have that "soul touching" moment of Malfurion having a breakup with her "you went TOO FAR!" and so long and so on.
    ...
    Basically propping up all the "much needed" plot points. When she is defeated or taken down we can have - Night elfs under Shandris now firmly in the "peace camp" since Shandris is "frightened by the darkness" or "disgusted of the crimes" of Tyrande, have Malf return truly to neutrality and be some sot of druid-hermit "grieving for his wife and seeking reunion with the nature" so he is no longer a "powerhouse of Alliance", then we can have Anduin being shown as "voice of reason" who wants to stop Tyrande from wasting her people lifes in senslessly cruel campaign. And we also can have those night elfs who will never take peace killed either in the campaign or after it when we will be dealing with that.
    ...
    Sounds so morbidly stupid that this actually might be true.

  2. #2
    The Patient Wangming's Avatar
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    That wouldn't be that bad actually. Tyrande going evil would actually create some conflict inside the Alliance like back in Vanilla days. And it will push Nelves into the forefront. Also it won't be evil Horde characters again.

    To tell you the truth I was already working on an expansion concept where Tyrande is the villain. It's the best way to continue the story.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    That wouldn't be that bad actually. Tyrande going evil would actually create some conflict inside the Alliance like back in Vanilla days. And it will push Nelves into the forefront. Also it won't be evil Horde characters again.

    To tell you the truth I was already working on an expansion concept where Tyrande is the villain. It's the best way to continue the story.
    Actually to make her evil but also give Horde some story and kick nelfs in the nuts she will be presented as STUPID evil. For example - she sets an orphanage on fire, but Horde hero arrives and kills all the night elven attackers, douses the flames and saves orphans through a portal set by nightborne mage (to add an insult to inury). And then she like waves her fist at you angrily but impotently. Best case she will kill Suarfang and then whole genocide of nelfs will be just thrown to the window cuz "she went TOO FAR" shit. And also she will get TONS of night elfs killed and some of them might even join Sylvanas later on, or like join the Horde in general.

    ...

    To specify - her campaign will NOT be presented as "a vengeance for the Teldrassil and all the fallen" which is justified, but as some sort of ravening and mad revenge quest by the madwoman who lost her mind and throws her people lifes away in futile pursuit.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    On Story Forums there this interesting (and horrible) ideas circulating lately - what if such a distinct lack of Tyrande involvement in Nazjatar means that she is going to pop up later on in some big way? Sounds great you think? Dont be so fast about that... What if all that building up Shandris and making her kinda "find a common ground" with the Horde over fighting Azshara and ending that ancient enemy serves far more malicious purpose then just FINALLY expanding some character for NElfs that isnt Malf, Tyrande or a Warden?
    So here goes...
    Now when Shandris is all built up as "Horde isnt ALL bad, right?" character and Tyrande is made up as "Horde all BAD and should die" we can actually have a plot line where Tyrande goes "mad with her revenge and power" and starts doing like real evil shit, followed with Army of the Black Moon while blizz can smuggly speak about how "players who chose to change their night elven character to Night Warrior look now have to choose between changing their appearance again or sharing the blame". Then we can have her portrayed as stupid, overly agressive, wasting lifes of Kaldorei, can have that "soul touching" moment of Malfurion having a breakup with her "you went TOO FAR!" and so long and so on.
    ...
    Basically propping up all the "much needed" plot points. When she is defeated or taken down we can have - Night elfs under Shandris now firmly in the "peace camp" since Shandris is "frightened by the darkness" or "disgusted of the crimes" of Tyrande, have Malf return truly to neutrality and be some sot of druid-hermit "grieving for his wife and seeking reunion with the nature" so he is no longer a "powerhouse of Alliance", then we can have Anduin being shown as "voice of reason" who wants to stop Tyrande from wasting her people lifes in senslessly cruel campaign. And we also can have those night elfs who will never take peace killed either in the campaign or after it when we will be dealing with that.
    ...
    Sounds so morbidly stupid that this actually might be true.
    "The fall of night reveals her true face. She will bring only ruin."

    N'zoth whisper. The Night Warrior stuff looks shadow/void themed anyways. Makes sense.

    Edit: Also both Tyrande and Malfurion have out-lived their WoW potential. Especially after the cringe-fest that was Val'sharah. Malf should've died during the War of Thorns, that would've been enough motivation for the Night Warrior ritual. And Elune could easily be corrupted already, hence the N'zoth whisper.
    Last edited by NabyBro; 2019-06-01 at 04:50 PM.

  5. #5
    Given dev comments about her revenge being complete and how the Alliance is like family who always support each other I think the chances are higher that Tyrande will hug Saurfang and apologize after Sylvanas is overthrown and they'll live in harmony within the Hordalliance.

    But yeah, the only other option is the one you suggest. There's no way that Blizzard will ever portray Tyrande wanting to punish the Horde rather than just Sylvanas herself as a good thing, doesn't she know those poor babies dun got tricked. If she doesn't forgive the Horde then she'll be cast as a villain, so as to make Saurfang and Anduin look good, just like how the destruction of Teldrassil was done to make them both sad.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    "The fall of night reveals her true face. She will bring only ruin."

    N'zoth whisper. The Night Warrior stuff looks shadow/void themed anyways. Makes sense.
    Wasnt one genocide enough though? I mean even the night elfs can be the pucnhing bag only THIS far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Given dev comments about her revenge being complete and how the Alliance is like family who always support each other I think the chances are higher that Tyrande will hug Saurfang and apologize after Sylvanas is overthrown and they'll live in harmony within the Hordalliance.

    But yeah, the only other option is the one you suggest. There's no way that Blizzard will ever portray Tyrande wanting to punish the Horde rather than Sylvanas herself as a good thing, doesn't she know those poor babies dun got tricked. If she doesn't forgive the Horde then she'll be cast as a villain, so as to make Saurfang and Anduin look good, just like how the destruction of Teldrassil was done to make them both sad.
    Thats what i am pointing at. That she will not be an avenger of her people, but rather "that crazy hoe" and an instrument to prop up Anduina dn Saurfang even more while herself will be replaced by Shandris who will hug it out.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Thats what i am pointing at. That she will not be an avenger of her people, but rather "that crazy hoe" and an instrument to prop up Anduina dn Saurfang even more while herself will be replaced by Shandris who will hug it out.
    Honestly, if they do do this it'll be a Yrel/Garrosh situation where they unintentionally make their strawman be right but her being crazy will be how it will be cast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shandris Feathermoon/Genn Greymane
    Oh, I was sad about Teldrassil too, but thinking that more than one person is responsible is too far
    That said I think forgiveness is more likely. That and a hard retcon of Teldrassil after the soft retcons of having everyone ignore it or pretend only Sylvanas is responsible for everything don't fly. "Only a minority of elves burned in the tree" and stuff like that.
    Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2019-06-01 at 04:56 PM.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Honestly, if they do do this it'll be a Yrel/Garrosh situation where they unintentionally make their strawman be right but her being crazy will be how it will be cast.



    That said I think forgiveness is more likely. That and a hard retcon of Teldrassil after the soft retcons of having everyone ignore it or pretend only Sylvanas is responsible for everything don't fly. "Only a minority of elves burned in the tree" and stuff like that.
    You meant Grommash?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    You meant Grommash?
    Nah, I mean Garrosh in Tides of War and big parts of Mists where he comes off as the only sane man in the Horde leadership because everyone else has amnesia and doesn't remember Wrath or the Cata leveling zones.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Wasnt one genocide enough though? I mean even the night elfs can be the pucnhing bag only THIS far.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Thats what i am pointing at. That she will not be an avenger of her people, but rather "that crazy hoe" and an instrument to prop up Anduina dn Saurfang even more while herself will be replaced by Shandris who will hug it out.
    Blizzard wouldn't get away with Tyrande turning into an actual villian by herself.

    So the most likely outcome is that Elune is corrupted, the Night Warrior ritual is a bunch of shadow/voidy stuff and so Tyrande is corrupted now so she goes bunkers after N'zoth is free. IF Blizz actually goes the 'Tyrande is evil now' route.

    And tbh, I don't know where else it could go. After Darkshore what would the Night Warrior do? It is said that the Night Warrior needs constant victims to be kept satisfied, or something like that. And that can't go on forever, so she needs to be dealt with eventually.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Honestly, if they do do this it'll be a Yrel/Garrosh situation where they unintentionally make their strawman be right but her being crazy will be how it will be cast.



    That said I think forgiveness is more likely. That and a hard retcon of Teldrassil after the soft retcons of having everyone ignore it or pretend only Sylvanas is responsible for everything don't fly. "Only a minority of elves burned in the tree" and stuff like that.

    Also where is this second quote comes from? Can you give a link?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Blizzard wouldn't get away with Tyrande turning into an actual villian by herself.

    So the most likely outcome is that Elune is corrupted, the Night Warrior ritual is a bunch of shadow/voidy stuff and so Tyrande is corrupted now so she goes bunkers after N'zoth is free. IF Blizz actually goes the 'Tyrande is evil now' route.

    And tbh, I don't know where else it could go. After Darkshore what would the Night Warrior do? It is said that the Night Warrior needs constant victims to be kept satisfied, or something like that. And that can't go on forever, so she needs to be dealt with eventually.
    Why cant it? Azeroth is teeming with enemies, all kinds of them. Horde is not the only “dish on the menu” plus she has to retake Ashenvale too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Nah, I mean Garrosh in Tides of War and big parts of Mists where he comes off as the only sane man in the Horde leadership because everyone else has amnesia and doesn't remember Wrath or the Cata leveling zones.
    Ah i see. I thought you meant how they made Yrel look evil when she just was smart enough not to buy who “Draenor is free” idiocy.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Also where is this second quote comes from? Can you give a link?
    It isn't real yet, it's just a riff on how they forgot to give the orcs any reason to turn against Garrosh in Mists, so they had to say in a tweet that only a minority of orcs followed him because it looked like you killed pretty much every orc except Saurfang and Thrall. Before that it looked like he had majority orcish support.

    The same way that the first time Teldrassil was shown to us it was a genocide that killed most of the night elf civilian population in the world. It's something really dark that you can't really go back from, especially since the Horde itself was heavily involved, not just Sylvanas. So now it's being downplayed, but not explicitly contradicted, which isn't enough. The next step if they don't want to make everyone look like a tool is go back and retcon it so that most people got evacuated and Sylvanas only burned a small part of the night elves and she did so against the wishes of the Horde troops.

    Re: Yrel

    Yeah, that's what I mean. She's meant to be super evil, but is unintentionally being a pretty reasonable actor. The same would happen if they tried making Tyrande a baddie.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  13. #13
    The Patient Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Actually to make her evil but also give Horde some story and kick nelfs in the nuts she will be presented as STUPID evil. For example - she sets an orphanage on fire, but Horde hero arrives and kills all the night elven attackers, douses the flames and saves orphans through a portal set by nightborne mage (to add an insult to inury). And then she like waves her fist at you angrily but impotently. Best case she will kill Suarfang and then whole genocide of nelfs will be just thrown to the window cuz "she went TOO FAR" shit. And also she will get TONS of night elfs killed and some of them might even join Sylvanas later on, or like join the Horde in general.

    ...

    To specify - her campaign will NOT be presented as "a vengeance for the Teldrassil and all the fallen" which is justified, but as some sort of ravening and mad revenge quest by the madwoman who lost her mind and throws her people lifes away in futile pursuit.
    Like MoP Garrosh, I know. Sadly Blizz is incapable of writing compelling stories. But we know that 1) Sylvanas is evil as shit 2) She will not be punished hard enough.

    The only way for this is to go forward is for any combination of Tyrande, Genn and Jaina to go apeshit and swear vengeance on Blanduin.

  14. #14
    Leave my Tyrande alone. She's been abused enough by the devs...

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    Leave my Tyrande alone. She's been abused enough by the devs...
    Well i never said i LIKE that scenario. I just wanted to show it.

  16. #16
    Has Shandris been set up as a "horde din' do nuthin!" character in 8.2? Because that would be majorly disappointing. I haven't been following the upcoming story very closely but from what I saw she hesitantly works with Thalyssra for the greater good of bringing down Azshara, right?

    Either way, while I like the idea of adding some conflict to the Alliance and having one of their leaders do something genuinely evil for a change, I don't think it should be a Night Elf. We've all seen how the races that Blizzard's writers give attention to all seem to turn out worse-off - Kaldorei especially, but honorable mention goes to the Orcs during MoP/WoD - and we'd just end up with the Iron Hordorei.

    Give them some proper closure, let them reclaim Darkshore and Ashenvale and re-settle their people there, and then leave them be for a while so Blizzard's A-team can't make things worse for an already crippled race.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sae View Post
    Has Shandris been set up as a "horde din' do nuthin!" character in 8.2? Because that would be majorly disappointing. I haven't been following the upcoming story very closely but from what I saw she hesitantly works with Thalyssra for the greater good of bringing down Azshara, right?

    Either way, while I like the idea of adding some conflict to the Alliance and having one of their leaders do something genuinely evil for a change, I don't think it should be a Night Elf. We've all seen how the races that Blizzard's writers give attention to all seem to turn out worse-off - Kaldorei especially, but honorable mention goes to the Orcs during MoP/WoD - and we'd just end up with the Iron Hordorei.

    Give them some proper closure, let them reclaim Darkshore and Ashenvale and re-settle their people there, and then leave them be for a while so Blizzard's A-team can't make things worse for an already crippled race.
    Shandris is kinda set up as “well Horde maybe bad but thats all on Warchief and Horde elfs are nice” so thats that.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    Also where is this second quote comes from? Can you give a link?

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    Why cant it? Azeroth is teeming with enemies, all kinds of them. Horde is not the only “dish on the menu” plus she has to retake Ashenvale too.
    So you think Tyrande will run around the world with void powers eating quilboars and stuff all day till nothing is left alive?

    Kalimdor is supposed to be Horde territory now. The Alliance won't be able to take back Ashenvale because it's too close to Orgrimmar, OR if the war somehow comes to an end they won't be able to take back Ashenvale because it's technically Horde now, and that would restart the war.

    Plus it just makes sense. Elune granting Tyrande a questionable gift that corrupts her to the point that we have to put her down makes for a better narrative than what they did to Garrosh in MoP. Plus again, Tyrande & Malf are overdue, we need to freshen up the Night Elf scene.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    So you think Tyrande will run around the world with void powers eating quilboars and stuff all day till nothing is left alive?

    Kalimdor is supposed to be Horde territory now. The Alliance won't be able to take back Ashenvale because it's too close to Orgrimmar, OR if the war somehow comes to an end they won't be able to take back Ashenvale because it's technically Horde now, and that would restart the war.

    Plus it just makes sense. Elune granting Tyrande a questionable gift that corrupts her to the point that we have to put her down makes for a better narrative than what they did to Garrosh in MoP. Plus again, Tyrande & Malf are overdue, we need to freshen up the Night Elf scene.
    Are you talking out of your ass or what? Why Ashenvale is Horde suddenly? If war ends and Sylvanas is gone it can be easily returned to the Alliance or to night elfs to be precise. And she can go against Old Gods who will be a big part of the future patches/expansions or end the satyrs if nothing else. You know, sort of scourge the Ashenvale and Darkshore of local threats so her people might live in peace.
    Plus.
    If you say that Kalimdor “is Horde now” then where the fuck night elfs should live? On a pumpkin farms near Stormwind?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    That said I think forgiveness is more likely. That and a hard retcon of Teldrassil after the soft retcons of having everyone ignore it or pretend only Sylvanas is responsible for everything don't fly. "Only a minority of elves burned in the tree" and stuff like that.
    I wonder if they retconned the butchery in Astranaar since it's repopulated with NPCs who were recently dead

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