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  1. #141
    This is what happens when you overuse faction conflict. If BFA was going to be about a fraction war, make it about the war. If it it's about Azshara and the Old Gods, then the whole faction war and burning of Teldrassil is a waste. Night Elves should have been front and center in this Xpac

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    All you've done is doubled down on what I said. "My favorite character isn't present where I want her to be, therefore the story is bad. Who cares what they have planned for her to do in the future. She's not in the story doing what I think she should be doing therefore bad."

    - - - Updated - - -



    We don't know where she goes, because we haven't gotten to that part of the story yet. That's not bad, but you're treating it like it is.

    I remember the patience thing. Tyrande has always had a problem with charging ahead without thinking. Remember when she killed people on her own side against Malfurion's orders to free Illidan? I remember her in WC3. Her character reveal quote was "No one but Elune may deny ME anything." Varian, on the other hand, learned the hard work in the gladiator arena and thereafter how badly that can screw you up. And yet people see "human teaches 10,000 year old something lol" and stop thinking.

    Also, the lesson of Pandaria wasn't that the two were stronger together. It was that they became stronger because they were always competing. A one world government juggernaut (which was what Wrathion was going for) would be less effective than two groups honed to a razor's edge from fighting one another.

    Wow, dude. You are seriously jaded. You actually seem to believe that the Blizz writers sit around the table twirling their moustaches plotting with each other "What new way can we destroy the night elves to make humans look better. The naga are a problem for everyone, and with Darkshore going on it makes sense that they don't have the manpower to devote to a large-scale invasion of Nazjatar. I'm sure we'll see Tyrande soon enough. Not seeing her right now doesn't preclude her from appearing later.
    And you, sir, are seriously blind to the past.

    Side note: If you think Tyrande is my favorite character you haven't looked at my complaints about her characterization lately.

    Blizzard NEVER brings these things back up, and yes, not seeing her right now when we're dealing with Azshara, means we will never see her deal with Azshara. We will never get the end that story deserved, because "We feel the Night Elves got their revenge."

    Except, they didn't accomplish anything.

    So what revenge did they get, exactly, for losing their home? And in return, they're written out of the stories which SHOULD be theirs - Because it's too busy being Human Potentialed.

    I don't think they're twirling their pencils planning for it. That's precisely the problem. They're not planning anything. They're picking their favorite characters and using them. JUST them. No one else. Everyone else is a waste to them, to further the potential of their favorites.

    They decided on this years ago, before my input could have ever been received. So all I can do is tell them they fucked it up, because they're most definitely not changing it now.

    And here's a thought experiment for you: How many non-human races got some story in each expansion? I say non-human, because since Wrath, Humans have ALWAYS gotten lore - We don't need to know when they get lore, they ALWAYS get lore or story given to their characters. Try to list out each race that got lore or a story spotlight in each expansion. Then you should EASILY see my problem with Humans getting all of the lore every expansion.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2019-05-16 at 04:25 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    You said Darkshore scenario. If you're not talking about the warfront what are you? She was there in the questline.
    I'm talking about the, as I call it, "Mascara Scenario", the Nightwarrior bullshit. There Blizz devs took a random player model and slapped "Tyrande" on it, while Saurfang gets his 2nd CGI cinematic. In other words, the orcs get all the effort of Blizzards devs while nelfs get none.

  4. #144
    Legendary! FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    I feel for night elf players here, really I do. Blizzard really did fuck them beyond repair and this isn't even the climax.
    Fuck the Nelfs..

    The entire Horde have been fucked sideways since Warcraft 1..

    Stupid Blizzard always favours Alliance, and once alliance stub their toes, the fanbois feels offended..
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > MoP > BfA > WoD = WotLK

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  5. #145
    Oh blizz, how can you try to push that narrative with a straight face. But got to have humans always on the forefront.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Fuck the Nelfs..

    The entire Horde have been fucked sideways since Warcraft 1..

    Stupid Blizzard always favours Alliance, and once alliance stub their toes, the fanbois feels offended..
    Sooo, you had a racial capital burned and all their citizens murdered by the Alliance? When did that happen? Must have missed it...

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Blizz honestly believes that Darkshore was 'revenge' for Teldrassil

    https://www.wowhead.com/news=291733/...-with-blizzard





    And as wowhead's Perculia says
    In short - those "writers" shouldn't ever be taught how to write. I thought burning of Teldrassil was written in a stupid way, I thought that NIGHT WARRIOR crap was written in even more stupid and edgy manner,but this...this trumps it all. Blizzard officially announces,that they don't give a shit about the night elves and they are a target dummy for the faction,consisting of the majority of World of Warcraft subscribers - so,everything in clients interests. I'm glad I unsubbed,not a single eurocent to a scumbag,who thinks,that every other Blizzard game should be made in the same manner as an idiotic "Candy Crush" shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Fuck the Nelfs..

    The entire Horde have been fucked sideways since Warcraft 1..

    Stupid Blizzard always favours Alliance, and once alliance stub their toes, the fanbois feels offended..
    "I pay the money for this "game",because my faction always wins" - at least you win in something in your life.

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    Sooo, you had a racial capital burned and all their citizens murdered by the Alliance? When did that happen? Must have missed it...
    It's a fekking tree..
    Trees are used a lumber or firewood.. Get over it.

    All trees are hosts to a myriad of pests; birds, ants, larvae......And some even elves who should have known better than to climb up a tree and call it home.

    Horde have had capitals invaded THREE TIMES, Alliance zero times.
    Horde have lost a capital, Alliance lost a tree
    Horde have lost 3 Faction leaders (2 dead, 1 retired) and 3 race leader, Alliance have lost 1 faction leader
    Horde have one settlement erased from existence, in a totally unprovoked attack, Alliance have lost ZERO in unprovoked attacks.

    Can you honestly say, Alliance isn't openly favored by Blizzard?
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > MoP > BfA > WoD = WotLK

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  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    It's a fekking tree..
    Trees are used a lumber or firewood.. Get over it.

    All trees are hosts to a myriad of pests; birds, ants, larvae......And some even elves who should have known better than to climb up a tree and call it home.

    Horde have had capitals invaded THREE TIMES, Alliance zero times.
    Horde have lost a capital, Alliance lost a tree
    Horde have lost 3 Faction leaders (2 dead, 1 retired) and 3 race leader, Alliance have lost 1 faction leader
    Horde have one settlement erased from existence, in a totally unprovoked attack, Alliance have lost ZERO in unprovoked attacks.

    Can you honestly say, Alliance isn't openly favored by Blizzard?
    Uh what three invasions are you talking about?

    Alliance had Theramoore bombed :P
    Twas brillig

  10. #150
    Personally i think most of the complaints about the story in Nazjatar can be summed up in Blizzards reply to where Battlemaiden Nar'jira is. (For those who don't know, the central character in a lengthy Vashj'ir questline where we see her ascension from grunt to Azshara's personal guard)

    I am slightly paraphrasing here, but the reply went something like "We realized we did not have time to write the Battlemaiden into the story, instead we hope you enjoy these new characters"

    Which to me told me everything i needed to know, because forgetting about her is one thing, but then when they are confronted about it, they don't own up to their mistake, they try to deflect it with a meaningless argument. New characters be design have no expectations added to them, so changing them around does nothing.
    A simple fix for instance would have been to change the first boss in The Eternal Palace to Nar'jira, and just give a quick explanation that she didnt use magic in her quests for reasons, and that she got a new form as a reward since we last saw her.
    Doing this nothing would have changed in the story, but for those of us who longed for a return to this plotline, it would have made all the difference.


    Similarly, making the Alliance characters in Nazjatar Jaina and Genn can be seen through the same lens. Blizz could have had other elves there, i don't even necessarily need Tyrande or Malfurion. They could have at least had Umbric there, just to give somewhat of a point to Alliance being htere at all.
    Blizzard clearly intended Nazjatar to be a microcosm of BfA, where Alliance and Horde work together against a common evil, the Horde leaders being Lor'themar and Thalyssra shows this, they both have a history with Azshara and a reason to set aside their differences for the greater good, Jaina adds nothing to this.

    Even if Blizz wanted to convince us that Night elves already got their revenge, just have Tyrande and Malfurion there, that would give somewhat of a firm grounding in the belief that they have mostly "Gotten over it" And would allow the unified front story to work more naturally.

    Tl:dr: Tyrande and Malfurion should have been in Nazjatar because their story is so closely tied to the place. Having Jaina and Genn there adds nothing except the anger of them being pointless.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Even if Blizz wanted to convince us that Night elves already got their revenge, just have Tyrande and Malfurion there, that would give somewhat of a firm grounding in the belief that they have mostly "Gotten over it" And would allow the unified front story to work more naturally.
    But... Jaina even says during Naz'jatar that vengance for Teldrassil needs to happen.

  12. #152
    Scarab Lord gaymer77's Avatar
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    I unsubbed a few months ago because I'm hating the direction Blizzard has taken the Horde and specifically Sylvanas this expansion. This treatment of the Night Elves isn't something Alliance players should be surprised about. It doesn't fit into the whole "Horde is your typical comic villain" them they have going this expansion.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    But... Jaina even says during Naz'jatar that vengance for Teldrassil needs to happen.
    Now you know where this story line is going to go, absolutely nowhere as was expected to be honest.

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Uh what three invasions are you talking about?

    Alliance had Theramoore bombed :P
    Orgrimmar, Undercity and Dazar'alor..

    Theramore was not an unprovoked attack, it was:
    1: A valid military target
    2: A weeks notice was given to get civilians out.
    3: Exposure of a self-proclaimed neutral city that aided Alliance.
    Last edited by FuxieDK; 2019-05-16 at 08:14 AM.
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  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Orgrimmar, Undercity and Dazar'alor..

    Theramore was not an unprovoked attack, it was:
    1: A valid military target
    2: A weeks notice was given to get civilians out.
    3: Exposure of a self-proclaimed neutral city that aided Alliance.
    False comparison. These cities were never nuked by the Alliance. Stop being dishonest.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Orgrimmar, Undercity and Dazar'alor..
    Orgrimmar was a joint assault in a Horde civil war. The city was also largely untouched, no looting, pillaging, burning, nothing. It's in perfect shape in the next expansion. If anything, it was liberation.
    First Undercity invasion was a joint assault by both factions after Putress attacked them at the Wrathgate. Second was a response to Teldrassil burning and Sylvanas destroyed it herself.
    Dazar'alor is not a Horde city at the point of the attack.
    Theramore was not an unprovoked attack, it was:
    1: A valid military target
    2: A weeks notice was given to get civilians out.
    3: Exposure of a self-proclaimed neutral city that aided Alliance.
    We see Theramore civilians being prisoners during Siege of Orgrimmar, so all that "they got time to escape" is largely bullshit. Garrosh didn't care at all.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurojust View Post
    False comparison. These cities were never nuked by the Alliance. Stop being dishonest.
    I said 3 capitals invaded, not nuked.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by KaPe View Post
    Orgrimmar was a joint assault in a Horde civil war. The city was also largely untouched, no looting, pillaging, burning, nothing. It's in perfect shape in the next expansion. If anything, it was liberation.
    First Undercity invasion was a joint assault by both factions after Putress attacked them at the Wrathgate. Second was a response to Teldrassil burning and Sylvanas destroyed it herself.
    Dazar'alor is not a Horde city.
    We see Theramore civilians being prisoners during Siege of Orgrimmar, so all that "they got time to escape" is largely bullshit. Garrosh didn't care at all.
    There was nothing "joint" about Orgrimmar.

    Horde wanted to keep it an internal matter, which is reflected in the title (Liberator) you get when you complete the raid.
    Alliance wanted to sack Orgrimmar, and gets a completely different title (Conqueror).They had no business in Orgrimmar, and it was wrong to let Varian and Jaina leave alive.

    I'm NOT talk g about Wrathgate.. I'm talking about BfA!

    Dazar'alor IS a Horde Capital. Zandalari joined the Horde before Alliance invaded it.
    Last edited by FuxieDK; 2019-05-16 at 08:24 AM.
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  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    And here's a thought experiment for you: How many non-human races got some story in each expansion? I say non-human, because since Wrath, Humans have ALWAYS gotten lore - We don't need to know when they get lore, they ALWAYS get lore or story given to their characters. Try to list out each race that got lore or a story spotlight in each expansion. Then you should EASILY see my problem with Humans getting all of the lore every expansion.
    Humans got no particular lore in WoD to be fair.
    Dwarves get lore quite frequently; Classic had more dwarf than human lore, TBC had as much human as dwarf (the Wildhammers in Shadowmoon), Wrath had a lot of dwarf lore, Cata had plenty, MoP was limited but still had some (MoP was the most human centric), WoD had Alliance Dark Irons as major characters, Legion and BfA have Magni and Brann and BfA has the Dark Iron allied race scenario.
    Night Elves had Classic, a tiny bit in TBC, almost nothing in Wrath, plenty in Cata, very little in MoP, nothing in WoD, plenty in Legion and BfA
    Gnomes also have Classic, a tiny bit in TBC, their Gnomeregan scenario in Wrath and pretty much nothing till Mechagon except for Gelbin getting some screen time.

    Orcs arguably had more Lore than even Humans up until Legion (mainly because Humans did not get much in TBC).
    Tauren got lore in Classic and that's it? Nothing in TBC, very little in Wrath if you count the Taunka, a single zone in Cata, nothing in MoP or WoD. A small appearance in the Highmountain allied race scenario and then Baine got screentime now in BfA. They had much more lore but all of it is in books.
    Darkspear trolls had very little in Classic compared to other races (gnomes also shared areas with another race but at least they got their own dungeon); other trolls arguably had more lore as antagonists all over the world. This remained true for TBC, Wrath and Cata (little or nothing for Darkspear, significant presence for other clans). They got lore in MoP, again nothing though in WoD. They were barely used in Legion (one of the worst parts of artifacts story wise was that most of them had to do with humans, elves, dwarves or draenei). Again in BfA the focus is on non-Darkspear trolls.
    Forsaken had lore in Classic, Wrath, Cata, Legion, BfA; they got limited lore in MoP or WoD
    Blood Elves got significant lore in TBC and MoP. In Wrath they had some through the sunreavers and after that most of their time was screentime for individual characters, mostly Liadrin or Aethas. They had an arc in WoD that was cut.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2019-05-16 at 08:29 AM.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Dazar'alor IS a Horde Capital. Zandalari joined the Horde before Alliance invaded it.
    No they did not. Ironically, it was Rastakhan who really did not think much of the Horde. And if you check your lore, even Talanji after BOD does NOT join the Horde. This is the important part:
    Sylvanas: She thinks to summon me? Hmph. I suppose she is allowed some posturing today.
    Talanji: De Horde has been a trustworthy ally to Zandalar.
    Talanji: Without our partnership, we may not have overcome de threats dat rose against us.
    Talanji: I understand dat you have need of our forces. De Alliance will stop at nothing to destroy you.
    Talanji: So let it be official. De Zandalari and de Horde will stand together... as equals.
    Sylvanas: Equals?
    I am de queen of Zandalar. And a queen kneels to no one. Surely, you understand.
    Sylvanas: I see... Very well, Queen Talanji. The Horde welcomes you.
    So no, the Zandalari most definetly were NOT part of the Horde before BOD and they are not part of it now. They are in an ALLIANCE with the Horde. Whether you like that or not is not important. There are no two ways to read this.
    Last edited by Nathasil; 2019-05-16 at 10:58 AM.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathasil View Post
    No they did not. Ironically, it was Rastakhan who really did not think much of the Horde. And if you check your lore, even Talanji after BOD does NOT join the Horde. This is the important part:


    So no, the Zandalari most definetly were NOT part of the Horde before BOD and they are not part of it now. They are in an ALLIANCE with the Horde. Whether you like that or not is not important. There are no two ways to read this.
    Adding to that, the Alliance gets their orders to attack the city to prevent the Zandalari from joining the Horde. You may think of that plan what you will (I think it's not the smartest move), but it implies the Alliance knows the Zandalari are not yet part of the Horde.

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