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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    One doesn't actually follow from the other. Void could be afraid of Sylvanas just fine and feeding Alleria bullshit in order to convince her to kill Sylvanas at the same time. If anything, that's in line with how the Void acts.
    And the void being afraid of Sylvanas to me means that she intends to take away its fodder, which would mean actually ending existence before the void can consume it. Nothing else would make the void afraid. So either the void speaks the truth and is for the reason it gives afraid of Sylvanas or it is bullshitting Alleria. There's no in between here.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Except it is.

    Sylvanas, the crazy bitch who may or may not (now) have been involved in plaguing both Horde and Alliance forces at the Wrath Gate, has repeatedly deployed the Plague despite warnings from the rest of the Horde not to, and has threatened to raise her own soldiers into undeath on more than one occasion (And has, in fact, raised Horde into undeath since the Battle for Undercity) - Tells the Horde to go to war. (Blood covered chainsaw wielding murderer)

    Saurfang, the old friend who has fought alongside the Horde many a time - Lorthemar, who has stood with the Horde time and time again, even in it's worst times - Thrall, who formed the New Horde and led it into it's most prosperous times - ALL of them are now in cahoots and against Sylvanas and her Horde. (Friend trying to help you)
    Saurfang is a useless fool who only harps about honor, yet is unable to provide any actual solutions alternate to what he deems dishonorable. On top of that he disobeyed Sylvanas twice during this war, first time by refusing to kill Malfurion and undermining the very strategy he made. Which had some witnesses in the Horde. Higher ranked ones, but still. Then he refused the order to retreat right in front of the entirety of the Horde. Then he let himself get captured and even refused being rescued (again, with witnesses for that event), shitting all over what Orcs stand for in the process.

    Thrall is the original human appeaser, who constantly turned a blind eye to Alliance aggression even when Dwarves where intruding in the capital zone of his Tauren allies or, I dunno, declared the previous faction war. And his green guilt made him set Horde's capital in a barren shithole. Deliberately. To punish the Orcs. Even though at this point many Orcs in the Horde were those born in the camps, that had nothing to do with First and Second Wars. Barren shitholes don't result in prosperous anything.

    And Lor'themar stood with the Horde so much he was deliberating leaving the Horde right in front of Horde's champion because his scouts sucked at scouting and then tried to leave because Aethas and Rommath did not die during a Sha-in-the-box experiment they knew from the get go to be dangerous.

    And then there's Baine, who's, well, Baine.

    All the people in cahoots against Sylvanas are weak-willed when it comes to Alliance (if not outright sycophant in some cases) and their constant aggression against the Horde (even during Satanic apocalypse, over total bullshit no less) and Thrall was actively detrimental to his own people by trying to make them atone for his own green guilt.

    Also, Afrasiabi's blunder in the interview is meaningless for the Horde in-lore. Because whether Afrasiabi meant it that Sylvanas was behind Wrathgate or not, that doesn't change the fact that the Horde believed her assurances she was not and helped her reclaim her city instead of mounting her head on a spike. The only time she was actually warned against using Blight was in Gilneas, where she was ordered to do so because Garrosh wanted to use Gilneas campaign as a way to make the Forsaken to die out. And the only person she threatened to resurrect was Saurfang, after he publicly disobeyed her. And even then, it was to mock him. And (just like the example of her actually raising Horde members), happened after the Horde already followed her into war. So it couldn't exactly have been a consideration for them during their decision to follow.

  3. #83
    Immortal Syegfryed's Avatar
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    They believe that Sylvanas is the person who will bring an end to this. She’s the one who can unite the Horde in ways it’s never been before.
    Sylvanas will get us there.” The people know what Baine and Saurfang and Thrall lead to -- it’s just the same conflict they’ve seen. Sylvanas is bringing something no one’s ever brought before. So it’s interesting to see different sides of that. She has a plan.”
    the undead elf, what a pile of horseshit

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubbl3 View Post
    So Blizz now wants to make Sylvi the peace bringer? O.o
    Peace through killing everything alive and raise it in her service, or leave it dead. So it's correct she isn't Garrosh 2.0, but she is definately a 2.0 of someone we know...let me think. Oh, right, she's the Lich King 2.0, like that helps.

    If they Kerrigan her, I give up. For real. I will eat the missile sized bullet and leave wow in the dust, and if I get the mmo itch, I'll bite the other and give my money to squeenix. Same thing but far less lame in storytelling and less foaming at the mouth for the devs.


    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    the undead elf, what a pile of horseshit
    Pretty much. Wtf is Blizz devs smoking, I want some. Sounds strong enough to cure my depression for good.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Nah Sylvanas IS bringing something new. The potential for the complete genocide of the Alliance. THIS is the outcome the Horde races are cheering for. All the Alliance races destroyed or enslaved.
    Wasn't that literally Garrosh's plan? Exterminating everyone else so the Horde (well, Orcs) could be in "peace"?

    I really fail to see how that's anything new.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Wasn't that literally Garrosh's plan? Exterminating everyone else so the Horde (well, Orcs) could be in "peace"?

    I really fail to see how that's anything new.
    Well Garrosh is not the alternative to Sylvanas, Saurfang and Co. are.

  7. #87
    Bloodsail Admiral Animalhouse's Avatar
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    Sounds like a long, difficult and ridiculous way to form a council style government from what Morgan is saying.
    An end the to Warchief position that is based in Orc tradition and does not wholly represent the Horde.

    I like it but damn what a funny way to do it. Maybe schedule a meeting or something?
    “We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.”

  8. #88
    "She's not Garrosh, she's Trump!"

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Well Garrosh is not the alternative to Sylvanas, Saurfang and Co. are.
    I get that, but the interview makes it seem like what Sylvanas is proposing is totally new, when it's not. It's Garrosh with a "well she's not racist" addendum. And somehow the Horde believes what she sells (off-screen of course) despite the Alliance kicking our asses ever since Lordaeron?

    It's hard to take such statements seriously when they just aren't reflected in-game at all, first because Sylvanas never exposes her motivations beyond one box of dialog in a now non-existent event and second because we literally never hear or see the Horde's populace actually do anything, much less have opinions on anything.

    Still, it's not as bad as Tyrande's revenge apparently being done after she killed a random Val'kyr. RIP Night Elves once again.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    She's not Garrosh 2.0!

    Literally everything she's done so far can be mirrored with Garrosh. Even now, at this point in MoP story... remember how Garrosh went and got the heart of dead Old God? Sylvanas is getting the Blade of a Xal'atath... wait... didn't Garrosh start using a weapon that had a "Xal" aswell? Fucking christ it's literally the same beat for beat.

    Someone needs to make a thread with bulletins of it all, because it's crazy how similar everything they do is. She's even using his underground base @_@
    I’ve always said it’s an obvious misdirect down this “Garrosh” replication, where last minute/patch it will do a complete turn and go in a different direction and throw us off. I’m not sure if they think they’re clever by doing that, or whether that think it’s good writing, because it’s neither. They’ve kinda done Sylvanas dirty tbh. It’ll either end with her going off by herself or they’ll try and justify everything they’ve done with her by giving her a “hero” ending/sacrifice by saving everyone with some BS. It’s a mess either way.

  11. #91
    Immortal ArgusTheUnmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    I actually blame absolute garbage Blizz writing. But stabbed Azeroth didn't started the war. Sylvanas did. Alliance and Horde could work at healing Azeroth. By working together or even separately with suspicion. But randomly going "muh lets burn the tree for reasons" was purely a "gamification of the lore" stupid decision, it just made no sense for all the horde to follow Sylvanas in this direction.
    Sargeras' imprisonment was a mistake.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Nurasu View Post
    "She's not Garrosh, she's Trump!"
    I LOL'd so much after reading this! XDDDDDDD!!

    THIS IS BLIZZARD LOGIC!!
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

  13. #93
    Immortal Khaza-R's Avatar
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    They probably have plans for Sylvanas after BfA.

    She will probably not be a villain. The real issue is with the narrative design of that choice. If Sylvanas has some ulterior masterplan then it should be at the very least hinted about. Leaving the playerbase in the dark, trying to be purposely obscure in medium that takes months - years to forward the story is not smart. Its frustrating

  14. #94
    Give me WC3:R, Blizz! The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurasu View Post
    "She's not Garrosh, she's Trump!"
    The only good Trump is the one that plays Hearthstone!

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    They probably have plans for Sylvanas after BfA.

    She will probably not be a villain. The real issue is with the narrative design of that choice. If Sylvanas has some ulterior masterplan then it should be at the very least hinted about. Leaving the playerbase in the dark, trying to be purposely obscure in medium that takes months - years to forward the story is not smart. Its frustrating
    exactly. If they actually had a non-obvious plan for Syvlanas then the story should at least hint at it. Sudden asspull and then say aha surprise is extremely bad storytelling.

    At the very least, they can make Nathanos tell you something more cryptic but meaningful so people can speculate what she is doing, and not "play along for now, you'll see lulz"

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by david0925 View Post
    At the very least, they can make Nathanos tell you something more cryptic but meaningful so people can speculate what she is doing, and not "play along for now, you'll see lulz"
    Well, no, they can't. That'd imply any modicum of competency on their part, which they do not have.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Well, no, they can't. That'd imply any modicum of competency on their part, which they do not have.
    Man, I really wish some of your posts were sent to the "safe room" of the current writers, I am sure Golden will get a stroke
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    No, she is my waifu. Stop posting and delete this thread immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Voted Baine because... Well, Baine. Total nonsensical character, looks like World War II Italy, nobody really understands what role he's supposed to fill, not even himself

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    It already is MoP 2.0.

    If they remade MoP the same way they remade Classic, but at the end, they changed it so Garrosh is killed instead of gets away to start WoD, it'd still be MoP 2.0 too.

    Just because the end is different (but effectively the same since one way or another, no one is going to accept Sylvanas hanging around Azeroth so she's effectively written out of the story which is = if not worse than dead) doesn't mean the entire story leading up to the end is different.

    - - - Updated - - -



    No, shock value isn't interesting. It's precisely why things went wrong with the Burning of Teldrassil - Because if you're going for shock value, you aren't giving ANY of the clues needed for the audience to know what is going on. The audience will make assumptions of the story whether you want them to or not - And if there's NO POSSIBLE WAY to reason out what's about to occur, then it doesn't feel interesting at all.

    That's the thing. GoT did the same as Blizzard, and they're getting the same shit. You can pull shock value off, but not by ignoring your already-told story.

    Sylvanas would have had plenty of reasons beyond shock value to start the War of Thorns. But Blizzard ignored those reasons, because 'shock value.' It doesn't have the same impact if we know the Horde has grievances, but it WOULD make the entire war make a lot more sense if Sylvanas had earned the backing of the Horde in some way BEFORE the burning, which she didn't. Worse, this 'shock value' goes against everything we know of Sylvanas' character, so now it looks like they purposely caused her to act out of character JUST for shock value.

    GoT writers D&D admit that they wanted the story to be less predictable, so they took creative license with the ending. 8 seasons of character development, for multiple characters, that were leading up to the epic conclusion of the story - Thrown out the window for 'shock value.' Unanimously, everyone I know who liked GoT has fallen off the bandwagon now because every episode just makes the characters that much worse now. It's no longer a believable fantasy story. There was no point to watching all prior 7 seasons - None of the story leading up to it matters because the writers already admit they fucked with the ending for 'shock value.' All of the clues which made sense in context don't anymore, because the writers literally broke all of the prophecies George RR Martin wrote in.

    There is one good way to promote shock value: By saying nothing at all until it happens. Only by keeping people COMPLETELY in the dark, and not alluding to ANY kind of future in which this cannot happen, can you pull off shock value. That's why the Red Wedding worked. Because, while you had reason to believe those hosting would be mad at the Starks, you DIDN'T have reason to believe they were going to murder everyone - Until it happened. THAT was good shock value, and made sense given what had occurred.
    Keep believing what you want without looking at the facts lol

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by THEORACLE64 View Post
    I’ve always said it’s an obvious misdirect down this “Garrosh” replication, where last minute/patch it will do a complete turn and go in a different direction and throw us off. I’m not sure if they think they’re clever by doing that, or whether that think it’s good writing, because it’s neither. They’ve kinda done Sylvanas dirty tbh. It’ll either end with her going off by herself or they’ll try and justify everything they’ve done with her by giving her a “hero” ending/sacrifice by saving everyone with some BS. It’s a mess either way.
    Even if at the very end, they change it up... it's still Garrosh 2.0 because most of the expansion has been nearly beat for beat the same shit that happened in MoP. It might not be the same ending, but the journey is the same.

  20. #100
    Sylvanas might as well emerge from Stormwind harbor riding N'Zoth, with Xal'Atath in hand; and then firing a beam that will vaporize the whole city right before she raises all the corpses as undead under her command... and blizzard will still scream 'morally grey endgame that's totally not like Garrosh'.
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