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  1. #141
    Bloodsail Admiral Evaddon's Avatar
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    Well they should be reported to the Addon Creator, who could either sue them or gain half of the profit since they're using a property they didn't make to profit from them.

    Pretty scummy, another reason not to watch Twitch as if I needed more lol

  2. #142
    They're profiting of the time they took to make the string more than anything else.

    Time is money friend.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
    I do.. it says the code can't be obfuscated.. meaning you cannot use algorithms to make the code unreadable.

    Pretty much means don't compress it with minify algorithms.
    First of all, this is exactly what WA strings are. Encoded to 7bit safe compression (see: https://github.com/WeakAuras/WeakAur...ansmission.lua)

    Secondly, you didn't read the whole 2) but instead you made up your own definition. The relevant part of the sentence was "and must be freely accessible to and viewable by the general public."

    So quite clearly not "by subs only". The general public.

    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    WA scripts are not addons. WA itself is the addon covered by that policy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Annka View Post
    The addon is free, , the strings don't come with the addon
    That is certainly one interpretation of it. It might be the correct one, I don't know.
    But that opens very interesting options for other Addon creators.

    BossMods could be easily a framework for displaying encounter notifications - that part could be free. But the actual bars and alerts for each raid/dungeon could be sold as a separate package for Patreons only.
    Same with mods like Details. The base addon could just be framework that allows displaying combat events. The actual meters for DPS, Healing etc could be sold as separate packages.

    Almost every addon could be made into a "framework" and "content" pieces that would allow the authors to charge for them and bypass the policy.

    I don't think this was Blizzards intent with the policy, therefore I'm led to believe that even the strings are part of the Addon. The strings are completely useless without the framework of WA. But who knows really. Personally I think Blizzard should make some kind of judgement call, because it's completely unfair towards addon authors who are not allowed to do the same.
    Last edited by Greyscale; 2019-05-19 at 05:02 AM.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Greyscale View Post
    Nothing in GPL says you can't sell your code commercially though. The source just needs to be distributed openly when you do. And in this case the source is distributed with the WA's (because it's distributed in "source format"). This has nothing to do with GPL violations.
    I'm basing it on a legal opinion that Matt Mullenweg received from Software Freedom Law Center in regards to WordPress themes, since WordPress is also a GPL licensed software. In that opinion, the SFLC states that the PHP files, the ones that actually hook into WordPress itself, are "clearly derivative of WordPress code". Even more so since the PHP is making use of mostly WordPress function calls. The only things that are not GPL'd automatically in a theme are the CSS and JavaScript files.

    These WeakAuras are the same. They consist of function calls to WeakAuras.

    People can charge, yes. The GPL FAQ page already says this. But buyers are freely able to redistribute as well:

    If I distribute GPLed software for a fee, am I required to also make it available to the public without a charge?
    No. However, if someone pays your fee and gets a copy, the GPL gives them the freedom to release it to the public, with or without a fee. For example, someone could pay your fee, and then put her copy on a web site for the general public.
    So what the OP intends to do is 100% legal under the GPL.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Eosia View Post
    These WeakAuras are the same. They consist of function calls to WeakAuras.
    Yes, 100% agree that the WA strings are derivatives and therefore must also be distributed under GPL. I don't think I've ever implied otherwise, if I did, then apologies.

    The issue in this thread is (mostly) if someone is allowed to sell them for real money or not (or as a additional perk to a paid service, like a channel sub).

    GPL doesn't stop you from commercial distribution (as long as you publish the source code), so as long as you follow the license terms, you're OK to charge.
    Additionally there's also the Blizzard policy to consider. I've linked it several times in this thread so I won't reproduce it. It's also fairly clear in its intent.
    If the WA strings are derivatives (which they are), then the policy applies to the strings as well.

    All in all, I personally think anyone making the argument that charging for WAs is OK, is on thin ice.
    And anyone charging + not distributing the code is on even thinner ice because that's when GPL violations come in as well.
    Anyone re-distributing "commercial auras" is free to do so under GPL.

    If Blizzard (or the WA copyright holder) is going to do anything about any of it is of course entirely different matter.
    Last edited by Greyscale; 2019-05-19 at 02:32 PM.

  6. #146
    The Patient Yadryonych's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poe View Post
    That's not the point. The point is we need to stop people from profiting off something that should be free. Imagine if every addon creator in wow charged you $5 to download their addon. It's absurd.
    How about we stop people from paying for stuff like this instead. it's not sellers' fault there's plenty of not-so-smart people willing to waste their money just like that. It's not like they are profiting from selling water to firefighters

  7. #147
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    It's a ToS violation by charging money for code for add-ons. Report em and move on. Nothing will likely be done because Blizzard values streamers and add-on creators over regular players but still. It's absolutely the principle of the matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uggorthaholy View Post
    Thanks but no thanks, Lora, for making me question everything in existence forever.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    How about we stop people from paying for stuff like this instead.
    How would you go about doing that then?
    It's kinda hard to stop people from subbing to a Twitch channel?

  9. #149
    Yup, I did the same with Nogga's custom skin for raid frames. It used to be just posted for everyone, now its behind a paywall.
    Happily give it out freely on my channel.
    That kinda thing is not cool.

    If you have a resource that can make the community better, you should pass it along.
    That is what makes the internet a great place.
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  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Poe View Post
    That's not the point. The point is we need to stop people from profiting off something that should be free. Imagine if every addon creator in wow charged you $5 to download their addon. It's absurd.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Wago isn't the only place I can publicly give out weakauras. That was just an example.
    I just thought this is a weird statement. If someone is making something you like wouldn't you want to pay for it so they can afford to put more time into making more of the product you like?

  11. #151
    So someone creates something and charges for it. You want to take what they made and distribute it for free just because?

    1 - if you don't want to pay for it, don't.
    2 - Add on creator certainly can charge for their work. But the majority go by the way of asking for donations and Patreon support.
    3 - Grow up kid, because you certainly don't understand many things about compensation for doing work.
    4 - Respect the hustle.


    Quote Originally Posted by Poe View Post
    So I've noticed that a lot of WoW streamers sell their custom made weakauras. They do this by requiring you to be subscribed to their channel in order to use and download them ($5). So clearly that this isn't considered RMT for whatever reason, I feel like this is a grey area.

    What if I were to obtain their weakauras and I could start giving them out for free to the public. Would this be allowed? I have Sloot's weakaura and it's a pretty decent weakaura. However I don't like that you have to pay him money in order to use it, so I was thinking of just posting it somewhere public like Wago so everyone can use it.

    What do you guys think ?
    In a world of deceit, open your eyes.

  12. #152
    The Patient Annka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greyscale View Post
    First of all, this is exactly what WA strings are. Encoded to 7bit safe compression (see: https://github.com/WeakAuras/WeakAur...ansmission.lua)

    Secondly, you didn't read the whole 2) but instead you made up your own definition. The relevant part of the sentence was "and must be freely accessible to and viewable by the general public."

    So quite clearly not "by subs only". The general public.




    That is certainly one interpretation of it. It might be the correct one, I don't know.
    But that opens very interesting options for other Addon creators.

    BossMods could be easily a framework for displaying encounter notifications - that part could be free. But the actual bars and alerts for each raid/dungeon could be sold as a separate package for Patreons only.
    Same with mods like Details. The base addon could just be framework that allows displaying combat events. The actual meters for DPS, Healing etc could be sold as separate packages.

    Almost every addon could be made into a "framework" and "content" pieces that would allow the authors to charge for them and bypass the policy.

    I don't think this was Blizzards intent with the policy, therefore I'm led to believe that even the strings are part of the Addon. The strings are completely useless without the framework of WA. But who knows really. Personally I think Blizzard should make some kind of judgement call, because it's completely unfair towards addon authors who are not allowed to do the same.
    Ye might be or not be a violation but indeed the strings, whoever made it i don't see any problem in selling them if they made a really good one and they think they deserve some $$ for it, i don't know, that's just my opinion.

  13. #153
    I can't believe the shear entitlement in this thread, WA's + UIs take fucking ages (takes me DAYS to get my main and alts setup right when I do it myself but then again i'm a perfectionist but i'm certainly not alone in that) to get perfect and that's before you include rotation and boss / raid / mythic WA's... to actually suggest that when the technology exists and is easily accessible for streamers/viewers to monetise their time/work you have a right complain and be taken seriously, like bloody hell....

    If its against the ToS then what needs to happen is kinda obvious... change the ToS.

    If you don't like that just make them yourself and freely share instead of whining, I have never donated to anyone for anything but I didn't even think twice about subbing for Naowhs WAs + Elv UI Layout + his 2 fonts.

    If you can't make them yourself because its too difficult or takes too long, well....everyone has access to the same tools, if you want high quality, how the hell do you think you shouldn't have to pay for it?! o_O
    Last edited by Ech0544; 2019-05-19 at 03:28 PM.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Annka View Post
    Ye might be or not be a violation but indeed the strings, whoever made it i don't see any problem in selling them if they made a really good one and they think they deserve some $$ for it, i don't know, that's just my opinion.
    You're of course entitled to your opinion.
    In that case you'd probably support a marketplace for addons as well?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ech0544 View Post
    I can't believe the shear entitlement in this thread, WA's + UIs take fucking ages (takes me DAYS to get my main and alts setup right when I do it myself but then again i'm a perfectionist but i'm certainly not alone in that) to get perfect and that's before you include rotation and boss / raid / mythic WA's... to actually suggest that when the technology exists and is easily accessible for streamers/viewers to monetise their time/work you have a right complain and be taken seriously, like bloody hell....

    If its against the ToS then what needs to happen is kinda obvious... change the ToS.

    If you don't like that just make them yourself and freely share instead of whining, I have never donated to anyone for anything but I didn't even think twice about subbing for Naowhs WAs + Elv UI Layout + his 2 fonts.
    The point in this entire discussion is that - somehow you (and people who argue like you) think that making the actual strings is hard work, but the actual addon framework where it runs seems to be completely trivial piece of software and you don't think twice about installing it.

    How many of you are WA patreons? (They have 161 patreons giving them $383/month, but the addon has total of 54M downloads)

    Why this disparity? Why not support everyone getting their money, not just the popular streamers who hide their strings behind subs?
    The addon authors are not allowed to charge for their work. Yet somehow streamers are because they "work harder"?

    I find this logic hard to understand.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GGA1759 View Post
    2 - Add on creator certainly can charge for their work. But the majority go by the way of asking for donations and Patreon support..
    Because it's the only way they're allowed to "charge" for their work.
    Last edited by Greyscale; 2019-05-19 at 05:52 PM.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Except that WA is under a free licence agreement. By using WA to create and sell they are breaking the law. Why should one type of criminal profit and others not? OP would actually be honoring the licence agreement. OP is in fact obligated to either report to the authorities or release the WA.
    Indeed. WA is published under the GNU GPLv2 license. This is a copyleft license. Copyleft, distinguished from copyright, is the practice of offering people the right to freely distribute copies and modified versions of a work with the stipulation that the same rights be preserved in derivative works created later.

    So the 'streamer' can ask for a donation or subscription, but if he tries to enforce that rule he is breaking the license. Furthermore, apart from the licensing issue, Blizzard specifically denies this right to charge in any way for Addons or restrict their distribution of inspection. And yes, this can not be circumvented by separating the addon in a framework part and a configurations string.

    Streamers can make money from their creative works, but not in this way as that would break licences and ToS's they accepted.
    The OP has every right to redistribute and in doing so would comply both in terms as well as in spirit with the applied license.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by HuxNeva View Post
    The OP has every right to redistribute and in doing so would comply both in terms as well as in spirit with the applied license.
    In the case of sloot's WAs I don't think this is actually true since he literally created assets for the WAs you have to download manually and put them in the proper folders. He's not "charging" you for the script, you can literally find 100s of WAs that do the same things his do you are paying him for the custom assets used in them- because he had to pay to get them made in the first place.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poe View Post
    That's not the point. The point is we need to stop people from profiting off something that should be free. Imagine if every addon creator in wow charged you $5 to download their addon. It's absurd.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Wago isn't the only place I can publicly give out weakauras. That was just an example.
    So your issue is that they aren't making something for you for free?

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Ech0544 View Post
    I can't believe the shear entitlement in this thread, WA's + UIs take fucking ages (takes me DAYS to get my main and alts setup right when I do it myself but then again i'm a perfectionist but i'm certainly not alone in that) to get perfect and that's before you include rotation and boss / raid / mythic WA's... to actually suggest that when the technology exists and is easily accessible for streamers/viewers to monetise their time/work you have a right complain and be taken seriously, like bloody hell....

    If its against the ToS then what needs to happen is kinda obvious... change the ToS.

    If you don't like that just make them yourself and freely share instead of whining, I have never donated to anyone for anything but I didn't even think twice about subbing for Naowhs WAs + Elv UI Layout + his 2 fonts.

    If you can't make them yourself because its too difficult or takes too long, well....everyone has access to the same tools, if you want high quality, how the hell do you think you shouldn't have to pay for it?! o_O
    The copyleft licenses and ToS exactly 'entitle' to the people full redistribution rights.
    This practice has benefited the WoW community, and has resulted in a vibrant ecosystem of UI enhancements.

    You seem to be the one whining, wanting to 'fix' something that not only clearly isn't broken.

    You seem to be the greedy 'entitled' poster that 'demands' the rules should be changed to comply with your own illusions of financialization. 'If you want quality, you have to pay for it'. Seriously? LOL!

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Streaming is a job as much as hosting the news, or acting is. If the streamer didn't have a personality people didn't want to watch, they wouldn't make any money.
    lol good one.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    In the case of sloot's WAs I don't think this is actually true since he literally created assets for the WAs you have to download manually and put them in the proper folders. He's not "charging" you for the script, you can literally find 100s of WAs that do the same things his do you are paying him for the custom assets used in them- because he had to pay to get them made in the first place.
    Whether he paid for those assets or not is irrelevant.
    The means through which it is distributed is irrelevant.
    If he is trying to enforce a commercial arrangement for a WoW addon (or assets used therein) he breaks the UI Add-On Development Policy

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