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  1. #1
    The Patient Grayjoy's Avatar
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    Blizzard, apathy, and the Alliance

    I’ll be as succinct as possible:

    It’s really depressing to play a faction that is clearly de-prioritized in terms of development and care and has been since Cata.

    It’s baffling to read interviews where Tyrande’s arc is considered done and “vengeance” achieved.

    It’s downright bizarre to see an entire race in WoW’s genocide used as a plot device for Blizzard to show how it made the Horde sad.

    It feels pointless to play a faction that will always be reactive, devoid of agency and intrigue.

    And it just sucks to invest a lot of time, passion, and imagination into this game when I finally realize the people who create it have none for the side I like playing.

    It’s just a bummer, man. Not the end of the world or anything, but it’s just frustrating and at this point, playing Alliance truly feels like you’ve made the wrong choice, because you’re playing a side of WoW that the WoW team just honestly doesn’t seem invested in or passionate about.

    After seeing the multiple extra questlines, branching story choices, cinematics, all focused on the Horde, it’s just nakedly obvious which players Blizzard cares about (even if you hate the story, the attention is there) and for the life of me I just don’t get it. I really don’t.

  2. #2
    Yeah the Horde story is so amazing. Everyone is talking about how great it is. You should probably quit the game.

  3. #3
    Immortal Khaza-R's Avatar
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    I have mixed feelings this expansion.

    For one, its nice to feel like the Alliance aren't just pushovers. Yes we lost Teldrassil. But ever since then its pretty clear the Alliance is winning the war. If anything the dev remarks are confirmation that Alliance canonically win Darkshore. They probably also win Arathi as well given the Horde base was completely made up from no where.

    On the other hand, it doesn't feel like the Alliance has evolved any. We've replaced Varian with Anduin. Other Alliance races still obey his every command without question. We were so close to having interesting conflict between Tyrande, Genn and Anduin but its now abandoned. So for that I completely agree. The Horde is getting all the development and the Alliance is continuing to stagnate.

  4. #4
    It's easy to understand, really. In a game that has two playable factions with you as the developer unwilling to lift the faction-split, you of course focus your entire efforts on just one of the two.

    Without the sarcasm:
    When BFA was announced and we knew how 8.0 would play out....my suspicion was that the faction-split would die at the end of the expansion with the Horde losing the war and Anduin, being the guy he is, would disband the Alliance at this moment, too, because a defeated Horde would never accept to be "absorbed" into the Alliance....but Anduin putting everybody on equal footing by disbanding the remaining faction and then creating some kind of council? Could work. In this scenario it would totally make sense for BFA to be a Horde-Only-Expansion because they get shafted the most at the end.

    But now, more than one year later, i don't think it will go down like this. Sylvanas may leave...but the Faction-Split will stay...and the Horde will continue to take one Alliance zone after the other, turning Alliance races into refugees and beggars...while everybody cries about Camp Taurajo on the forums.

    I think the old Human joke sums up Blizzard's plans for the Alliance very well:
    "Sometimes you lose. Sometimes the others win."

  5. #5
    The Patient Grayjoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    I have mixed feelings this expansion.

    For one, its nice to feel like the Alliance aren't just pushovers. Yes we lost Teldrassil. But ever since then its pretty clear the Alliance is winning the war. If anything the dev remarks are confirmation that Alliance canonically win Darkshore. They probably also win Arathi as well given the Horde base was completely made up from no where.

    On the other hand, it doesn't feel like the Alliance has evolved any. We've replaced Varian with Anduin. Other Alliance races still obey his every command without question. We were so close to having interesting conflict between Tyrande, Genn and Anduin but its now abandoned. So for that I completely agree. The Horde is getting all the development and the Alliance is continuing to stagnate.
    Very well put. The stagnation and lack of creativity are starting to gnaw at me, and while the Horde story is messy for different reasons, it feels like the Horde get stories told at least.

  6. #6
    Mommy, I want fancy cutscenes! GIMME GIMME GIMME!!!!!

  7. #7
    The Patient Grayjoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    Mommy, I want fancy cutscenes! GIMME GIMME GIMME!!!!!
    Oh no trust me, you're totally right haha. It's fundamentally a petty concern, but it all speaks to a larger frustration Alliance players have. And hey maybe Mommy could actually give us some damn cookies for once.

  8. #8
    I think the problem is less that the Alliance don't get cool cutscenes, and more that it shows where the priorities lie.

    I mean, after playing both factions through several expansions it's been pretty obvious for a long time that the Horde are the ones who drive the faction war story. But for the Alliance to be so faceless and unremarkable in a story that's supposed to be about both factions is pretty frustrating. I wanted to see the Alliance change, maybe have some conflict, grow in identity and maybe show other sides of it than the "human king" angle.

    But this is just an expansion about the Horde again. As it was last time, and as it always is when the faction conflict returns. This time around it doesn't even feel like they give enough of a shit about the Alliance to pretend to give them a story.

  9. #9
    It might have to do with why people would play horde vs alliance to begin with. I've seen a lot of people say they prefer horde because they see them as rebels, outcasts, etc.. Orcs seem to be the biggest aggressors on the horde (also in general), and it's a huge plot point that they became like that because of drinking mannoroth's man-juice (joke intended), and they were more nature-loving, honorable, shamanistic family-oriented hunter-gatherer types prior to that. There would be less civil conflicts in the current story if orcs hadn't wrecklessly destroyed their own world, then tried to invade the human world. It does still annoy me how non-combative alliance is prior to an instigation, because I mean, everyone posting on these forums is in the same race as 1 of the alliance races and us always being reactive is literally not how it always seems to go in a real situation, so it just feels unrealistic that there are no major problems spouting from alliance.

    Despite that I've known a lot of others that have played both horde and alliance and people play horde because they're cooler, and they play alliance because they give an overall more cheery view (cities are brighter for the most part, the races on alliance tend to be more peaceful and loving in general - for a few examples) and are more aesthetically pleasing. If you consider this, than I think if the writers making the alliance suddenly the antagonizers it would end up changing that perception. Humans are the only real race, though, and playing games like WoW is about escapism, if nothing else. Who wants to play a game where we're all the bad guys? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, that there wouldn't be people that wouldn't want it, but people might choose horde vs alliance based on how they feel, especially if you're newer or aren't trying to min.-max your stats.

    To shorten my response, it's a game, it's about escapism, people don't want to feel bad when they're doing something to try and relax. People make that choice, and their choices vary.

  10. #10
    I'm not remorseful that there is a lack of intrigue. The worse we got was a Tyrande tirade, and honestly i don't want to see racial leaders fall like flies from stupid decisions.

    I do dislike the passiveness though. Though i guess something was done with the battle of Dazar'alor.

    Maybe revel on the fact that the alliance always has to win. Because if they didn't the world would end.

    Though i would like for something surprising like Orgrimmar being burnt down by Anduin cause of his father promise. I think he is too nice for that though.
    Maybe as an accident he calls down a vengeful blast of light that destroys it in one go, opening the way for a "naughty" light expansion.

    I confess i dislike Orgrimmar as a city on my horde. So, i'd welcome a change to Silvermoon/thunder bluff or building a new city. With that said, it would be too much work for blizz, i suppose. Having to relocate all those vendors and quests.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2019-05-16 at 01:31 AM.

  11. #11
    The Patient Grayjoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    I think the problem is less that the Alliance don't get cool cutscenes, and more that it shows where the priorities lie.

    I mean, after playing both factions through several expansions it's been pretty obvious for a long time that the Horde are the ones who drive the faction war story. But for the Alliance to be so faceless and unremarkable in a story that's supposed to be about both factions is pretty frustrating. I wanted to see the Alliance change, maybe have some conflict, grow in identity and maybe show other sides of it than the "human king" angle.

    But this is just an expansion about the Horde again. As it was last time, and as it always is when the faction conflict returns. This time around it doesn't even feel like they give enough of a shit about the Alliance to pretend to give them a story.
    Completely agree. I'm a crazy person who enjoys the faction conflict, and it feels ridiculous to have it yet again be a Horde civil war rather than Horde v Alliance as each other's foil.

  12. #12
    I've said this before but I'll say it again. Being lawful good as a coalition of people really limits the possibilities of lore. Players don't want to see the Alliance constantly reacting to what the Horde does because it would be the same cinematic over and over again.

    Meanwhile the Horde keeps going chaotic neutral at best, creating two villains now that both factions need to fight. Of course the Horde is going to get more cinematics.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    I think the problem is less that the Alliance don't get cool cutscenes, and more that it shows where the priorities lie.

    I mean, after playing both factions through several expansions it's been pretty obvious for a long time that the Horde are the ones who drive the faction war story. But for the Alliance to be so faceless and unremarkable in a story that's supposed to be about both factions is pretty frustrating. I wanted to see the Alliance change, maybe have some conflict, grow in identity and maybe show other sides of it than the "human king" angle.

    But this is just an expansion about the Horde again. As it was last time, and as it always is when the faction conflict returns. This time around it doesn't even feel like they give enough of a shit about the Alliance to pretend to give them a story.
    Last expansion Gen attacked Sylvanas' fleet in Stormheim out of nowhere for no reason and hunted down our Warchief. Then the faction war was over in Legion and the Alliance took the reigns of the story for the rest of the expansion with not a single Horde character doing anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Close, but no cigar. The lesson is "Green Jesus knows the way, infidel."

  14. #14
    Trust me, the price of this "focus" is to have your characters reduced to total caricatures, one way or another. I'm not sure you actually want that.

    Besides, it's not so bad for the Alliance. Saurfang gets his story told in CGI thanks to being able to reuse his model, while Jaina easily holds half the in-game cinematics hostage by herself.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Grayjoy View Post
    Completely agree. I'm a crazy person who enjoys the faction conflict, and it feels ridiculous to have it yet again be a Horde civil war rather than Horde v Alliance as each other's foil.
    I want a Cata faction war where it was actually an all out war between the factions that made sense. Not a "bomb X alliance city with X nuke device. Discover X old god thing. Have Thrall with the Alliance come try to take the Horde back. Alliance wags fingers."
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Dickmann View Post
    Close, but no cigar. The lesson is "Green Jesus knows the way, infidel."

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Grayjoy View Post
    Very well put. The stagnation and lack of creativity are starting to gnaw at me, and while the Horde story is messy for different reasons, it feels like the Horde get stories told at least.
    At this point in time I'd prefer stagnating over the sheer lunacy going on with Sylvanas. Sorry, Sylvanus. She's clearly going balls to the wall homicidal, yet the devs be like "she has the hearts of the horde". Bulshit.

    Having multiple choice for morality is all fine and dandy with me, but one side is being thrown under the bus here, and is entirely irrelevant to alliance, they're just running errands for Anduin and being affected by a gracious dose of Feeblemind (sadly also goes for the Horde here, ugh) when the plot requires unreasonable amounts of stupidity to move it forward. Most recently; Xalatath and N'zoth. Christ. It might be appealing for shadow priests, but anyone else would be in their right mind to not touch that shit with a 10ft pole.

  17. #17
    Salty Feline Overlord Beerbill Society's Avatar
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    RIP Alliance, 15 years dead this year... And some people claim there is no bias.

    I just gave up already.

    I get what you are saying OP, you as a player invest time and emotional commitment to the game and it's characters and it doesn't feel rewarding at all, unfortunately it's impossible to archieve this in Ally. People will just come here and claim you are crying.
    Last edited by Beerbill Society; 2019-05-16 at 01:41 AM.
    Ah, you think there is bias for ally? You merely adopted the faction bias. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see alliance have a nice thing until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but bullshit!

    "My name is Legion: for we are many." - Mark 5:9
    My characters :3

  18. #18
    The Patient Grayjoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    I want a Cata faction war where it was actually an all out war between the factions that made sense. Not a "bomb X alliance city with X nuke device. Discover X old god thing. Have Thrall with the Alliance come try to take the Horde back. Alliance wags fingers."
    Cata-era faction war got me re-invested in the story for the first time since WC3. Loved Garrosh as a villain for my faction, loved the ambiguity of it all, loved the fact it was a roiling background conflict. I had high hopes for BfA's faction war, and it's a bummer they didn't commit to crafting a great story out of it for either side.

  19. #19
    I absolutely couldn't agree more. I thought the same thing watching the new trailer. Just how many Horde / Saurfang trailers do we have to watch? Have they forgotten that the home of 2 Alliance races was burnt to cinders, and yes, genoicde was committed in the process?

    Between the part of the dark side of Elune that Maiev was explaining, and now the snide hints from Azshara, clearly there is a huge story to be told not just in Tyrande's vengeance, but also Malfurion's breaking of his own peaceful ways, and what is going on with Elune? Are the Night Elves thinking about breaking away from the inactive, passive Alliance? Clearly the Worgen would join the Night Elves. Alleria is anything but the passive type, and since it's a family problem, I bet she'd be happy to ally herself too. So much potential - and need - to explain Alliance stories and ............................................ such a lack of Godamn interest from Blizzard. It's a joke. We're all invested in the storytelling, RP or fantasy parts to different extents, clearly we are, and from Blizzard interviews they seem to respect and encourage that, yet as you say, you feel absolutely short-changed when you see developments like this happen, pretty much the opening of BfA to the long roll of Horde cinematics.

    Mind you, with plenty of evidence of subscriptions tumbling off a cliff, we are long beyond veiled threats, I watched the trailer reactions of a few Youtubers, and a few said they still wouldn't resub......

    By the way, may I ask if you recall which dev interviews you came across where they suggest Tyrande's arc is done? I'm unhappy to read about that tbh.

  20. #20
    There is Horde favoritism since like forever. Alliance can only play the part of suckers every expansion and forced to suck up and make peace with the Hordies at the end of the day. Hordies never lose

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