The Raiding Dilemma

[Azerate]

Join a semi decent heroic raiding guild. They will usually take you if you are decked out with gear available in the world content (so about 400ish right now). After you raid with them for a while and conclude that you are good enough, you can try to apply to a mythic raiding guild instead, or just remain in the laid back heroic guild.

So much easier than messing around in pugs and not getting anywhere.

[Arainie]

If you're not interested in joining a guild (like everyone else recommends, this is always going to be the best option), do what almost everyone else has done. Start at the bottom, join Normal runs without item level requirements, get the achievement. Join a Heroic run that's listed as a progress/learning run and wipe a bit with others who lack experience. Get the required experience on your own and then up the standards. Not many people just manage to hop in to the game, clear Ahead of the Curve in one raid and be done with it. The only way to do that is if you have friends boosting you.

I myself pugged a few raids (varying success rate) in late BC, joined a 10 man guild that progressed through Kara and ZA and then when our expansion to 25Man failed in early WotLK I wrote a 4 page application to a 25Man guild and got accepted instantly because I put some effort in to it. I've only had to properly apply to one more guild ever since then, making friends in WoW is a wonderful thing. Start somewhere that suits you, and don't expect that anyone will give you a free ride. It's not WoW or the players you can blame, it's the fact that spots are limited, competition is high and it's never been any different than that.

[ceall]

1. Join a guild that solely raids through normal/heroic (usually that's a guild among top 3k-10k).
2. Get experience there and always try your best to maximise your dps while minimizing your damage taken.

If you can consistently achieve 80%+ logs, then:

3. Join a low tier mythic guild (for dazar alor that would be one with max 4 or 5 of 9 downed). These guilds should be around the top 2k-3k.
4. Repeat step 2.

If you consistently achieve 70%+ mythic logs, then:

5. Join a guild that can clear the mythic content (usually the top 1-1500). If you're a decent player who wants to clear mythic within a reasonable amount of time, you'll be settling around the top 500-1000 mark.

Extra step (to be used as 1.5 and 3.5) get yourself geared up (through the raiding) and as soon as you are part of a guild, do at least a mythic+10 dungeon per week with your guild mates. Within a guild Noone will look at your r.io score, so you're safe to get these free 410 pieces every week.


Tldr: join a guild that suits your playstyle.

[clevin]

and how many people want to join and stay in a group led by a fresh raider ? This is no solution.
Blizzard should add a mentoring program of sorts. To reward people helping

Like a... guild??

Quit acting like PUGs are the only or even the best way to raid. They're not. Join a guild raiding at the live you want to raid at. Don't expect to hop into mythic right off... Don't expect to get carried. But there are a ton of guilds who run normal and heroic and either don't touch mythic or do it lightly. Find one, join it.

[glowpipe]

Like a... guild??

Quit acting like PUGs are the only or even the best way to raid. They're not. Join a guild raiding at the live you want to raid at. Don't expect to hop into mythic right off... Don't expect to get carried. But there are a ton of guilds who run normal and heroic and either don't touch mythic or do it lightly. Find one, join it.

Guilds. Have you tried recruiting people and join a guild as of late ? I don't pug at all, i lead my own raiding guild. But there are million guilds looking for players and hardly any players looking for a guild. Guild raiding is not a big part of this game anymore. With the flexible lockout system, its so much easier to pug then find a guild and stick with it. Even our own guild members tend to pug the raid before they join again in our raids We have been looking for members since day 1 of bfa, So has all the other guilds looking for members on the same server group. Everytime you post your recruitment macro, they post theirs, same people throughout.

[Twdft]

Everytime you post your recruitment macro, they post theirs, same people throughout.

You could raid together, can't use master looter anyway.

[glowpipe]

You could raid together, can't use master looter anyway.

could yeah, but then thats basically pugging or merging. And thats a pandoras box on its own.

We actually dodged a bullet with merging in legion. Was in talks with a guild leader, but for some reason we didn't do it. Later i got a letter from one of their ex officers who told me they planned to strip us of the best members and kick the rest, not give us any power, even tho when we talked, they said we would have equal say in every guild decision etc. So i for one, is never trusting a merger ever again.

[crakerjack]

Either join a guild or just spam apply to every raid that fits your criteria. Eventually you'll get into one assuming you're not super undergeared. Once you're in the group, just make sure you're as prepared as you need to be. Know the fights and how to efficiently play your class. If you fail either one of those, then chances are you're going to get kicked. If you need to learn your class, simply go on icey veins and if you need to learn the fight for any particular difficulty, just simply use the Adventurers guide and youtube.

[MidnyteTV]

The OP raised the ultimate question in an MMORPG. How do I get into something when I have nobody to help me get there?

This is what separates a player who picks up the game and then drops it over someone who plays for years.

I had the help of RL friends during Wrath getting me into raiding. Without them, I would not have spent thousands of hours and thousands of dollars on this game.

If we truly love the game and want to have more people to play with, people like the OP should be the MOST important person we should listen to and help out.

I should know, because i was him. And when I ran two guilds, I helped out dozens of people live out their dreams in this silly little game. Along with helping the game overall as well as making sure BLizzard could keep the lights on.

[Osmeric]

You really need to find a guild, and a guild with which you will fit. It's not pleasant otherwise.

This means you need to be good enough for that guild. So make sure they're going to want you.

[MidnyteTV]

You really need to find a guild, and a guild with which you will fit. It's not pleasant otherwise.

This means you need to be good enough for that guild. So make sure they're going to want you.

Unfortunately this is easier said than done.

Guilds nowadays do not have the patience/time/will to get a new player into raiding. Hence why the subs and raiding numbers overall are down.

The OP will have to find some friends who will take the time and show him the ropes, as well as give him that invite.

I think we all need to remember where we came from in this game. Somewhere down the line, some person/guild gave us an opportunity to raid. Unless of course you were a GM day one and were awesome at the game (very few were).

[Beatman]

You guys know that there are servers with no raiding guilds, right?

[clevin]

Guilds. Have you tried recruiting people and join a guild as of late ? I don't pug at all, i lead my own raiding guild. But there are million guilds looking for players and hardly any players looking for a guild. Guild raiding is not a big part of this game anymore. With the flexible lockout system, its so much easier to pug then find a guild and stick with it. Even our own guild members tend to pug the raid before they join again in our raids We have been looking for members since day 1 of bfa, So has all the other guilds looking for members on the same server group. Everytime you post your recruitment macro, they post theirs, same people throughout.

And yeah, I've done the recruitment thing on low-medium pop servers and it's a pain in the ass. Most of the raids now are, I think, part guild and part PUG but that's kind of my point. A lot of people want to PUG raid and don't want to join guilds but the easiest, best solution for people like OP are... guilds. Normal and Heroic are flex size so they can take night off if they need to, normal is piss-easy so as long as they're an average player they'll be fine and by time they're done with normal they can move to heroic.


Sadly, Blizzard has built a game that continually has devalued being a a guild ever since 3.3.

- - - Updated - - -

You guys know that there are servers with no raiding guilds, right?

Well, if OP is on one of those they'll need to server transfer.

But even my crappy little server (Alleria-US) has 20 guilds with at least one boss down in CoS and a bunch who've cleared heroic Battle, some of whom are in mythic there. Normal? At least 68 guilds have killed at least a few normal bosses. It's not world ranking etc but for someone looking to get into raiding, there's a lot of guilds out here spanning the gamut from 'fucking around in normal' to 'killing shit in mythic'. And Alleria is at best medium pop.

[RoKPaNda]

Join one of those spammy guilds, they usually clear normal and heroic. Do a couple raids with them. Then you're ready to pug at a more comfortable schedule for you. Repeat each tier. Or try to join a guild that fits your schedule.

[parasight]

All of the information that you need to raid is there. The only dilemma is lack of effort.

Raid mechanics are available on day 1, or earlier. Go read them.

Create your own groups. Get yourself some management experience.

Be callous. Don't care about what other people say. People, 99% of the time, don't have all of the information and are cruel jerks. Mostly because of the faceless nature of the internet. Ignore this rubbish.

Keep running into the wall, but do the things to turn that into progression. All of the good advice is out there. You have to search for it.

An old chess grandmaster once said that being good is 1/3rd playing, 1/3rd watching, and 1/3rd research. Embrace this. Everyone that plays WoW has the ability to do the things to improve their situation, but not everyone puts forth enough effort.

[Spotnick]

Look for teaching runs, they have lower requirements.

[Marmot]

wow ur so fkn smart, how come no one every thinks of this.

thx bb xoxo

[quite an expert in wow]

Unfortunately this is easier said than done.

Guilds nowadays do not have the patience/time/will to get a new player into raiding. Hence why the subs and raiding numbers overall are down.

The OP will have to find some friends who will take the time and show him the ropes, as well as give him that invite.

I think we all need to remember where we came from in this game. Somewhere down the line, some person/guild gave us an opportunity to raid. Unless of course you were a GM day one and were awesome at the game (very few were).

Is this even based on your own experience? There are SO many guilds recruiting on wowprogress. Just saying 'guilds don't have the patience or time' for the sake of countering the argument is not really nice.

Again, OP can't expect people will boost him. Follow the path like everyone else -> LFR -> normal -> heroic -> mythic. Plenty of guilds who raid any of those.

[MidnyteTV]

Is this even based on your own experience? There are SO many guilds recruiting on wowprogress. Just saying 'guilds don't have the patience or time' for the sake of countering the argument is not really nice.

Again, OP can't expect people will boost him. Follow the path like everyone else -> LFR -> normal -> heroic -> mythic. Plenty of guilds who raid any of those.

Yes this is based on my own experience but also looking at what the requirements guilds are currently asking for.

Yes, there are tons of guild looking for people, but I could not find one guild doing any sort of mythic content advertising for brand new players that have never raided before. Show me and we'll discuss it further. I'll wait.

I don't think the OP is expecting people to boost him, I think he is trying to find some way to get into it but doesn't seem to know how.

Also, it is pretty logical for a guild progressing through mythic content to NOT want a brand new raider into their guild. They need people to help them NOW, not months from now. While I don't blame them, overall the raiding population is no longer what it was pre-wrath in which there was a desire to make new friends and build a player from the ground up.

Players now (and this is evident through sentiment online) want the path of least resistance, they want to instantly find the players they need in order to get through content. So it leaves people like the OP behind....

- - - Updated - - -

Guilds always say they're recruiting and that it's so hard to find people, but then they expect 410+ ilvl and 99th percentile logs for their 8/9 Heroic "progression guild". So eh.

That's precisely my argument unfortunately he failed to see that.

[Osmeric]

Yes, there are tons of guild looking for people, but I could not find one guild doing any sort of mythic content advertising for brand new players that have never raided before.

Well there's your problem. You should have been looking for a lesser, non-Mythic raiding guild.