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  1. #501
    Anung un Rama Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    So then how can someone be Islamophobic in the first place, Endus?
    Are you expecting me to rationalize an objectively irrational point of view, or something?

  2. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowClassic View Post
    It was disingenuous hand-waving and didn't even attempt to grapple with the argument or data. Even if one grants that the site is propagandistic in nature, the data is not a matter of opinion, it's either veridical or not. If you have relevant evidence to the contrary then I would be glad to see it, likewise if you know of a more neutral source that lists this data then I would be happy to use this to make my argument instead.



    Are you suggesting there are any other groups that even come close to these numbers? There have been thousands upon thousands of Islamist atrocities since 9/11. It is self-evidently orders of magnitude higher than any other group you could list on a global scale, and so to even talk about comparisons is obscene.

    The obsession with neutrality in the face of these realities is an unfailing sign of moral confusion and grotesque ignorance.
    The data is most defiantly a matter of opinion as non of it is sourced. The site literally backs up nothing and when questioned they say in there QA that it’s because story’s can change which is a bull excuse.

  3. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    Decided to watch the video finally. The guy in the video is anti-semitic, homophobic, and sensationalist. I regret every moment I spent listening to his rant.
    Yeah, when I heard that he started talking shit about the Bernstein fellow, less than a minute in, I turned it off. Doesn't surprise me that the right wingers are cheering him and this little alt-right white supremacist darling on.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cizr View Post
    Yes I saw this but where is video of her saying it?
    Youtube took it down. How can you not understand this?
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  4. #504
    The Insane Boomzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Are you expecting me to rationalize an objectively irrational point of view, or something?
    No, I'm expecting you to rationalize the description of Islamophobia if the of Islamophobia makes no sense based on your view of Religion being so loose and variable that you can't even really call people with alterations of Islam believers in Islam.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xisa View Post
    You had your chance to make something special of this, Internet, and you fucked it up.
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    We are in this thread with Elba, therefore we are all Elba.

  5. #505
    Anung un Rama Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    No, I'm expecting you to rationalize the description of Islamophobia if the of Islamophobia makes no sense based on your view of Religion being so loose and variable that you can't even really call people with alterations of Islam believers in Islam.
    I didn't say the latter thing.

    I said trying to describe "Islam" beyond the broadest strokes is nearly impossible due to the variations among its followers.

  6. #506
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The argument and data were bullshit propaganda.

    That's all the "grappling" a hate-speech site deserves.

    "Those numbers" are complete horseshit to begin with. That's the point.

    The entire idea of trying to justify hatemongering against a religious group because of the actions of a few extremists is such horseshit it deserves nothing but denigration and contempt.
    I mean just screaming "hate" isn't the most convincing argument, although I know it's fashionable these days. I'm surprised you haven't used the world Islamaphobe a few times already though. I can see you are utterly unreachable, but your opinions are ignorant and harmful to our culture so I'll just leave this here for anyone that actually might be open-minded on these questions:


  7. #507
    High Overlord CamdenQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    Any chance of some context or actual information to make a judgement or you just trying to peddle some outrage to people who don't understand that Free Speech means fuck all on private platforms?
    Actually, in America at least Free Speech means quite a lot on private platforms, because a platform does not have editorial control over the information that travels across it, but also don't have liability for it. This way, if someone says something libelous/slanderous on the platform, those running the platform cannot be sued.

    Publishers do have editorial control, but they have greater liability as well. If a publisher's product is used to spread libelous/slanderous material, the publisher is liable right along with the author.

    Now, both platforms and publishers are liable if they allow illegal materials to be transmitted across their product, such as incitement to violence or child pornography (the platform is not liable if they can show that they did not allow this, and they take action against it any time they're made aware of it).

    The problem with websites like YouTube and Twitter is that they're claiming to be platforms, like you claimed for them, but they're acting like publishers anyway.

    If a website has any say in the content being spread on it (beyond obvious things like preventing illegal activity or ensuring that for instance a forum doesn't get off topic), then they need to be held liable when libel/slander is spread on it.

    Either YouTube stays out of the debate, or they need to be held accountable for their part in it.

    At the end of the day, screaming "private company! private company!" does not absolve these websites of responsibility for their one-sided practices.

    That's before we even get into the fact that YouTube especially actively courted many of the content creators they have now demonitized or banned. They advertised their product as a way for them to make money, often contacting the creators directly and soliciting their business personally, and then kicked these people off the site for doing exactly what they had always been doing.

    This gets into the "false advertising" legal territory.

  8. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    No, I'm expecting you to rationalize the description of Islamophobia if the of Islamophobia makes no sense based on your view of Religion being so loose and variable that you can't even really call people with alterations of Islam believers in Islam.
    i feel like people like this have never read a single line of any holy text.

    i've read the bible from start to finish. there's times it tells you to be peaceful, and times it tells you to be violent. it is a guide for a person to live their life according to god's will. in general, it wants you to be peaceful. but if someone breaks biblical law, it sets punishments for that violation.

    it does muddy itself a bit, because you are required to obey the laws of the land, which are usually counter to biblical law. so an abortion clinic bomber IS somewhat breaking his religion's commands. but i can't remember if there's anything comparable to islam's matyrdom in christianity. if there is, then bam, there's your excuse to get to heaven.
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  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post

    But you continue living in ignorance, come back when you have real proof that Vox is worse than any right leaning source that you can find.
    Never said Vox was worse nor do i care about right leaning sites or left leaning sites. I said that Vox is a joke. Did you even read your own link? I noticed you glossed over the description of the strong left bias. Each to their own i guess.

    It is odd that the site you link said that 'A factual search reveals that the Daily Signal has not failed a fact check' but its 'Factual Reporting: MIXED' Sound like they are both propagandists. They frame the facts in a way complement their narrative. Both sound like a poor sources to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Noxx79 View Post
    You’re the one whining about and defending it, so...
    Since i am doing neither....

  10. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    The data is most defiantly a matter of opinion as non of it is sourced. The site literally backs up nothing and when questioned they say in there QA that it’s because story’s can change which is a bull excuse.
    Data is objective and therefore by definition not a matter of opinion, it's either true data or false data. I expect a site run by volunteers to contain some number of inconsistencies or errors, that is a given, but as a general ballpark estimate of the number of global Islamist attacks I have not seen any evidence to suggest it is wildly fabricated or off the mark. I don't need absolute precision to make my case, anyone who looks at the number of people being killed every month by Islamist extremists and doesn't conclude that this is the greatest ideological threat the world faces is an imbecile and a coward in my book.

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by CryotriX View Post
    Dear lord. That is NOT a ban. You made that shit up. You're trying to save face cause it's clearly you didn't read the article.

    I am done here. It's like talking to the damn walls. Absolutely beyond ridiculous.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You're referring to me? I am not right. I don't give a fuck about big corporations, they should serve gays and trans folk, religion should not be allowed to be a factor.

    Also, I've seen numerous right wingers that would prefer to keep corporate rights instead of regulating. It's more valuable to them.
    That’s actually the definition of a ban. You’re confused by the idea of a temporary ban now?
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Got to earn his turnips.

  12. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    Never said Vox was worse nor do i care about right leaning sites or left leaning sites. I said that Vox is a joke. Did you even read your own link? I noticed you glossed over the description of the strong left bias. Each to their own i guess.

    It is odd that the site you link said that 'A factual search reveals that the Daily Signal has not failed a fact check' but its 'Factual Reporting: MIXED' Sound like they are both propagandists. They frame the facts in a way complement their narrative. Both sound like a poor sources to me.




    Since i am doing neither....
    rofl

    Media Bias Fact Check? You need to learn better sources.

    The Columbia Journalism Review describes Media Bias/Fact Check as an amateur attempt at categorizing media bias and Van Zandt as an "armchair media analyst." Van Zandt describes himself as someone with "more than 20 years as an arm chair researcher on media bias and its role in political influence." The Poynter Institute notes, "Media Bias/Fact Check is a widely cited source for news stories and even studies about misinformation, despite the fact that its method is in no way scientific."

  13. #513
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowClassic View Post
    Data is objective and therefore by definition not a matter of opinion, it's either true data or false data. I expect a site run by volunteers to contain some number of inconsistencies or errors, that is a given, but as a general ballpark estimate of the number of global Islamist attacks I have not seen any evidence to suggest it is wildly fabricated or off the mark. I don't need absolute precision to make my case, anyone who looks at the number of people being killed every month by Islamist extremists and doesn't conclude that this is the greatest ideological threat the world faces is an imbecile and a coward in my book.
    Yes data is objective that’s the whole point, nothing on that site is objective as non of it is backed up by any thing at all. You just as the site are presenting theses things as facts with literally no evidence.

    Rather you believe abunch of unverified reports with nothing to back them up is a opinion it’s not data.

  14. #514
    Quote Originally Posted by unbound View Post
    rofl

    Media Bias Fact Check? You need to learn better sources.
    Tell it to the guy that linked them. I was just responding to him. My only point is that Vox is a joke.

  15. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    Again. I point to the litany of death threats in the world of gaming you guys don't seem to be making threads about.
    This is a very, very silly point you're trying to make. The 'litany of death threats in the world of gaming' aren't getting threads because those death threats don't include usually the fact that A)they're armed and B)they KNOW YOUR ADDRESS. I see the point you're trying to make, but it's just a bad comparison.

  16. #516
    Give me WC3:R, Blizz! The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by perkocet View Post
    This is a very, very silly point you're trying to make. The 'litany of death threats in the world of gaming' aren't getting threads because those death threats don't include usually the fact that A)they're armed and B)they KNOW YOUR ADDRESS. I see the point you're trying to make, but it's just a bad comparison.
    And also that C) They don't care if they die and D) They don't care if your children die.

  17. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Yes data is objective that’s the whole point, nothing on that site is objective as non of it is backed up by any thing at all. You just as the site are presenting theses things as facts with literally no evidence.

    Rather you believe abunch of unverified reports with nothing to back them up is a opinion it’s not data.
    They should link sources but come on, it's pretty easy to verify yourself.

    For example I picked an attack at random:

    2019.05.16 Chad Ceilia 13 0 Thirteen villagers are slaughtered by Islamic militants.

    Google search "Chad Ceilia 13" and their is a whole slew of articles documenting the attack: https://punchng.com/boko-haram-milit...agers-in-chad/

    You can do this for as long as you want, as hard as a reality it is to swallow this is the world we live in.

  18. #518
    Quote Originally Posted by Eosia View Post
    Free Speech does not exist on Private Property. And Google is not an agent of the state.
    Free speech doesn't even exist in Canada, be thankful.
    “If you don't believe me that is too damn bad!”

  19. #519
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowClassic View Post
    They should link sources but come on, it's pretty easy to verify yourself.

    For example I picked an attack at random:

    2019.05.16 Chad Ceilia 13 0 Thirteen villagers are slaughtered by Islamic militants.

    Google search "Chad Ceilia 13" and their is a whole slew of articles documenting the attack: https://punchng.com/boko-haram-milit...agers-in-chad/

    You can do this for as long as you want, as hard as a reality it is to swallow this is the world we live in.
    and I've put in 10+ and have come up with nothing. its almost like the site is meant to bombard you with unverifiable data points that they don't source because they expect you to take them on faith.

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    Never said Vox was worse nor do i care about right leaning sites or left leaning sites. I said that Vox is a joke. Did you even read your own link? I noticed you glossed over the description of the strong left bias. Each to their own i guess.

    It is odd that the site you link said that 'A factual search reveals that the Daily Signal has not failed a fact check' but its 'Factual Reporting: MIXED' Sound like they are both propagandists. They frame the facts in a way complement their narrative. Both sound like a poor sources to me.




    Since i am doing neither....
    You didn't read my fucking post at all? And having bias MEANS NOTHING. As EVERYONE has a bias. FACTUALITY rating is where it is at. Even having a middle of the road bias pisses you Trump supporters off like Reuters, AP, Washington Post, and New York times.

    You know why they got a mixed rating? Because they are climate change denialists.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadite View Post
    Tell it to the guy that linked them. I was just responding to him. My only point is that Vox is a joke.
    The only joke here, is you for not refuting anything they say.
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