View Poll Results: Is the adversity score a good idea for the SAT

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  • Yes

    32 18.29%
  • NO

    143 81.71%
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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    It's a weird juxtaposition of arguing life isn't fair in a thread about a system trying to make things more fair. And I'm honestly curious what happens if low scoring people have to lower their education prospects because they had the audacity to have a stable life so they're can be more openings for people with high adversity.

    It's tricky in my book because of the limited spaces in higher education. And now I'm curious. In your personal opinion, what's harder:

    One parent that does what they can to be involved in their child's education.
    Two parents who don't particularly care what their child does.
    What do you mean by "harder"? As in, what should get priority?

    In my POV, definitely the hardworking parents' child should get priority because it's a better "investment" for society to give money and effort towards a person who has already proven to be capable of returning the effort back to society.

    But then maybe there are more people who could contribute much better to society than they do, but they never had the chance to prove that. So it would be great to give them a chance, IF of course the given society has the means (read: money and time) to provide this. This could be one of the way to do that.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Uzi View Post
    What do you mean by "harder"? As in, what should get priority?

    In my POV, definitely the hardworking parents' child should get priority because it's a better "investment" for society to give money and effort towards a person who has already proven to be capable of returning the effort back to society.

    But then maybe there are more people who could contribute much better to society than they do, but they never had the chance to prove that. So it would be great to give them a chance, IF of course the given society has the means (read: money and time) to provide this. This could be one of the way to do that.
    Yeah. A single parent household can cause issues. But it's not a guaranteed bad life. Just as much, someone with the stability of having both parents may have parents that aren't focused on making sure their kid gets the best education.

    And you make a good point, too. Adversity doesn't completely translate into drive for success like privilege doesn't completely translate into sloth. It's on the individual. There are people from every economic circle that want a quality education.

  3. #143
    The Unstoppable Force Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    But do you really believe this isnt already going on?
    I'm positive this is already going on. I'm positive people steal and commit arson, too. If they get caught, they're in trouble.

    But, there's a valid point that colleges might not be looking all that hard if they know it'll cost them money. This whole shakeup you're seeing in the news might make exactly that happen. Nobody's more vigilant than the guard who's told "if you screw up again, you're fired."

  4. #144
    This is just a drip in the ocean and will contribute nothing to offset privilege.

  5. #145
    The Unstoppable Force Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    THE BRIBERY
    Just so we're clear;
    1) don't break the law, people
    2) that kind of direct bribery to get someone into college is pretty damn infrequent, and
    3) that whole thing was stupid. The rich parents should have just made a large public possibly still tax-beneficial donation and let the board of admi$$ions do what they felt was right. That's a far more commonly accepted, and legal, approach.

    It's a bit off-topic, but, basically whether or not you believe it's the right thing to do often boils down to "would you still do it if someone was watching?" Sliding people money under the table suggests you know it's the wrong thing. Large, public donations are a different, and commonly accepted, story. And I'd be willing to bet it outnumbers the kind of outright criminal bribery you're talking about by multiple orders of magnitude. Especially at lower-end institutions -- you don't bribe people to get into Hodunk State.

    Now, if you're talking about those donations being bribes...I'll agree in principle, it's a much harder sell to fix that, and we'd get into a "this works like insurance" situation.

  6. #146
    Dumbing down of America

  7. #147
    Mom you need to kick me out of the house at 16 so I can get into a good college, oh could you also start using meth??

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor View Post
    Lots of applications with PO Boxes in low income zip codes
    I was thinking the same exact thing.

    Although I suppose if enough people took advantage of the system, it would artificially inflate the scores in low income areas and ruin the effect they are going for.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    It doesn't matter who you lie to, if that lie carries over to the college in question. Getting someone to lie for you on, say, your tax returns doesn't mean you get to keep the illegal money. Lying to the high school, hoping the high school lie carries over, is basically the same thing. College applications and acceptances are legal contracts, the same applies. @cubby will back me up.

    Also, I can't help but ask, the scenario you're describing...wouldn't it be easier to just study? That seems like a lot less work, plus, it's not cheating.
    Exactly. The illegal act is attached to the deed and where it travels, in most cases. Here the illegal act directly affects the college, in fact is de facto requested and required by the college, so you could even make the argument that you're also lying to the college directly.

    And yeah, study and get into college. Simpler.

  10. #150
    So you work hard in High School, take all the hardest classes, get all the best grades, get a perfect score on your SAT, only to find out you still didn't get into your dream college. Sorry, your parents didn't make it hard enough on you.

  11. #151
    The Unstoppable Force Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    So you work hard in High School, take all the hardest classes, get all the best grades, get a perfect score on your SAT, only to find out you still didn't get into your dream college. Sorry, your parents didn't make it hard enough on you.
    That's not what this is about at all. People who get 4.0's and perfect scores on the SAT (honestly of course) could smear feces on the rest of their applications and still get into anywhere they wanted. These people have nothing to worry about because Bubba got +100 points higher than Jimbo.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by breslin View Post
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sat-adv...playing-field/

    This reads like something out of a bad marxist dystopia. Do you support this?
    Yeah, trying to adjust for power and wealth imbalances to give kids who didn't choose their circumstances at birth a fair shot sounds really dystopian. It's a slippery slope when we stop pretending that factors outside of personal agency don't affect outcomes - next we'll have sports and sports betting using handicaps too. Oh fuck wait...

    Also I guarantee that you couldn't give a good description of Marxism if you tried. Maybe stop trying to assign buzzwords to stuff and use your fucking brain a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by RussianGoblin View Post
    Those sjw activists are the biggest racists and bigots actually, thats a proven fact.
    This is my favourite meme. Imagine arguing that people accuse others of racism too often, but then also calling those people racists. Such consistent messaging. 10/10.
    Last edited by Elkfingers; 2019-05-17 at 04:51 PM.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    That's not what this is about at all. People who get 4.0's and perfect scores on the SAT (honestly of course) could smear feces on the rest of their applications and still get into anywhere they wanted. These people have nothing to worry about because Bubba got +100 points higher than Jimbo.
    People with top scores are a dime a dozen when applying to some of the top colleges in the country, so that statement is completely false.

  14. #154
    The Insane Boomzy's Avatar
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    Yeah a poor kid who was homeless, bounced around to different schools, and had to worry about his families money and food is for sure on the same level playing field as a rich kid who grew up in the suburbs.

    How fucking delusional do you have to be... Like for race or gender you could say it's unfair, because those qualities don't inherently make someone oppressed... but poverty? Are you fucking really going to tell me that poor kids don't have it harder than literally EVERYONE else?
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  15. #155
    If you've lived in a disadvantaged area and seen how it affects kids, you wouldn't be complaining about this kind of thing.

  16. #156
    The Insane Boomzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratt View Post
    If you've lived in a disadvantaged area and seen how it affects kids, you wouldn't be complaining about this kind of thing.
    Nobody who is would be complaining. These are all middle class white men or poor white men who got lucky and became wealthy, and now think they are morally superior and are able to pass judgement on the "lazy" poor.
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  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Or we could just get rid of the SAT entirely. Testing only demonstrates who is good at taking tests.
    What do you think happens once they get to college, there are more tests. How do you quickly determine someone who knows 2+2 = 4 and someone who doesnt? A test.

    If you know 2+2 =4 you should be able to demonstrate that easily on a test.
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  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    Nobody who is would be complaining. These are all middle class white men or poor white men who got lucky and became wealthy, and now think they are morally superior and are able to pass judgement on the "lazy" poor.
    Sure, it might seem like this sort of thing is explicitly designed to account for measurable disadvantages that certain kids have in a fairly objective way, and I can see why sensible people would support that because it just obviously makes sense...

    bUT areNt tHeY The reAL RacIsTS?!?!?!?!

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    Yeah a poor kid who was homeless, bounced around to different schools, and had to worry about his families money and food is for sure on the same level playing field as a rich kid who grew up in the suburbs.

    How fucking delusional do you have to be... Like for race or gender you could say it's unfair, because those qualities don't inherently make someone oppressed... but poverty? Are you fucking really going to tell me that poor kids don't have it harder than literally EVERYONE else?
    You misunderstand.

    They don't dispute that poor kids have it harder. Their contention is that poor kids are being helped; remember, in the view of such people being poor is a moral failing on par with rape or murder.

  20. #160
    I voted yes if it just consider background and not race. I ctrl-f the artcile for key words and didn't see them. Poverty, lack of two parents, malnutrition, and other things effect performance.
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