Poll: Is the adversity score a good idea for the SAT

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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Something which is already illegal. Should we stop having schools require proof of residence, then?

    And again; it's irrelevant. Every system is gameable, and if that were the principle concern we wouldn't do anything for risk of people abusing it.
    I agree, but if it is easily gameable, then admissions will ignore it. So what good did it do? In the end it just becomes a waste of everyones time.

    Hell, just encourage schools to accept a more diverse SAT scores. If diversity of students is part of the goal of admissions, wouldnt economic and scholastic achievement also be part of that?
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  2. #122
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petej0 View Post
    I agree, but if it is easily gameable, then admissions will ignore it. So what good did it do? In the end it just becomes a waste of everyones time.
    "If"

    The assumption here is that it will be. Because of course it is. Because this is America.

    Hell, just encourage schools to accept a more diverse SAT scores. If diversity of students is part of the goal of admissions, wouldnt economic and scholastic achievement also be part of that?
    Or we could just get rid of the SAT entirely. Testing only demonstrates who is good at taking tests.
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  3. #123
    Mechagnome Reaper0329's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Where do I check all the adversity boxes?

    I had to walk to school 15 miles barefoot, over lava, uphill both ways, in the snow, with my 6 siblings on my back while we passed around one jacket.
    Wow. Okay. Um...I'm going to need you to check your jacket privilege. :/

    Joke aside and on topic, I was discussing this last night. I get the point, to an extent. But I don't know that the SAT itself is the place to put it. Maybe that information has some merit, but I'm hesitant to slap it onto a performance exam. I think the SAT should be a matter of objective merit (insofar as the SAT can measure it, at least).

    But, per my understanding, I don't know that it really matters. They're not adding it onto the raw score, as far as I'm aware? It's just sort of a "so ya know" sort of thing, to which the college can use or not? It seems that colleges that would be inclined to pay attention to that sort of metric would've done so anyway, and colleges that wouldn't will continue not to.

    Either way, I frankly think it's a rather stupid addition, and I don't think it has a place on the SAT.
    Last edited by Reaper0329; 2019-05-17 at 03:36 PM.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Something which is already illegal. Should we stop having schools require proof of residence, then?

    And again; it's irrelevant. Every system is gameable, and if that were the principle concern we wouldn't do anything for risk of people abusing it.
    Of course not. Just saying its extremely abusable and easy to do so. And as far as illegal, its abt as illegal as jaywalking.

    I understand every system is gamable, I'm saying this one is very gamable on top of IN MY OPINION not worth it from a pros cons perspective. Your opinion is different and that's fine.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirza View Post
    Wouldn't it be better to increase funding for education so that low income areas don't have shitty schools?
    Take a look at historical trendlines for education funding vs performance. Education is extremely well funded and performance continues to slide. This is a not a problem you can solve by just throwing money at it.

    On topic, this is a poor idea that compromises the SAT as a measure of merit. It was already pretty questionable, but that's another discussion. College entrance programs already compensate for "adversity" with reduced minimums and quotas.
    Last edited by Felshatner; 2019-05-17 at 03:44 PM.

  6. #126
    "The College Board is a New York-based non-profit that is in charge of overseeing the SAT. A dialogue about wealth and privilege in educational institutions exploded this year in wake of the college admissions scandal"

    OR, you know, we could target the source of the problem, THE BRIBERY and make sure it doesn't happen again. This just seems to encourage colleges to seek out other avenues for decisions than the SAT (like bribes!)

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Uzi View Post
    What do you mean by "harder"? As in, what should get priority?

    In my POV, definitely the hardworking parents' child should get priority because it's a better "investment" for society to give money and effort towards a person who has already proven to be capable of returning the effort back to society.

    But then maybe there are more people who could contribute much better to society than they do, but they never had the chance to prove that. So it would be great to give them a chance, IF of course the given society has the means (read: money and time) to provide this. This could be one of the way to do that.
    Yeah. A single parent household can cause issues. But it's not a guaranteed bad life. Just as much, someone with the stability of having both parents may have parents that aren't focused on making sure their kid gets the best education.

    And you make a good point, too. Adversity doesn't completely translate into drive for success like privilege doesn't completely translate into sloth. It's on the individual. There are people from every economic circle that want a quality education.

  8. #128
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    But do you really believe this isnt already going on?
    I'm positive this is already going on. I'm positive people steal and commit arson, too. If they get caught, they're in trouble.

    But, there's a valid point that colleges might not be looking all that hard if they know it'll cost them money. This whole shakeup you're seeing in the news might make exactly that happen. Nobody's more vigilant than the guard who's told "if you screw up again, you're fired."

  9. #129
    This is just a drip in the ocean and will contribute nothing to offset privilege.

  10. #130
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    THE BRIBERY
    Just so we're clear;
    1) don't break the law, people
    2) that kind of direct bribery to get someone into college is pretty damn infrequent, and
    3) that whole thing was stupid. The rich parents should have just made a large public possibly still tax-beneficial donation and let the board of admi$$ions do what they felt was right. That's a far more commonly accepted, and legal, approach.

    It's a bit off-topic, but, basically whether or not you believe it's the right thing to do often boils down to "would you still do it if someone was watching?" Sliding people money under the table suggests you know it's the wrong thing. Large, public donations are a different, and commonly accepted, story. And I'd be willing to bet it outnumbers the kind of outright criminal bribery you're talking about by multiple orders of magnitude. Especially at lower-end institutions -- you don't bribe people to get into Hodunk State.

    Now, if you're talking about those donations being bribes...I'll agree in principle, it's a much harder sell to fix that, and we'd get into a "this works like insurance" situation.

  11. #131
    Herald of the Titans enigma77's Avatar
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    Dumbing down of America

  12. #132
    Mom you need to kick me out of the house at 16 so I can get into a good college, oh could you also start using meth??

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor View Post
    Lots of applications with PO Boxes in low income zip codes
    I was thinking the same exact thing.

    Although I suppose if enough people took advantage of the system, it would artificially inflate the scores in low income areas and ruin the effect they are going for.

  14. #134
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    It doesn't matter who you lie to, if that lie carries over to the college in question. Getting someone to lie for you on, say, your tax returns doesn't mean you get to keep the illegal money. Lying to the high school, hoping the high school lie carries over, is basically the same thing. College applications and acceptances are legal contracts, the same applies. @cubby will back me up.

    Also, I can't help but ask, the scenario you're describing...wouldn't it be easier to just study? That seems like a lot less work, plus, it's not cheating.
    Exactly. The illegal act is attached to the deed and where it travels, in most cases. Here the illegal act directly affects the college, in fact is de facto requested and required by the college, so you could even make the argument that you're also lying to the college directly.

    And yeah, study and get into college. Simpler.

  15. #135
    So you work hard in High School, take all the hardest classes, get all the best grades, get a perfect score on your SAT, only to find out you still didn't get into your dream college. Sorry, your parents didn't make it hard enough on you.

  16. #136
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    So you work hard in High School, take all the hardest classes, get all the best grades, get a perfect score on your SAT, only to find out you still didn't get into your dream college. Sorry, your parents didn't make it hard enough on you.
    That's not what this is about at all. People who get 4.0's and perfect scores on the SAT (honestly of course) could smear feces on the rest of their applications and still get into anywhere they wanted. These people have nothing to worry about because Bubba got +100 points higher than Jimbo.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by breslin View Post
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sat-adv...playing-field/

    This reads like something out of a bad marxist dystopia. Do you support this?
    Yeah, trying to adjust for power and wealth imbalances to give kids who didn't choose their circumstances at birth a fair shot sounds really dystopian. It's a slippery slope when we stop pretending that factors outside of personal agency don't affect outcomes - next we'll have sports and sports betting using handicaps too. Oh fuck wait...

    Also I guarantee that you couldn't give a good description of Marxism if you tried. Maybe stop trying to assign buzzwords to stuff and use your fucking brain a bit.

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    Those sjw activists are the biggest racists and bigots actually, thats a proven fact.
    This is my favourite meme. Imagine arguing that people accuse others of racism too often, but then also calling those people racists. Such consistent messaging. 10/10.
    Last edited by Elkfingers; 2019-05-17 at 04:51 PM.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    That's not what this is about at all. People who get 4.0's and perfect scores on the SAT (honestly of course) could smear feces on the rest of their applications and still get into anywhere they wanted. These people have nothing to worry about because Bubba got +100 points higher than Jimbo.
    People with top scores are a dime a dozen when applying to some of the top colleges in the country, so that statement is completely false.

  19. #139
    If you've lived in a disadvantaged area and seen how it affects kids, you wouldn't be complaining about this kind of thing.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Or we could just get rid of the SAT entirely. Testing only demonstrates who is good at taking tests.
    What do you think happens once they get to college, there are more tests. How do you quickly determine someone who knows 2+2 = 4 and someone who doesnt? A test.

    If you know 2+2 =4 you should be able to demonstrate that easily on a test.
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