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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarba View Post
    Lol. Wow is clearly not made for you then. You are looking at a click and collect game.
    Majority of players view WoW as a collect game. Toys, Mounts, Pets, Transmog, Achievements.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarba
    Not a mmo with a world, content or other players.
    World and content with flying and collecting... other players are only needed in instanced content (without flying of course).
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarba
    And what you try so hard to accomplish (aka leveling mining in bfa) is done during a normal leveling plus 5 hours.
    Didn't say it was hard to accomplish... said it was time consuming and flying would aid in that.
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Right...so you just ignored everything I just said. This is why we can't have nice things.
    Starting to feel like he's just trolling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No fucking way. The worst idea since democracy.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by duselsteiner View Post
    Immersion was never the real reason to remove flying. The real reason was that blizzard needed a massively valuable intrinsic reward to make people play their game.

    And flying was that. And is that nowadays.

    And the devs will never undo that decision. As they make a lot of money with it.
    Do you really think getting people to grind out Pathfinder (which you can typically get just doing the world content) makes enough to make up for the people who quit/delay purchase over the matter and the fact mounts on the store became less attractive? Also, how does the fact they planned to leave flying out altogether play into this idea?

  3. #83
    High Overlord Cena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kataroku View Post
    If you can recall, flying was disabled in WoD because it would break phasing as well as some quest and cinematic triggers. Remember the PTR servers where flight was enabled and how painfully obvious it was that WoD wasn't designed with flight in mind at all?

    Player feedback - regarding how great MoP's Timeless Isle content was - simply gave Blizzard a convenient excuse to keep everyone grounded in order to cut corners and push the already-delayed expansion out sooner.

    To add to this, Tanaan Jungle was so vastly incomplete at launch, that they placed an impenetrable dome over it and people still found ways of getting inside.

    Given how time-poor the development team were at getting content out the door - as Legion's development was already underway - Blizzard had initially decided to disable flight for the entire expansion rather than test and fix everything that flying broke.

    I'm tired of reading that pathfinder was introduced to reinvigorate world PvP and exploration, because it wasn't. That's the corporate spiel trying to cover up the fact that disabling flight substantially reduces the amount of testing that needs to be done prior to launch.

    Any praise of the pathfinder achievement only emboldens Blizzard's decision to cut corners, which could partially explain why the game is where it's at today.

    EDIT: This isn't a thread about pro / anti flight. Too many people repeat the rhetoric that Blizzard did this for the player's benefit, which isn't true, and I'm setting the record straight.
    I have no way of agreeing or disagreeing until you can give me an inside source of a Blizzard employee within the wow team backing up your observations. Then what you say does make sense. However you have to understand the way zone development works is that they are very dependent on the story development department. The zones are made and worked based on the story they tell and if the story department keeps iterating on how they tell their story then the developer has to continuously iterate the zones. If you play the PTR during alpha/beta you will realize that. During Mist of Pandaria initial PTR testing the story was different where you were fighting the Mogu in the jade forest, but at launch they didn't include the Mogu at all and the story was changed to where you are fighting the Sha. Same thing with Gorgrond in WoD where they had an entire rail road connecting to Shattarath city. But that never made it to live due to so many changes and iterations to the zone story. Many of the initial WoD story of how zones were supposed to be got scrapped, because of constant iterations and the development team eventually ran out of time and the expansion felt incomplete at live to many players as it should have.

    So basically what I am saying is a major reason why an expansion would suck or be incomplete is due to the story development team that keeps changing their story of the game. Developing the zones doesn't take long, but constantly iterating it does because this game is heavily story driven.

  4. #84
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    No one complained about flight in TBC.
    No one complained about flight in WotLK.
    No one complained about flight in Cataclysm.
    No one complained about flight in MoP.
    In WoD, suddenly, flight was a problem..

    Flight was never the problem: WoD was..
    The devs complained about flight and wanted it gone it wasn’t about what the players wanted.

  5. #85
    I never understood why they time gate pathfinder. They use the excuse for pathfinder that they want people to explore and experience the world and flying from A to B ruins that. Right, ok fair point but that's the point of pathfinder. Once you've unlocked it, you've explored everywhere, you've done all the main quests, you've probably done a bunch of world quests to meet the rep requirements. So why is there now a long wait for part two?

    Let people earn pathfinder at their own pace, they still have to do all the content required to unlock the achievement but once they have, flying should be unlocked immediately. I personally have only just returned to the game after a long break because honestly, traversing the world to do world quests I've already done a bunch of times is tedious as hell. Not saying flying is the fix for that tediousness but it would go a long way in relieving it if I didn't have to faff around running through areas and mobs I've seen a thousand times already.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Right...so you just ignored everything I just said. This is why we can't have nice things.
    Nope. I read. Flying kill content. Kill the world. Kill any sense of immersion. And you want that just to mine in an easier way so you could be max level in mining without having to interact with or progress in the world.

    Your next complaint might be that some mobs are to close from nodes wich destroy your self weird sense of accomplishment.

    World content is not boring at first while he is relevant. And he is relevant for longer than "I just dang x level". It would have been ok with the opening of the last raid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    Majority of players view WoW as a collect game. Toys, Mounts, Pets, Transmog, Achievements.

    World and content with flying and collecting... other players are only needed in instanced content (without flying of course).

    Didn't say it was hard to accomplish... said it was time consuming and flying would aid in that.

    Starting to feel like he's just trolling.
    And when did that majority of player expressed the desire to get toys, mounts, pets, transmog and achivement without having to do anything? That's what you want. You want to go from point A to point B without any form of obstacle, to click on something and get your reward.

    Your signature is a joke right?

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarba View Post
    ...And when did that majority of player expressed the desire to get toys, mounts, pets, transmog and achivement without having to do anything? That's what you want. You want to go from point A to point B without any form of obstacle, to click on something and get your reward.

    Your signature is a joke right?
    I'm now convinced you are trolling because you can not be this obtuse. You said I wanted a collection game and WoW was not that... I provided examples that WoW was indeed a collection game. Then you are telling me what I want... which is nothing at all like what I have said. You then go on to say that Flying kills content. Random mobs that drop nothing of value is not content... it is a time sink. In a world with magic and mole machines and teleportation you really believe that flying is what kills immersion? Please stop trolling.

    EDIT: My signature exist because not everyone's opinion is equally valid. True democracy helps no one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No fucking way. The worst idea since democracy.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Yes and no..

    We had flight form, yes..
    But at the same time, when we learned flight form at level 68, we got the 3rd riding skill (that unlocks flying at 60%) for free at level 68..
    Sadly all flying mounts required level 70, so while we had the skill, we were forced to use bird form until level 70.
    Gotcha. I thought they just had flight form at 68 and had to purchase filght as well at 70.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelcryo View Post
    I never understood why they time gate pathfinder. They use the excuse for pathfinder that they want people to explore and experience the world and flying from A to B ruins that. Right, ok fair point but that's the point of pathfinder. Once you've unlocked it, you've explored everywhere, you've done all the main quests, you've probably done a bunch of world quests to meet the rep requirements. So why is there now a long wait for part two?

    Let people earn pathfinder at their own pace, they still have to do all the content required to unlock the achievement but once they have, flying should be unlocked immediately. I personally have only just returned to the game after a long break because honestly, traversing the world to do world quests I've already done a bunch of times is tedious as hell. Not saying flying is the fix for that tediousness but it would go a long way in relieving it if I didn't have to faff around running through areas and mobs I've seen a thousand times already.
    In previous expansions it was because they had extra content to add on the same landmass (Tanaan, Broken Shore.) This might not apply for this expansion but there is still the thing that it is the current content and they're not ready to put it in easy-mode yet.

  10. #90
    It can accomplish both. I don't see why it having the added benefit of reducing on-launch bugginess is supposed to be a bad thing.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalium View Post
    I'm now convinced you are trolling because you can not be this obtuse. You said I wanted a collection game and WoW was not that... I provided examples that WoW was indeed a collection game. Then you are telling me what I want... which is nothing at all like what I have said. You then go on to say that Flying kills content. Random mobs that drop nothing of value is not content... it is a time sink. In a world with magic and mole machines and teleportation you really believe that flying is what kills immersion? Please stop trolling.

    EDIT: My signature exist because not everyone's opinion is equally valid. True democracy helps no one.
    Not your signature. The other guy's. And I always talked about a click and collect game.
    And the "random mobs that drop nothing part". My god. That's painfull. You can say that about basically anything on any game that is not the main objective. That's completely ridiculous. "Durdur there is to many enemies between me and the end of that level, it's just to slow me down durdur."
    Last edited by Tarba; 2019-05-17 at 06:14 PM.

  12. #92
    The Insane General Zanjin's Avatar
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    Blizzard never wanted flying in WoD and when they finally admitted it after months of saying maybe.(they also said no more flying for any future expansions) there was massive backlash and sub loss to the point that the unsub page crashed. Also GM had to police the un-sub page.

    pathfinder came from that. "do everything on the ground and then you get flying."
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  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Intropid View Post
    I disagree with you, but regardless, you didn't propose a solution. Do you think flying should be enabled from an expansions start? Do you think it should just cost gold? Do you think flying should be completely disabled? There isn't any point in criticizing or complaining in a feature without offering potential solutions.
    I may be a little late to the party, but there's nothing at all wrong with criticizing or complaining without offering potential solutions. It isn't the consumer's role to come up with solutions, it's their role to identify what they do and don't like.

    Demanding that any criticism come with prepackaged solutions is just a way of needlessly gating off a meaningful discussion, or shouting down opinions you don't agree with.

  14. #94
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    -snip-
    https://gamerant.com/world-of-warcra...lords-draenor/


    Announced WoD. No plan to add flying, but they might reevaluate later. Still no plan to add flying, maybe even to next expansion, then people mad and they add.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by General Zanjin View Post
    Blizzard never wanted flying in WoD and when they finally admitted it after months of saying maybe.(they also said no more flying for any future expansions) there was massive backlash and sub loss to the point that the unsub page crashed. Also GM had to police the un-sub page.

    pathfinder came from that. "do everything on the ground and then you get flying."
    Do you have any source for " the unsub page crashed and blizz had to police the unsub page"

    Cause this is the first time ever I have heard this, and this is the most outlandish claim ever as people just unsubbing would not cause something to crash.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Kataroku View Post
    If you can recall, flying was disabled in WoD because it would break phasing as well as some quest and cinematic triggers.
    Nope. They weren't going to allow flight because the developers believe the game is better without it. And they still do, we forced them to allow it by putting guns to their heads.

    Don't remember the unsub website crashing. I do recall they added a questionnaire though, and one of the options for why you were quitting was flight. I quit over no flying ever myself.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2019-05-17 at 08:59 PM.

  16. #96
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Druids is one of the most played classes, I say your statement is BS.
    No one cares about druids though.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
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  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    No one complained about flight in TBC.
    No one complained about flight in WotLK.
    No one complained about flight in Cataclysm.
    No one complained about flight in MoP.
    In WoD, suddenly, flight was a problem..

    Flight was never the problem: WoD was..
    You misremember. There were people complaining about how it would be bad back prior to TBC when it was announced.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelcryo View Post
    I never understood why they time gate pathfinder. They use the excuse for pathfinder that they want people to explore and experience the world and flying from A to B ruins that. Right, ok fair point but that's the point of pathfinder. Once you've unlocked it, you've explored everywhere, you've done all the main quests, you've probably done a bunch of world quests to meet the rep requirements. So why is there now a long wait for part two?

    Let people earn pathfinder at their own pace, they still have to do all the content required to unlock the achievement but once they have, flying should be unlocked immediately. I personally have only just returned to the game after a long break because honestly, traversing the world to do world quests I've already done a bunch of times is tedious as hell. Not saying flying is the fix for that tediousness but it would go a long way in relieving it if I didn't have to faff around running through areas and mobs I've seen a thousand times already.
    I agree with this. Make everyone do it on the ground, even get the rep too, then you unlock it. If they add a new area they can restrict flying in that area if they want until requirements are met.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    https://gamerant.com/world-of-warcra...lords-draenor/





    Do you have any source for " the unsub page crashed and blizz had to police the unsub page"

    Cause this is the first time ever I have heard this, and this is the most outlandish claim ever as people just unsubbing would not cause something to crash.
    Just some Blizzard hate boner head canon. WoD went up to 10M subs. If players were unsubbing like mad, it never would have had 10M at launch.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    No one complained about flight in TBC.
    No one complained about flight in WotLK.
    No one complained about flight in Cataclysm.
    No one complained about flight in MoP.
    In WoD, suddenly, flight was a problem..

    Flight was never the problem: WoD was..
    Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but this isn't true. In every expansion people have complained about flying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zalamander View Post
    They intended to scrap flying entirely with WoD moving forward by completely breaking their own words that it would be added later.
    However a huge backlash occurring when this was obvious made them do a 180 and introduce it along with pathfinder after all.

    Yes flying should be added back the same way it always was in all expansions until WoD for gold at max level for the expansion.
    Sure one thing doesn't have to exclude the other, pathfinder can remain as well for those that don't have gold and/or actually like the lore.
    But forcing a crappy linear story onto those who don't care at all about the lore but loves flying is just utterly crap game design.
    They changed flying in WoD, but they also completely broke the in-game economy the same expansion by adopting F2P-style business practices. Not having flying off the bat gives people the chance to have to play around each other, but I agree for a different reason. I was so slow about doing pathfinder that I never ended up getting flying.

  19. #99
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pungent Reek View Post
    They changed flying in WoD, but they also completely broke the in-game economy the same expansion by adopting F2P-style business practices. Not having flying off the bat gives people the chance to have to play around each other, but I agree for a different reason. I was so slow about doing pathfinder that I never ended up getting flying.
    no they broke the economy with the garrison, the wow token had nothing to do with that.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by General Zanjin View Post
    Blizzard never wanted flying in WoD and when they finally admitted it after months of saying maybe.(they also said no more flying for any future expansions) there was massive backlash and sub loss to the point that the unsub page crashed. Also GM had to police the un-sub page.

    pathfinder came from that. "do everything on the ground and then you get flying."
    See, and what's funny about this is that people wanted it like that - so many people complained about flying that Blizz tried to comply, even though technically there was a divide of people that did and did not want it. But then everyone started complaining about not having flying, even the people that didn't want it, so Blizz relented again.

    I've seen people sometimes mention how Blizz is detached from the fans and what they want. Well, sometimes the fans don't know what they want.

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