Beta Feedback so far.

[anon5123]

The thing is, the idea that the ps metrics "are close" is an assumption. They could well be way off.

And you ASSUMING that they are "way off" is also an assumption.

I really don't know where the fuck people are getting this idea of "lol pservers are just guessing! they're totally inaccurate and just complete total guesses!", NO, that's fucking wrong. Pservers base their data on old forum posts from 2004/2005/2006 from people who actually did testing back then. As well as old youtube videos and such. Yeah, there's some inaccuracies here and there, but they are pretty small for the most part.

Not saying we should trust pserver stuff, I'm just sick of people decrying it as "way off guesses" and other bullshit.

[Fascinate]

And you ASSUMING that they are "way off" is also an assumption.

I really don't know where the fuck people are getting this idea of "lol pservers are just guessing! they're totally inaccurate and just complete total guesses!", NO, that's fucking wrong. Pservers base their data on old forum posts from 2004/2005/2006 from people who actually did testing back then. As well as old youtube videos and such. Yeah, there's some inaccuracies here and there, but they are pretty small for the most part.

Not saying we should trust pserver stuff, I'm just sick of people decrying it as "way off guesses" and other bullshit.

Because some people actually played original vanilla and its clear to them much of the stuff on there is wonky. The tricky part with this beta is figuring out what kind of bugs are happening with the port in of 1.12 to 8.x.x client, but for most of the data stuff classic is of course going to be the lean on.

This isnt to say everything is more like vanilla on classic, stuff like walljump/moonwalking are on PS'ers from what i understand and classic sadly wont have those.

[alturic]

It's amusing watching people who not only can remember exactly how things worked 15 years ago, but (those that did/do) also wouldn't be influenced by playing on emu servers, complain that something isn't working correctly.

In the levels I played, it was a flood of memories, all exactly how I remembered. Don't get me wrong, I don't care if regen is .5/s faster than it *REALLY* was either though.

[Bigbazz]

You're full of shit. There was a tremendous amount of guesswork done to set up pirate servers. Not only that but by the time they were doing it the real WoW wasn't Vanilla anymore so they couldn't even do side by side comps. You can read the interviews with the people involved and they said what I'm saying, not what you're saying.

And not only are you full of shit, your ability with logic is null. "You don't need the server side code to know if something is properly replicated, you only need to cross reference numbers and formulas." That does not make any sense at all. If you don't have server side code it is impossible to cross reference numbers and formulas ... because you don't have them.

I think maybe the problem is that you just don't understand how many things there are that the client doesn't know about and relies on the server side info as the source of truth, because they didn't make WoW to be client controlled like D2. But whatever, feel free to keep thinking the pirates without source code got it right and Blizzard is wrong. I don't give two fucks.

Stop moving the goalposts and changing the topic to suit you, fucking address what I said and not go on a random sideshow tangent. I'm well aware of many aspects and am very experienced in the topic but if I'm discussing HPS, armor and hit tables then you ignore it entirely to focus on something else then it's not a discussion, you're just rubbing your cock trying to win an internet argument by deflecting and avoiding discussing the points raised so you can then reply with the implication that I don't know what I'm talking about because "insert topic change and moved goalpost".

That's without getting into the fact that you don't understand that you cross reference by comparing output and behaviour with known formulas, if you get predictable results you have a match, if it's correct it's correct.

You need to first learn about theorycrafting and then you need to get a grip of yourself and try to have a discussion instead of trying to avoid looking wrong by avoiding the very points I was discussing when you quoted me originally.

No it's core bugs and the entire framework that they constantly struggle with. Nostalrius (and it's successor) constantly had issues with threading, spells (usually associated with bad scripting, however that's a core component), movement, events, wrong values etc.

Scripting is pretty straight forward. Basically after you've done your research it's just a step by step implementation and when there are bugs they are usually small mistakes, like when the Nightmare Dragons wouldn't spawn, because an integer value that checks how many of them are alive could go below 0 (if the value is at 0 then the spawntimer will start) and basically a simple check was missing.

Scripting is like 90% research, 10% implementation

Scripting is what they always get wrong though, not basic things like spirit regen, armor, hit tables etc (as I discussed in my post). Getting bosses to behave properly, mobs to spawn in the right places, their pathing, getting their abilities to work correctly (range, basic function, resistances, immunities) and affect players in the right ways... This is what they always get wrong to some degree, the elements I'm discussing (and by and large the elements being discussed in context of Classic) are well documented numbers and formulas that private servers (at least the good ones) have no issue with.

Other things they struggle with is item procs and interactive behaviour with procs in general, the proc mechanics are often incorrect and proc rates are also often incorrect with many strange interactive behaviour sometimes occuring with some specs/classes, TBC realms are a good example of this because until somewhat recently they were nowhere near as well polished as Vanilla private servers.


I'll give you a few example with TBC.

Loetheras - Boss being tauntable, dot not stacking properly/at all, dot damage reduction/mitigation behaviour.
Vashj - Striders spawning in incorrect places, boss movement bugged causing her to stay planted instead of following the tank, spawn rate of bats.
Kazrogal - Warstomp range/damage, mana explosion mechanic functionality.
Archimonde - Behaviour of fires
Morogrim - frequency of tombs.
Lurker - Damage of adds, evade bug, mobs floating when feared bug.
Hydross - phase change position bugs, example allowing you to ignore all phase changes and kite boss in a big circle, or bugging out and spawning dozens of sets of opposite phase mobs within 1 second. Also crushing blow and resistance functionality being incorrect for the boss.
The Curator - adds behaviour/spawn rate
Illihoof - add spawn rate.
Nightbane - Movement pathing, skeletons spawning in P1 bug, incorrect timing of fear, cleave/tail swipe range. Incorrect agro resets.
Magtheridon - Quake behaviour, cleave range, cube functionality
Kael'thas - This is a shit show, but legendary weapon functionality is a big one (many private servers go for the bare minimum while having the boss still killable).

Hunters - Auto/Steady shot clipping, some legit rotation options (weapon speed depending) won't work if it's incorrect, and it usually is.
Shamans - Windfury totem hit table
Warriors - Heroic strike offhand hit penalty bug (which was present on retail, not always on private servers), enrage stacking inaccuracies, incorrect whirlwind interaction with sweeping strikes, piercing howl functionality in PVP, devastate/sunder armor hit table independance (where when using devastate you can hit the target successfully and fail to apply sunder).

It's always scripting and npc behaviour stuff that suffers or more complex class aspects, item procs etc, not the super basic foundation elements of the game.

[Bluespiderman57]

They work with old gear skins. We can still wear Vanilla gear on live. Just some of them don't work well.

Honestly they already passed on authentic graphics by giving us the option for Live lighting, water, ground clutter. Don't see the issue of having a toggle for HD models, besides maybe extra time investment in setting up what models to swap.

That's fair. I really wouldn't mind at all if they added a toggle for the new models. Hell, that would probably be enough to get my wife to play again. I don't mind the models, but the main reason she doesn't want to play is because she says the old models are ugly as sin.

[potis]

This is the best part. All those Classic bashers playing the holier-than-thou card towards people playing in pservers now are paying for our enjoyment and there is nothing they can do to help it

Unless they unsubbed the very moment that Classic was announced, that is, but it looks extremely unlikely to me. Keep crying, I'm loving it.

Stuff like this, is why people playing Retail that has played Vanilla to its fullest mock people that want to play Classic.

You post such random stupid stuff just to feel superior about something that dear god....Do you realize how the world even works?

Just the advertisement the announcement offered, the first day afterwards, made more money to Blizzard than Classic 7.3 engine remaking/devs and the servers needed were paid that day, probably for the whole life expectancy of the servers.

The whole Classic shit is a redemption tactic for Blizzard for the eyes of the dumb masses, along with a very easy way to make money, they will spend practically nothing and make million out of it, only from the marketing side, not even gonna count resubbing and anything extra.

For the love of god, we get it, you couldnt play back then for various reasons, or if you could you never did anything worthwhile but just drop it.

Repeating stupid shit (Not you, generally this forum) is the reason this counter-productive arguments are happening.

Reality is, 1.12 is a perfect Vanilla, Vanilla was not like that, the game was vastly different till patch 1.8, aka Weapon scaling attack speed changes, then it was vastly different again after 1.11 and so on.

Enjoy the WoW 2005 RPG version, the same way people enjoy Baldur's Gate still, and all the old DnD games, but stop acting like Blizzard gives a single fuck about the community.

[Gerron]

From what I've done so far in the beta it's felt about right for what it is. I think the biggest change I've noticed is just how stable the servers are. We'll see how my first Deadmines goes though.

[Veggie50]

And you ASSUMING that they are "way off" is also an assumption.

I really don't know where the fuck people are getting this idea of "lol pservers are just guessing! they're totally inaccurate and just complete total guesses!", NO, that's fucking wrong. Pservers base their data on old forum posts from 2004/2005/2006 from people who actually did testing back then. As well as old youtube videos and such. Yeah, there's some inaccuracies here and there, but they are pretty small for the most part.

Not saying we should trust pserver stuff, I'm just sick of people decrying it as "way off guesses" and other bullshit.

You’re assuming I’m assuming that... ugh this gets confusing...

I don’t assume either way, because I disqualify it as a metric. I just know that I don’t know what is accurate and what isnt. Like it of not, a LOT of stuff on private servers is guesswork. One of the Nost developers told all about that in an interview not long ago.

[anon5123]

a LOT of stuff on private servers is guesswork. One of the Nost developers told all about that in an interview not long ago.

You do realize there are other private servers, yes?

They don't "guess". They take values from things like old 2005 vanilla videos, official strategy guides, old elitistjerks forum posts, etc. To claim that "A LOT OF IT IS JUST GUESSING LOL LOL" is blatantly false. It's ridiculous that you're still saying this even when we have Classic beta and can see that, surprise surprise, it's not very different from pservers.

Stop spreading anti-pserver misinformation.

[buurton]

The game seems to be much different in terms of difficulty if you compare to private servers.