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  1. #301
    Titan Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    As for the new Batman, some better shots of the whole costume are out on Twitter today. Costume looks ok, the cowl looks awful though and has bug eyes that make it look more like the Tick cartoon.
    Yeah, I think the IDEA of the scene was strong, but the execution was just a bit flawed.

    And yeah, the Batsuit looks great but that cowl is... just wrong. Seeing as this is a stunman, not RPats, I'm hoping that the cowl has reinforcments (in case of a stunt accident), and the "real" suit will look a bit less insane.
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  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    By definition a superhero has superhuman abilities. Batman's intelligence isn't superhuman. Words have meaning.
    When you see superman lift a bus you go "woop that's superhuman strength" but when you see batman exhibit PhD level knowledge in every single field while keeping above olympic levels athleticism while keeping the charade of a playboy billionaire with a social life you just go "Hey that's perfectly within human limits"?

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    Did you just use a random list from IMDb to back up your claims?

    A list which has Bendydick Pumpkin patch as the 4th best? and Chris Pratt as 5th?

    omg, the more I read this list, the better it gets... Seth Rogan at 11 and Channing Tatum at 12. I'm actually crying with laughter right now.

    OMFG it has Kevin Hart at 31. Kill me now.

    And CILLAN MURPHY is 39.

    This dude think Seth Rogan, Channing Tatum and KEVIN HART are better actors tha Cillian Murphy.

    Thank you, friend. I needed a good laugh.
    Agree the list is pretty funny, thats why i said i dont 100% agree with it.
    I linked it, because it give you something, even if its not well liked.
    The point still stands that dude is not even close to any list of top or best actors of his generation.

    Also, glad i could brighten your day.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protean View Post
    When you see superman lift a bus you go "woop that's superhuman strength" but when you see batman exhibit PhD level knowledge in every single field while keeping above olympic levels athleticism while keeping the charade of a playboy billionaire with a social life you just go "Hey that's perfectly within human limits"?
    Yes? None of those are things humans are incapable of doing i.e. within human limits. No human ever can lift a bus. Being talented in multiple fields isn't superhuman and it is always shown how much he worked for all those things.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    I'm sorry, but if you HAVE to imagine all that, for the scene to work... Then the scene doesn't work.

    I'm fine with some subtext, but this is more like a sub NOVEL.

    I don't hate BvS as much as many seem to, but that scene just made me laugh, and I can't understand how anyone can take it seriously.
    Same here. I don't think the movie is absurdly terrible, but that scene is where it jumps the shark for me. I get the point of it, but the execution completely dropped the ball. Winter Soldier or Civil War's premises aren't much less ridiculous, but the presentation is far better so they sell the idea.

    Doesn't help that the film that was supposed to be about Batman vs Superman ended with them teaming up against a generic dumb monster.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTerpsichore View Post
    The point still stands that dude is not even close to any list of top or best actors of his generation.
    Yes he is... He's one of the most well regarded actors of his generation. I mean, do you think it's chance that people like Nolan, Reeves and The Safdie Brothers cast him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Doesn't help that the film that was supposed to be about Batman vs Superman ended with them teaming up against a generic dumb monster.
    "A Generic dumb monster"... You mean Doomsday, one of Supermans most iconic enemies?

    But yeah, BvS and Civil War are fairly similar in their setups. But as you said, the execution for BvS was poor.
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  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    Yes he is... He's one of the most well regarded actors of his generation. I mean, do you think it's chance that people like Nolan, Reeves and The Safdie Brothers cast him?



    "A Generic dumb monster"... You mean Doomsday, one of Supermans most iconic enemies?

    But yeah, BvS and Civil War are fairly similar in their setups. But as you said, the execution for BvS was poor.
    In the film he's a generic dumb monster that says nothing, has no motivations of his own and only exists as an obstacle to be punched in the face. So yes, a generic dumb monster. It kills Supes but the movie doesn't even pretend to claim that it will stick anyway. Meanwhile Civil War stuck to its premise from beginning to end, it didn't have the final battle be Iron Man and Caps against some nameless Soviet supersoldiers pulled out of nowhere, it had the two sides established in the film duking it out. The far better execution allowed me to get over Civil War's flaws, such as the villain's plan being unspeakably convoluted.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    In the film he's a generic dumb monster that says nothing, has no motivations of his own and only exists as an obstacle to be punched in the face.
    I mean... Isn't that Doomsday, though? He's a big old ball of rage whose job seems to be to turn up when Superman needs to take a beating and administer it. Now, that's not to say he wasn't a weak choice, for a villain. But he was a fairly comic accurate portrayal of what he was. A Wrecking Ball. (origin story excepted, obviously)

    The far better execution allowed me to get over Civil War's flaws, such as the villain's plan being unspeakably convoluted.
    Convoluted... But effective. I feel like Zemo doesn't get nearly enough credit. He DESTROYED the Avengers. No one else, before Thanos, had done as much damage to them, as Zemo did. And a point could be made that he softened them up, before Thanos could arrive. Although personally, without Thor and Hulk, I still doubt Infinity War would have changed all that much.
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  9. #309
    Pictures of the full costume apparently (not Pattinson though)

    https://twitter.com/InsideBacklot/st...15157779533824

    Last edited by Ophenia; 2020-02-25 at 02:12 PM.

  10. #310
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    I have a feeling that is an adapted helmet, for Stuntmen. The shape so offputting and clashes with the rest of his gear. There's no way that's how it'll look in the movie...

    I hope...

    the rest of the suit looks great, though.
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  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Bern Notice View Post
    I think you posted the wrong image, that doesn't look like Kevin Conroy at all.

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by PrimiOne View Post
    Did we had this dicussion before? I have a vague idea that we had it or maybe it was someone else.

    The Marvel universe is not a coherent universe as we know it so there's this phenomenon that happens in every character: after decades (literally) of impossible feats made by a "mere" human writters feels the need to make the character consistent with the background and retcon his/her skills.

    Ed ( in the text you quoted) is explicitly saying he retconned Steve for the same reasons exposed before("He's always been a lot stronger and faster than the average well-trained athlete").

    Let's see my arguments:

    1.Both Wikipedia and the Marvel Wikia states that Captain America has "no superhuman powers".
    2.The official Marvel power grid states a strenght rating of 3 "Peak human" (lift up to 800 lbs) and a speed of 2 "Normal". Both ratings are one point bwlow "superhuman" classification.
    3. He is not considered superhuman because if you were to analyse his DNA, you would find nothing out of the ordinary; no mutant genome, nor any trace of extensive mutagenic effects similar to the Fantastic Four or the Hulk. The Super-Soldier Serum altered his body by bringing out the best human genome options possible (and the continued regeneration of the serum over time.)
    4.He is considered NOT Superhuman because he does not have any significant abilities outside of the best a human(any particular well-trained, Olympic-level athlete).
    5. Joe Simon has always stated he aimed at creating a SOLDIER not superman.

    So let's put it this way: Steve is not (canonically) considered a superhuman in the Marvel Universe (E616) but would be considered one in ours.
    What the fick does this mean? It means there's another "humans" that have done those impossible feats in the Marvel universe and therefore the limit of what one human can do varies from our universe and E616 ( one good example is Frank Castle: in so many times I can't count anumore of he got hurt way beyond what a human can survive and he , not just don't die but keep fighting)

    But the main thing here is if we go to the very essence of the character you know that Steve is precisely the line that divides human from superhuman( he is often quoted as that) so if you are telling me that some authors sometimes has choosen to cross the line I would say you are totally right but that's not the essence of the characters: a human figthing gods.

    Let's look at the official handbook and the powers description ( that yeah,that's what I'm saying ...has been retconned):

    This it how marvel works "His reaction times are ten times faster than a normal man's" and "possesd no superhuman powers"....in the same paragraph.Fuck me....wouldn't it be a superpower then? Lol

    So I'm gonna ask you one question: those panels you linked...they got hold in your memory maybe because they shocked you that Steve was depicted as a superhuman?

    For everything else good talk and sorry for the derail ( this is about Pattison and we are here talking about Cpt. America).
    I didn't link those panels because I was surprised that they depicted Steve as being superhuman. I linked them because they are evidence that Steve has consistently been depicted as a superhuman throughout the decades since his introduction. The handbook says one thing...decades of comics say something different.

    Even outside the feats though. The fact that the super soldier serum retards the buildup of lactic acid in his muscles gives him super human endurance. And as you said yourself, 10 times the reaction speed is also clearly superhuman.

    Even just using the marvel handbook entry and ignoring the feats that clearly surpass that...he could easily win gold in every single Olympic event without even taking a break in between events.

    And his mental capabilities are just as impressive as his physical stats. Think of the processing power it must take to grab that shield, throw it against a brick wall, bounce off a hydra agents head, into another hydra agents head, off the wall again, into a third hydra, and then still return to his hand every single time.

    Apologies for the late reply. I'm on vacation right now and been keeping busy.

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    I didn't link those panels because I was surprised that they depicted Steve as being superhuman. I linked them because they are evidence that Steve has consistently been depicted as a superhuman throughout the decades since his introduction. The handbook says one thing...decades of comics say something different.
    I recently had a discussion with a comics neophyte about genius in real life and in comics. She wanted some comics about Shuri since she's the genius engineer and she wanted some materials for girls taking STEM classes. I pointed out that comics genius isn't quite the same thing as real life genius. In real life, a genius might be a polymath who learns skills relatively quickly. In comics a genius is someone making super-powered suits or inter-dimensional portals. And doing that alone with no help in both design and manufacturing.

    Suffice to say Captain America is a peak level human but not superhuman and things are just extra flashy in comics regardless of how "human" that character is. Both can be true at the same time. Things have gotten a little bit murkier over the years since some versions of Captain America are explicitly superhuman the most prominent of which is the Ultimate universe version.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Suffice to say Captain America is a peak level human but not superhuman and things are just extra flashy in comics regardless of how "human" that character is. Both can be true at the same time.
    I think this is a very important point, that a lot of people miss...

    Captain America is peak human. For the Marvel Universe. A universe is which explicitly human characters can survive stuff that would ABSOLUTELY kill you, if you tried to do them in real life.

    Just because he does stuff that seems superhuman TO US, doesn't mean that he is considered super human in the 616, a world where literal gods walk the earth.
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  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    I recently had a discussion with a comics neophyte about genius in real life and in comics. She wanted some comics about Shuri since she's the genius engineer and she wanted some materials for girls taking STEM classes. I pointed out that comics genius isn't quite the same thing as real life genius. In real life, a genius might be a polymath who learns skills relatively quickly. In comics a genius is someone making super-powered suits or inter-dimensional portals. And doing that alone with no help in both design and manufacturing.

    Suffice to say Captain America is a peak level human but not superhuman and things are just extra flashy in comics regardless of how "human" that character is. Both can be true at the same time. Things have gotten a little bit murkier over the years since some versions of Captain America are explicitly superhuman the most prominent of which is the Ultimate universe version.
    But, as I said, even if you discount the decades of feats they clearly show Cap as being superhuman, he still has abilities beyond that of even a "peak human"...which is a very ill-defined term.

    It's as Brubaker said....why would countries and companies spend billions of dollars just to replicate a serum that only brings a person to the same level of physical prowess that any human can achieve just by obsessively hitting the gym? Guys like Daredevil, Moon Knight, and Batman are all also "Peak human"...and they didn't need any super soldier serum to get there.

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    But, as I said, even if you discount the decades of feats they clearly show Cap as being superhuman, he still has abilities beyond that of even a "peak human"...which is a very ill-defined term.

    It's as Brubaker said....why would countries and companies spend billions of dollars just to replicate a serum that only brings a person to the same level of physical prowess that any human can achieve just by obsessively hitting the gym? Guys like Daredevil, Moon Knight, and Batman are all also "Peak human"...and they didn't need any super soldier serum to get there.
    Does he? Comics are flashy. I'm grading on a curve here.

    Here's an example to expand upon my comic genius comparison. Tony Stark is a genius (movie version!). He's a really big thinker. First he boot straps a micro(!) fusion(!) reactor(!) that fits in his chest cavity(!) using rocket parts(!) found in an Afghani cave. Then builds(!) an armour(!) to escape the terrorists. Then he makes a fancy(!) version(!) of that armour(!) in his basement lab(!) without help(!). Then later he figures out (!) that his portable reactor is poisoning him so he rebuilds(!) it with an artificial(!) element(!) that is found only on the still theoretical(!) Island of Stability(!) using his home-made(!) particle accelerator(FuckYouCERNRightInTheAss).

    And this is a normal human! Who's much less capable than the fucking Batman who's also a normal person.

    Makes bouncing a shield off of a few goon's heads seem quaint in comparison.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    But, as I said, even if you discount the decades of feats they clearly show Cap as being superhuman, he still has abilities beyond that of even a "peak human"...which is a very ill-defined term.

    It's as Brubaker said....why would countries and companies spend billions of dollars just to replicate a serum that only brings a person to the same level of physical prowess that any human can achieve just by obsessively hitting the gym? Guys like Daredevil, Moon Knight, and Batman are all also "Peak human"...and they didn't need any super soldier serum to get there.
    i dont think you understand what is meant by peak human. you cant reach peak human by hitting the gym. reaching peak human in an actual human being is impossible except perhaps extreme circumstances.

    think of peak human this way.

    a father is trying to save his child in an emergency, the mix of endorphins, chemicals and hormones fueling him enables him to lift a car far easier than any normal human usually would under any other circumstance.

    captain america is that but 100% of the time. every single part of him is at all times operating under the highest ability it could in a process that if it were happening full time in a normal human would probably kill them after awhile if from nothing but physical exhaustion and burn out.

    he may not have magical spells or claws or a metal suit but he is definitely not just a guy who hits the gym.

    this also applies to his ability to process information and reaction times.
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

    FC: 3437-3046-3552

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    i dont think you understand what is meant by peak human. you cant reach peak human by hitting the gym. reaching peak human in an actual human being is impossible except perhaps extreme circumstances.

    think of peak human this way.

    a father is trying to save his child in an emergency, the mix of endorphins, chemicals and hormones fueling him enables him to lift a car far easier than any normal human usually would under any other circumstance.

    captain america is that but 100% of the time. every single part of him is at all times operating under the highest ability it could in a process that if it were happening full time in a normal human would probably kill them after awhile if from nothing but physical exhaustion and burn out.

    he may not have magical spells or claws or a metal suit but he is definitely not just a guy who hits the gym.

    this also applies to his ability to process information and reaction times.
    The problem with that is that marvel clearly does believe you can get to "peak human" by hitting the gym. Guys like Moon Knight and Daredevil are also considered peak human and they don't have a super soldier serum running through their veins.. that's kinda what I mean when I say the term "peak human" isn't very well defined. They're all considered "peak human" and yet Captain America is still on a higher level. So he's more "peak human" than other "peak humans".

    Also, what you are saying is that captain America is, 100% of the time, operating at a physical level that would kill any normal human...even normal humans in the marvel universe. That pretty much explicitly describes a super human individual. He's not in the same physical league as someone like Spider-man by any means...but still more than Daredevil in pretty much ever area except agility (the one physical stat boost daredevil gets from his powers is perfect equilibrium...which does help him out in the agility department)

    Plus there is still that 10 times faster reaction time and that he sees faster than the human eye and processes information faster than the human mind.

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    The problem with that is that marvel clearly does believe you can get to "peak human" by hitting the gym.
    Except Moon Knight is only "Peak Human" with the blessing of Honshu. When totally under his own power he's considered "Olympic level" which is marvel slang for "Get this level by hitting the Gym."

    Daredevil is a tricky one, because he's shown SOME peak human stats, especially strength and durability. But it's never clarified if that's because of exposure to the radiation which gave him his sonar or not.
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  20. #320
    Daredevil...I recall he could benchpress 450LBS. Here we are


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