Is arena / BG's still scaled?

[fragnot77]

Im a 414 PVE Balance Druid, but i want to play abit of Feral PvP outside of raiding days. I dont have agility trinkets or feral weapon though.

Im wondering, will people still be scaled in arena and bg's ? So basically, i could buy a 370 weapon and find some low ilvl trinkets and still be allright?


Or am i totally missing something here

[Kralljin]

I guess yeah, scaling is still a thing.

Problem is, at least as far as i know, Blizzard didn't share any details how scaling actually affects character power.
Which i find utterly stupid on top of the scaling mechanic working rather "hidden", but that's another story.

[clownpenisfart]

yeah, so given how completely useless my freshly leveled 120 mage with not even 100k hp is, whatever scaling exists is purely anecdotal

i mean i quit back in august and you'd think since then they'd have addressed pvp being literally unplayable until you have had enough luck with the rng but apparently not

now i understand why so many people dont bother and just make level 119 twinks, i should have done the same, i'd still be able to do bgs

what a shit show

[Druitz]

Well there is scaling in instanced pvp but it works different than in legion. Pve nerds were crying that they got gear but they can't smash people on bgs so here we go fresh 120 have very hard time vs full geared ppl. In legion people were pushing 2.5k+ in low ilvl, now they can't

2 days ago i have leveled my hpala, the first time i joined rated 2v2 i had 105k hp and it was nightmare, i couldn't break 1.7k because of people killing me on one stun but in legion i had 40ilvls disadvantage over other people and it was just 4%.

Sadly you rly need gear to pvp or you will be destroyed by most players, even bad ones but geared

[clownpenisfart]

I mean I've been playing since TBC and even when world pvp was at its worst at least BGs were always playable without doing PvE (or in legion some stupid 2min afk world invasion pve). It's the first time where even battlegrounds are out of reach of someone who only want to do pvp.

I don't understand how they are so short sighted. When you make a game in the million players range, you have to cater for many different playstyles, because several million players aren't all going to enjoy the same things.

A large game like this should be a buffet where you can pick and eat whatever you want. Wow is structured rigidly as a 3 course meal and you're not allowed to eat what you want until you have completed the main course.

The most infuriating part is that all those problems had previously been solved. The pvp gear system in WoD was perfect. Then for some inscrutable reason they decided to tear it apart and to cater only to a fraction of the player base.

They would say that PvEers are the majority, of course, because they completely fail to take survivorship bias into account. I wonder if the current wow team leadership might not be fixated on what their analytics tell them, without realizing that it only tells them about their current subscriber base, not about the potential subscribers that are currently not wanting to play the game for various reasons.

Ah well, rant over. As we say in france, it's like pissing in a violin at this point.

[Kralljin]

Pve nerds were crying that they got gear but they can't smash people on bgs so here we go fresh 120 have very hard time vs full geared ppl.

As far i recall, most people that complained over it were in fact PvP players that had issues with their lack of progression, as gear was not very relevant in PvP during Legion.
Personally, i preferred Templates, but PvE gear has been subpar for PvP since Wotlk, barring Weapons and Trinkets.

The best advice to gear yourself currently is to go for the efficient PvE catch ups, World quests, Emissaries, Invasions, etc..
Gearing yourself entirely via PvP is something that is probably a huge pain right now, due Conquest being a shit system and the only other source is entirely random.

[Druitz]

As far i recall, most people that complained over it were in fact PvP players that had issues with their lack of progression, as gear was not very relevant in PvP during Legion.
Personally, i preferred Templates, but PvE gear has been subpar for PvP since Wotlk, barring Weapons and Trinkets.

The best advice to gear yourself currently is to go for the efficient PvE catch ups, World quests, Emissaries, Invasions, etc..
Gearing yourself entirely via PvP is something that is probably a huge pain right now, due Conquest being a shit system and the only other source is entirely random.

The only way to gear quickly is to spam m+10 But for this you rly need 380ilvl with pugs or you will not even get invited.

People were crying that they can't choose what stats they got. Scaling was good idea overall but it should be like templates but you can choose stats by equiping items with crit not haste.

Actually expansions like wotlk were unplayable at some point without pve gear espesially during s7 and s8

[Kralljin]

People were crying that they can't choose what stats they got.

I remember fairly distinctly that people mostly pointed towards the "no progression thing".

Actually expansions like wotlk were unplayable at some point without pve gear espesially during s7 and s8

I'm no mood to argue over things that happened over a decade ago, but even in Wotlk, most people cared about PvE weapons and Trinkets.
Shadowmourne, DBW, DFO, Lana'thel Healer Trinket, etc.

Without enough PvP gear, you got blown up within seconds due the lack of Resilience.

[clownpenisfart]

As far i recall, most people that complained over it were in fact PvP players that had issues with their lack of progression, as gear was not very relevant in PvP during Legion.

The only progression in pvp should be getting better at it. The only way the artificial number based progression of pve could work in pvp would be if the matchmaking was able to match together people of roughly equivalent gear, but that's an intractable problem.
And it is utterly incompatible with world pvp, which was supposed to be one of the pillars of BfA.

This simply doesn't work. They figured that pve progression and pvp were incompatible almost 15 years ago as they developed burning crusade. It then took them no less than five iterations throughout five expansion packs to come up with an acceptable solution.

And all that they learned during all that time was discarded and forgotten as the dev team leadership's changed. There's no continuity in the design of the game. Something that finally works well today can just be discarded in the next expansion pack. That's not exactly inspiring long term confidence.

[Kralljin]

The only progression in pvp should be getting better at it.

Take that on with the people that hated this aspect of the template system, not me.
I never had any issues with gear not mattering in PvP, but considering Blizzard at least gave into those people to some extent, they are seemingly not an insignificant minority.

They figured that pve progression and pvp were incompatible almost 15 years ago as they developed burning crusade.

Bit of nitpicking, that was figured out after TBC.

Resilience was mostly there to balance PvP, thing was that a lot of people simply dipped their feet into PvP for like 10 games per week in order to buy a single item every few weeks - which was fine because Gladiator items in BC could compete with their PvE counterparts.
Also, once Blizzard made S1/S2 gear available via Random BG's, a lot of people simply leeched Random bg's with their fresh 70's because the PvP gear was, as said, on par with PvE gear and far easier to acquire.

So with Wotlk, they made PvP gear strictly worse than its current PvE counterpart, to avoid people getting easy upgrades from PvP for PvE progression.

And all that they learned during all that time was discarded and forgotten as the dev team leadership's changed.

I doubt it was forgotten, i think their intention was to eliminate gear as a factor in PvP mostly and perhaps to attract some people to PvP due it also possibly awarding upgrades for you.

[clownpenisfart]

Take that on with the people that hated this aspect of the template system, not me.

Don't take it personally, I wasn't taking it on you.

I doubt it was forgotten, i think their intention was to eliminate gear as a factor in PvP mostly

?
Maybe with the template system, yes (even though ilevel still counted so it was an half-assed system). But currently, absolutely not. Just tried another BG, my 100k hp makes me the primary target. Even if it didn't, i'd put up such crap damage that they wouldn't care. Most players have at least double my HP.

Yesterday I did get a consolation drop after losing a BG. It was a ring which I couldn't equip because I already had one of the same. Love to play just for the privilege of entering a raffle that gives mostly redundant items.

[Kralljin]

Maybe with the template system

Well yeah, the current system is like a bad crossbreed between the template and the previous system.

Yesterday I did get a consolation drop after losing a BG. It was a ring which I couldn't equip because I already had one of the same. Love to play just for the privilege of entering a raffle that gives mostly redundant items.

The current issue of WoW is that rather than attempting to create a good game, it caters to too many types of players that are diametrically opposed to each other in what they want from the game.

The current scaling system is a good summary of that.
Does it please people that liked the advantages of the Template system? Nope.
Did it restore the progression to PvP? No, not really.

The current devs simply have no idea anymore who their core audience is or what they want, they just try to design their game around everybody and please nobody.

[Trend]

The only progression in pvp should be getting better at it. The only way the artificial number based progression of pve could work in pvp would be if the matchmaking was able to match together people of roughly equivalent gear, but that's an intractable problem.
And it is utterly incompatible with world pvp, which was supposed to be one of the pillars of BfA.

This simply doesn't work. They figured that pve progression and pvp were incompatible almost 15 years ago as they developed burning crusade. It then took them no less than five iterations throughout five expansion packs to come up with an acceptable solution.

And all that they learned during all that time was discarded and forgotten as the dev team leadership's changed. There's no continuity in the design of the game. Something that finally works well today can just be discarded in the next expansion pack. That's not exactly inspiring long term confidence.

You make your opinion sound like it is black & white truth. It's not, it's just your opinion. Personally I not only think it is odd for gear not to matter in an MMO, but I also consider Legion's instanced pvp to be a departure from the rest of the history of WoW in this regard. This is my opinion.

Continuity can be overrated. Players generally want some amount of change so things don't feel stale.

[clownpenisfart]

You make your opinion sound like it is black & white truth. It's not, it's just your opinion. Personally I not only think it is odd for gear not to matter in an MMO, but I also consider Legion's instanced pvp to be a departure from the rest of the history of WoW in this regard. This is my opinion.

Ah yes, let's all preface each of our posts with a disclaimer stating that this is obviously our opinions. Idiot.

Also continuity doesn't mean "never change anything". Who has binary opinions here?

[Trend]

Ah yes, let's all preface each of our posts with a disclaimer stating that this is obviously our opinions. Idiot.

Also continuity doesn't mean "never change anything". Who has binary opinions here?

Yeah why be self aware of the line between opinion and facts when we can be dogmatic fucktards? AMIRITE?

[clownpenisfart]

Yeah why be self aware of the line between opinion and facts when we can be dogmatic fucktards? AMIRITE?

What are you even on about?

Let's look at your opinion: "gear should matter in an MMO", offered without explanation or rationale. This is also a widely accepted idea. That's dogmatic.
My opinion: "Gear difference renders the quality of your performance during the actual pvp fight pointless so ideally gear shouldn't be a factor" - There's a rationale, an explanation. That's not dogmatic.

[Trend]

What are you even on about?

Let's look at your opinion: "gear should matter in an MMO", offered without explanation or rationale. This is also a widely accepted idea. That's dogmatic.
My opinion: "Gear difference renders the quality of your performance during the actual pvp fight pointless so ideally gear shouldn't be a factor" - There's a rationale, an explanation. That's not dogmatic.

First there is your name. Then there is your inability to recognize and/or admit what would make the expression of an opinion dogmatic (or not.) I think I've said enough.

Good luck to you.

[clownpenisfart]

First there is your name. Then there is your inability to recognize and/or admit what would make the expression of an opinion dogmatic (or not.) I think I've said enough.

Good luck to you.

You're just some typical moronic wow player, unable to actually address any point made in a discussion. You have done nothing but assert your opinions against mine without actually debating the points I made. It's projection as its finest. You have brought exactly nothing to the discussion except loudly proclaiming your disagreement.

DISCLAIMER: That's just my opinion, since apparently you need it pointed out.

[Nargoron]

It's quite funny... in RPG games people dislike that they need better gear to progress their power.
Maybe Counter Strike is for you?

entire scaling is stupid idea in such a game as mmorpg -.-

[cparle87]

Well yeah, the current system is like a bad crossbreed between the template and the previous system.



The current issue of WoW is that rather than attempting to create a good game, it caters to too many types of players that are diametrically opposed to each other in what they want from the game.

The current scaling system is a good summary of that.
Does it please people that liked the advantages of the Template system? Nope.
Did it restore the progression to PvP? No, not really.

The current devs simply have no idea anymore who their core audience is or what they want, they just try to design their game around everybody and please nobody.

You said it yourself, bro. The idea that a "core audience" exists is itself a fallacy. There's no such thing. Just look at the classic crowd. There's a million slightly differing opinions of what it should be, and none of them are going to get exactly what they want. Expecting a game to be attuned to your wants and becoming angry with the game or its developers for not getting what you want is simply illogical.