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  1. #181
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Yeah, all you need to know about the "pro-life" movement in the US is that they're anti-abortion, but pro-capital punishment.
    They also tend to be against welfare, against education, against anti-poverty, against sexual education, against easy access to healthcare . . .

    They want to burden our system with millions of unwanted children without supporting said children, telling these mothers, after forcing them to have said children, to pull themselves up from their bootstraps.

    These people claim 50 million died since Roe V Wade. But I want to hear the grand Republican plan for supporting these 50 million extra people in the US.
    3.6 roentgen . . . not great, not terrible. - Comrade Dyatlov

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    This post specifically is the one I am talking about - one is clearly logically superior, as the other side doesn't actually use any type of logic to dictate their opinions. Its always either something incredibly vague, or based on feelings, or because ''God commands," or "think of the children!" ... all of which ignore reality and logic.
    As you can see I didn't say they were right. I hold fast in with that it's not logically superior to have one value or the other. One is more factual correct when it comes down to if they are considered a person or not, but that wasn't my point.

    The point is there are people who value LIFE above all, they don't care about the person or the baby per se...but life in of itself. That LIFE have intrinsic value that supersedes the right of bodily autonomy. Doesn't matter if science says it's not a baby or a person, it's still life and thus it should be protected. You can't be "logically superior" in any way to remove the fact that it's life. Because it is.

    Take note, since you like to make head canons, I was never talking about the people in power pushing for legalisation or for what purpose they are doing it. Most people, regardless of side in power, rarely do things out of benevolence, but rather ways to stay in power. We all know that.

    I was talking about how pointless a discussion in reality rarely leads anywhere, simply because two parties are coming from two different angles with two different values. Like if we were discussing different ice cream flavors. We can throw logic and facts about any flavor to try and persuade someone but it won't change the fact in which you think tastes the best and thus are superior. Same goes for the intrinsic value of life.

    You are a prime example of my entire point btw. You keep harping about definitions of what constitutes a person while others harp about the value of life. Two different angles and values trying to change a common practice that both are involved in.

    It's like if we take the ice cream example where you argue that it's bad because it has more sugar. While I don't care about sugar amount and I enjoy it because I like it for another reason, lets say they have choco chips in it. You keep going on about facts on how much sugar and how it's bad for me, but all that matters to me in that case is just if I enjoy it. You are trying to convince someone based on what you value and what you find important to support your values but forgetting that the other person probably don't care about the sugar and only cares if it has choco chip in it or not.

    PS. I'm not talking about what science says about fetuses being persons or not, so don't harp on about it. I cba explaining something over and over again and I don't even know how to phrase it differently. If you go on about scientific definitions I will just not respond since we are talking about different points and I wish you a continued good evening.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2019-05-20 at 04:48 PM.

  3. #183
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    The point is there are people who value LIFE above all, they don't care about the person or the baby per se...but life in of itself. That LIFE have intrinsic value that supersedes the right of bodily autonomy. Doesn't matter if science says it's not a baby or a person, it's still life and thus it should be protected. You can't be "logically superior" in any way to remove the fact that it's life. Because it is.
    Fun Fact: Just because people value something doesn't mean that their values are worth respecting. Especially if said values are actively harmful to others.

    "Which matters more; the freedom to live an authentic life, or the freedom to crush degenerates under the heel of a jackboot?
    As a centrist, I am undecided."

    - Natalie Wynn, "Transtrenders"

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Fun Fact: Just because people value something doesn't mean that their values are worth respecting. Especially if said values are actively harmful to others.
    Fun Fact: I never made such claim nor did I say you should respect any value.
    Fun Fact 2: not sure what the purpose of the post was since it had no relevance.

  5. #185
    The Unstoppable Force cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    https://www.vanityfair.com/style/201...y-inconsistent

    So basically, he's conceded that he is not interested in whether the embryo is a "person" and therefore sacrosanct to the pro-life movement, because they aren't inside a woman. Pretty much a naked statement that this has nothing to do with the embryo at all, and that their only interest is in control of a woman's body.
    And don't forget the naked stupidity, where eggs are always in a women, unless otherwise removed.
    The less you know, the more you believe.

    Science has promised us nothing and given us everything, faith has promised us everything and given us nothing.

  6. #186
    Scarab Lord Leotheras the Blind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    An embryo/fetus is not a person.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Logically, the people of Alabama don't care, and I would extend that to the vast majority of republicans/conservatives.
    Blacks weren't considered people during slavery, and jews weren't considered people in nazi germany. Just because you don't think they're people, doesn't make you right.

    Tell you what, if the baby is killed, and it's heart beat is stopped, who's heart beat stops? Is it the mother? Does the mother have two hearts now? Two brains?
    Just remember that Leftists actually believe rape isn't as bad as being called a cunt.
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    If you aren't more hurt by words than "sticks and stones" you're a simpleton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    They don't do that either. There has not been a single instance of tyranny in American history that has been prevented or stopped by guns being a thing.

  7. #187
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    Blacks weren't considered people during slavery, and jews weren't considered people in nazi germany. Just because you don't think they're people, doesn't make you right.

    Tell you what, if the baby is killed, and it's heart beat is stopped, who's heart beat stops? Is it the mother? Does the mother have two hearts now? Two brains?
    Better question: why does it matter.

    "Which matters more; the freedom to live an authentic life, or the freedom to crush degenerates under the heel of a jackboot?
    As a centrist, I am undecided."

    - Natalie Wynn, "Transtrenders"

  8. #188
    Scarab Lord Leotheras the Blind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Better question: why does it matter.
    Because killing babies is fucked up. I can't believe you can't understand that.
    Just remember that Leftists actually believe rape isn't as bad as being called a cunt.
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    If you aren't more hurt by words than "sticks and stones" you're a simpleton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    They don't do that either. There has not been a single instance of tyranny in American history that has been prevented or stopped by guns being a thing.

  9. #189
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    Because killing babies is fucked up. I can't believe you can't understand that.
    Know what’s more fucked up? Depriving an actual person of their bodily rights because of a fetus.

    "Which matters more; the freedom to live an authentic life, or the freedom to crush degenerates under the heel of a jackboot?
    As a centrist, I am undecided."

    - Natalie Wynn, "Transtrenders"

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Know what’s more fucked up? Depriving an actual person of their bodily rights because of a fetus.
    If only there was some way to prevent pregnancy!

  11. #191
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    If only there was some way to prevent pregnancy!
    If only this weren't a non sequitur.

    "Which matters more; the freedom to live an authentic life, or the freedom to crush degenerates under the heel of a jackboot?
    As a centrist, I am undecided."

    - Natalie Wynn, "Transtrenders"

  12. #192
    Scarab Lord Leotheras the Blind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Know what’s more fucked up? Depriving an actual person of their bodily rights because of a fetus.
    Bodily rights? You mean the ability to kill someone (that you went out of your way to make, because making a baby doesn't happen because you decide to eat peanut butter toast instead of jelly toast one morning) because they're an inconvenience, man you're a pretty evil dude. And also what right?
    Just remember that Leftists actually believe rape isn't as bad as being called a cunt.
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    If you aren't more hurt by words than "sticks and stones" you're a simpleton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    They don't do that either. There has not been a single instance of tyranny in American history that has been prevented or stopped by guns being a thing.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    Blacks weren't considered people during slavery, and jews weren't considered people in nazi germany. Just because you don't think they're people, doesn't make you right.
    Yes, and there was one other thing black people and Jews have in common (with each other and every other person who has ever lived): They were all born and no longer entirely reliant on the bodily functions of another human for their development and survival.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    Tell you what, if the baby is killed, and it's heart beat is stopped, who's heart beat stops? Is it the mother? Does the mother have two hearts now? Two brains?
    What, precisely, is so significant about a heartbeat? But since you do think it's so important: If the mother's heartbeat stops, what happens to her baby?

  14. #194
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    Bodily rights? You mean the ability to kill someone (that you went out of your way to make, because making a baby doesn't happen because you decide to eat peanut butter toast instead of jelly toast one morning) because they're an inconvenience, man you're a pretty evil dude.
    No, I mean bodily autonomy. In no other case does the right to life supersede it.

    "Which matters more; the freedom to live an authentic life, or the freedom to crush degenerates under the heel of a jackboot?
    As a centrist, I am undecided."

    - Natalie Wynn, "Transtrenders"

  15. #195
    Scarab Lord Leotheras the Blind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Yes, and there was one other thing black people and Jews have in common (with each other and every other person who has ever lived): They were all born and no longer entirely reliant on the bodily functions of another human for their development and survival.


    What, precisely, is so significant about a heartbeat? But since you do think it's so important: If the mother's heartbeat stops, what happens to her baby?
    Everyone to an extant is reliant on another to continue existence. Are you okay with infanticide? Of course if the mother dies so does the baby. Let me ask you a question now. Say your mother/sister/girlfriend/female friend is pregnant. Say someone on the street beats the piss out of her stomach to the point of the baby being miscarried. Should that personal only be charged with assault and battery?
    Just remember that Leftists actually believe rape isn't as bad as being called a cunt.
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    If you aren't more hurt by words than "sticks and stones" you're a simpleton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    They don't do that either. There has not been a single instance of tyranny in American history that has been prevented or stopped by guns being a thing.

  16. #196
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    What, precisely, is so significant about a heartbeat? But since you do think it's so important: If the mother's heartbeat stops, what happens to her baby?
    Didn't you hear? Women give up their personhood the moment they decide to spread their legs.

    Pregnancy is just god's punishment for being a slut, clearly. /s

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    Everyone to an extant is reliant on another to continue existence. Are you okay with infanticide? Of course if the mother dies so does the baby. Let me ask you a question now. Say your mother/sister/girlfriend/female friend is pregnant. Say someone on the street beats the piss out of her stomach to the point of the baby being miscarried. Should that personal only be charged with assault and battery?
    Yes. Next question.

    "Which matters more; the freedom to live an authentic life, or the freedom to crush degenerates under the heel of a jackboot?
    As a centrist, I am undecided."

    - Natalie Wynn, "Transtrenders"

  17. #197
    Scarab Lord Leotheras the Blind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    No, I mean bodily autonomy. In no other case does the right to life supersede it.
    Unless a woman is going to die from the pregnancy/birth, what gives her the right to kill a life she went out of her way to create?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Yes. Next question.
    At least you're consistent in being pure evil.
    Just remember that Leftists actually believe rape isn't as bad as being called a cunt.
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    If you aren't more hurt by words than "sticks and stones" you're a simpleton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    They don't do that either. There has not been a single instance of tyranny in American history that has been prevented or stopped by guns being a thing.

  18. #198
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    Unless a woman is going to die from the pregnancy/birth, what gives her the right to kill a life she went out of her way to create?
    The fact that we as a society have come to the conclusion that people are invariably better off with a strong right to bodily autonomy gives her that right.

    If you cause a car accident and the other person needs a blood transfusion and you are a type match, you cannot be legally compelled to surrender your blood even if it would save that person's life and even if you were at fault.

    Same thing applies here. Whether or not the fetus is a person/alive/human or what the fuck ever doesn't matter.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    At least you're consistent in being pure evil.
    You're going to have to justify this beyond saying "killing babies is bad", because it's not an argument. It's an appeal to emotion.

    "Which matters more; the freedom to live an authentic life, or the freedom to crush degenerates under the heel of a jackboot?
    As a centrist, I am undecided."

    - Natalie Wynn, "Transtrenders"

  19. #199
    Scarab Lord Leotheras the Blind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Pregnancy is just god's punishment for being a slut, clearly. /s
    There's literally only one thing that will get a woman pregnant.
    Just remember that Leftists actually believe rape isn't as bad as being called a cunt.
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    If you aren't more hurt by words than "sticks and stones" you're a simpleton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    They don't do that either. There has not been a single instance of tyranny in American history that has been prevented or stopped by guns being a thing.

  20. #200
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    There's literally only one thing that will get a woman pregnant.
    And I ask again; why does it matter.

    Consent to sex is no more consent to pregnancy than driving a car is consent to be hit by a drunk driver.

    "Which matters more; the freedom to live an authentic life, or the freedom to crush degenerates under the heel of a jackboot?
    As a centrist, I am undecided."

    - Natalie Wynn, "Transtrenders"

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