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  1. #161
    Pandaren Monk Avskildhet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenarific View Post
    Life begins at conception....
    So? Killing something that's alive isn't always bad.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    "they"? I'm talking about Pro-Life in general. I'm sure the ones sitting in the committe and/or power for this are anti-women. But saying there aren't Pro-Life people who care about the life is just flat out wrong. If you read my arguments it was a discussion about values, in which some value womens rights more than the life of a fetus, while others value the opposite.
    I think that argument is referring to the stance of the right wing which is that once the baby is out they will do nothing for it because they oppose any government program that will benefit the child or the parents. If you look at the states pushing this they are some of the worse places to raise a family.

    It's a awful disconnect with the family values they claim and their actions.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    I think that argument is referring to the stance of the right wing which is that once the baby is out they will do nothing for it because they oppose any government program that will benefit the child or the parents. If you look at the states pushing this they are some of the worse places to raise a family.

    It's a awful disconnect with the family values they claim and their actions.
    Definitely

  4. #164
    Pit Lord De thuong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urasim View Post
    My wife had an IUD and her periods were super light and she didn't have much pain in general. I don't know all the different types of IUDs though, so hers is probably a lot different than yours. Also, people are different and experience things differently. Sucks that it made yours worse, though.
    She probably had hormonal one then.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Spicymemer View Post
    I dont understand why people are angry, this is the democratic process.

    Women are roughly 50% of the voting block, im sure there are men in alabama that arent conservative.

    I know americans generally are pretty dumb, but surely you understand how to vote?
    Laws aren't introduced to or voted on by the public.

    There is no state where support for banning abortion after 6 weeks passes 25% by the general populace.

    Both Alabama and Ohio have voted anti-Abortion bills after 6 weeks into law.

    Unfortunately, the general populace of hundreds of thousands of people per state, is represented by some-odd 33 people in Alabama. Those 33 people voted 26-7 in favor of the bill, despite LESS THAN 25% SUPPORT for the bill.

    The problem with the US, is that we vote in Senators who then change/abuse voting districts to ensure they keep their position, then they can vote however they please, despite not voting in favor of their constituents. They simply ensure each districts that WILL vote for them, gets the majority of the weight in terms of deciding the race.

    Which is what makes all of this so god damn funny. One of the biggest Repuglicken defenses against progressive policies is "Well if your ideals were popular enough, they'd get through!"

    But because Repuglicken policies are so unpopular that Repuglickens can't fairly win races, they have to cheat to make sure they still hold their position, so they can force their unpopular policies on people.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2019-05-18 at 11:17 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Josuke View Post
    Showing them is. Saying "they will be on birth control" is an odd way to show you value your kids autonomy
    You assumed her daughter was opposed to being on birth control?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenarific View Post
    Life begins at conception....
    A blade of grass is alive. But a blade of grass doesn't have a right to life. Spiders are alive. Bacteria are alive.

    So what exactly gives you a right to life? It isn't just being alive. Heaps of things are alive without a right to life.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  7. #167
    i had to google what "pro-life" is....

    lol. just lol.

    cant he just call it what it is. anti-abortion.

    a fetus is biologically considered the same entity as the mother until birth. no one is dying.

    seems more self righteous than an argent dawn paladin! bah.. politicians.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Spicymemer View Post
    I dont understand why people are angry, this is the democratic process.

    Women are roughly 50% of the voting block, im sure there are men in alabama that arent conservative.

    I know americans generally are pretty dumb, but surely you understand how to vote?
    "Bloc".

    Apparently this law is actually deeply unpopular even in Alabama.

    Less than a third of Alabamians indicated last year that they approved of the provisions of the abortion ban passed by the state Legislature earlier this week and signed by Gov. Kay Ivey on Wednesday, according to polling conducted on behalf of Planned Parenthood’s southeast affiliates.

    The survey showed that as lawmakers and the governor signed off on the country’s most restrictive abortion law, its provisions were deeply unpopular among Alabamians overall – and even the state’s most conservative residents.
    https://www.al.com/news/2019/05/alab...ing-shows.html

    This is pure cynical partisan politics, make no mistake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    i had to google what "pro-life" is....
    Yeah, all you need to know about the "pro-life" movement in the US is that they're anti-abortion, but pro-capital punishment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  9. #169
    The Insane Masark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Yeah, all you need to know about the "pro-life" movement in the US is that they're anti-abortion, but pro-capital punishment.
    Also anti-maternal care and pro war.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
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  10. #170
    I am Murloc! unfilteredJW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Life begins at conception, it doesn't begin at eggs, senator failed biology.
    How the fuck did you type this out without laughing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Destroyer of Leftism View Post
    He destroyed nothing. His posts are nothing but lies, strawman and degeneracy.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    All you are arguing for is why you value it less. Doesn't change the fact that they value it more than you do and even more than women's rights ti treor body.

    You do make a false equivalency though since it's not about forcing people to become pregnant. Just that they aren't allowed to terminate life. Which they are pretty clear, at least majority I've heard srguments from, is during conception. Aka when sperm fertilize an egg. Not when women have period or when men ejaculate trough masturbation.

    You are literally an example of what I mentioned in my first post. You use your values as baseline and use your rationale to say someone else have their values wrong. Even though it's a subjective matter.

    Also, I have a side. Why do you assume I do not? I just value seeing and understanding my oppositions arguments and you trying to tell me that trying to understand is a negative thing is just flat out retarded. I will never be willfully ignorant by refusing to try and see others perspectives on any matter. By doing so I also showed my concern that this will never really be resolved just because people value different things.

    If you think that makes me appear to pretend to be superior idc. It is just you admitting that you refuse to do so and that's the only conclusion you can draw from it.
    I don't care who values what, I care about what is logical. If X group of people valued the idea of rape being okay, would you post the same thing? 'Ope, well I see both sides!"

    "Life" is a bad argument and always have been. Its completely about control and forcing women to stay pregnant. Its an invasion of privacy and overrules the basic bodily autonomy of human rights. Again, just because someone has X value, or X opinion, doesn't mean jack shit. After conception, the EMBRYO is not a child, its not a person. That is a fact. If you are trying to argue from a basis of "life" then sperm and unfertalized eggs, as well as cancer, ants, and stomach bacteria all count. I hope you don't masturbate, or you're a murderer!

    This isn't subjective. Your first post is garbage and basically says nothing at all. It can be summed up as "I have nothing to say, both sides are both right and wrong!" You act like every opinion has some amount of validity but not all opinions are formed or can be defended equally. Would you say the same rhetoric when talking about someone trying to defend racism?

    I've read the arguments and don't think they are remotely valid, especially since someone who is anti-choice ... can just choose not to get an abortion? There you go, problem solved. The same argument here is just religious morality, which is the same type of argument used to ban gay marriage. Again, just because someone can crap out a half brained "idea' doesn't mean we need to give any credence to it.

    I don't refuse to do anything. I have listened to the arguments and read them. I don't need to respect them if they are stupid and illogical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D3thray View Post
    Sounds like you’re arguing personhood and life depends on geographic location. Which is absurd and pretty unscientific. You also seem to think there is nothing of merit to a pro-life argument. I usually find people who believe they are 100% correct haven’t thought about it much and don’t know a great deal about the topic.
    You are correct, there is no merit to pro-life arguments.

    Nothing I said mentions geography though.

  12. #172
    The Insane Dug's Avatar
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    At the top level I personally believe at its core the whole pro-life bullshit is a last ditch effort to try and ward off demographic changes. If white people can't have abortions then they can't be "replaced" or whatever dumb shit these racist morons think.

    For the regular "pro life" joes they buy into the propaganda of all life is precious crap but theres more to it then the powers that be are letting on.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    A fetus or baby or whatever is probably the most innocent thing in the world. Comparing them to death row inmates is an odd comparison lol.
    But life is sacred! Thou shalt not kill! That is a directive passed down directly from God..... how can these God fearing people ignore that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by InTheEnd View Post
    I doubt the idiotic senators that signed this bill through were thinking about denying rights to women/girls. I don't know why so many people have to make this about misogyny and racism. If female senators signed in a bill that restricted men's access to health care it wouldn't be called misandrist and there wouldn't be men with signs rallying how men/boys are under attack. Sure, they'd be ridiculed and criticised (rightly so) but wouldn't make it a gender issue. Why do these people always have to incite a gender war by appealing to misogyny when that is not the actual reason.
    Logically, thats all it is, though.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I don't care who values what, I care about what is logical. If X group of people valued the idea of rape being okay, would you post the same thing? 'Ope, well I see both sides!"

    "Life" is a bad argument and always have been. Its completely about control and forcing women to stay pregnant. Its an invasion of privacy and overrules the basic bodily autonomy of human rights. Again, just because someone has X value, or X opinion, doesn't mean jack shit. After conception, the EMBRYO is not a child, its not a person. That is a fact. If you are trying to argue from a basis of "life" then sperm and unfertalized eggs, as well as cancer, ants, and stomach bacteria all count. I hope you don't masturbate, or you're a murderer!

    This isn't subjective. Your first post is garbage and basically says nothing at all. It can be summed up as "I have nothing to say, both sides are both right and wrong!" You act like every opinion has some amount of validity but not all opinions are formed or can be defended equally. Would you say the same rhetoric when talking about someone trying to defend racism?

    I've read the arguments and don't think they are remotely valid, especially since someone who is anti-choice ... can just choose not to get an abortion? There you go, problem solved. The same argument here is just religious morality, which is the same type of argument used to ban gay marriage. Again, just because someone can crap out a half brained "idea' doesn't mean we need to give any credence to it.

    I don't refuse to do anything. I have listened to the arguments and read them. I don't need to respect them if they are stupid and illogical.

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    You are correct, there is no merit to pro-life arguments.

    Nothing I said mentions geography though.
    You conflate values with opinions. Values often shape your opinions, yes... but they can also be as subjective as just having different interests. Or have different tastes in food. We can eat something new which we have no experience in and put different values and rating on it how good it was and it won't be based on logic or science, just different interpretation based on previous experiences.

    You keep arguing for a point that isn't there. I never said they are logical, I never said they are right. I have never said "both sides are both right or wrong". Read my posts instead of making shit up.

    Most of your post is just rambling with no connection to the discussion I've been having with others.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Dug View Post
    At the top level I personally believe at its core the whole pro-life bullshit is a last ditch effort to try and ward off demographic changes. If white people can't have abortions then they can't be "replaced" or whatever dumb shit these racist morons think.

    For the regular "pro life" joes they buy into the propaganda of all life is precious crap but theres more to it then the powers that be are letting on.
    I think it's definitely about GOP demographics, but I don't think it's so much about that "white genocide" crap (which is basically what you described). Instead, it's basically the last social issue that they have to motivate their evangelical Christian base. When they lose the "vote NOW to stop the evil leftists from murdering hundreds of thousands of babies a year!!!" talking point, they have very little left to offer other than generic lies about the good ol' days.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    You tell me one ethical thing about killing a baby.
    An embryo/fetus is not a person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    "they"? I'm talking about Pro-Life in general. I'm sure the ones sitting in the committe and/or power for this are anti-women. But saying there aren't Pro-Life people who care about the life is just flat out wrong. If you read my arguments it was a discussion about values, in which some value womens rights more than the life of a fetus, while others value the opposite.
    Logically, the people of Alabama don't care, and I would extend that to the vast majority of republicans/conservatives.

  17. #177
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    I think it's definitely about GOP demographics, but I don't think it's so much about that "white genocide" crap (which is basically what you described). Instead, it's basically the last social issue that they have to motivate their evangelical Christian base. When they lose the "vote NOW to stop the evil leftists from murdering hundreds of thousands of babies a year!!!" talking point, they have very little left to offer other than generic lies about the good ol' days.
    Yeah - they're losing the battle on everything else; divorce is legal, prayer and creationism are increasingly on the decline in schools, and they lost the gay marriage fight.

    "Which matters more; the freedom to live an authentic life, or the freedom to crush degenerates under the heel of a jackboot?
    As a centrist, I am undecided."

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  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    You conflate values with opinions. Values often shape your opinions, yes... but they can also be as subjective as just having different interests. Or have different tastes in food. We can eat something new which we have no experience in and put different values and rating on it how good it was and it won't be based on logic or science, just different interpretation based on previous experiences.

    You keep arguing for a point that isn't there. I never said they are logical, I never said they are right. I have never said "both sides are both right or wrong". Read my posts instead of making shit up.

    Most of your post is just rambling with no connection to the discussion I've been having with others.
    Values are opinions, yes. As in, "In my (wrong) opinion, life begins at conception..." The issue is that Alabama specifically (as well as other states) are enforcing rules based on feelings and opinion, instead of any kind of logic. You don't need a logical explanation to tel me why you love cheese, or why you hate the color red. But when you try to enforce a law, you need to have it backed up by logic.

    I read your post, and it comes down to an ignorant notion that "both sides" should be respected, which is rather disturbing to say the least.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    I read your post, and it comes down to an ignorant notion that "both sides" should be respected, which is rather disturbing to say the least.
    Then you haven't read my posts or you don't understand them. Me saying they have different values have very little to do with "respect them and their values", which...I've never said.
    It must be simple to be against your own imagination of things.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Then you haven't read my posts or you don't understand them. Me saying they have different values have very little to do with "respect them and their values", which...I've never said.
    It must be simple to be against your own imagination of things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Right, that's what both sides thinks. One values life, one values women's rights. They aren't arguing about women's bodies, they are arguing for the babies life. Thanks for proving my point though, by saying hey it's my body you shouldn't decide about it, while ignoring the actual stance which is the babies life which you don't even adress.

    You are simply valuing women's rights of their bodies above the value of the babies life

    They value opposite. Neither value is "logically" superior since it's simply subjective values.
    This post specifically is the one I am talking about - one is clearly logically superior, as the other side doesn't actually use any type of logic to dictate their opinions. Its always either something incredibly vague, or based on feelings, or because ''God commands," or "think of the children!" ... all of which ignore reality and logic.

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