Classic WoW will be a lesson in nostaligia vs reality

[micwini]

I've been playing WoW since Christmas '04. I was there for every major in-game event in WoW history. Mentioning this isn't an attempt to flex as much as its about countering halfwits who claim that experience > logical arguments. (Experience isn't more valid than logic, BTW.) So to preempt that bullshit, know that I've probably had more experience with WoW at every stage in the past than any given critic.

BfA may not have done everything perfectly, but the WoW you can log into today is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Classic in just about every single aspect you can possibly image. The people who "remember" how great Classic WoW was are in reality remembering their experiences (not the gameplay itself) and how much they enjoyed WoW back in the day. In an effort to recapture the joy of the old days, they think all that must be done is to recreate the game they enjoyed. But they're not understanding that it wasn't about the quality of the game, rather it was about the sense of wonder and excitment for something new (and great! for its time) and their own ability to enjoy things back then vs now.

If all the years of improvements and the cumulative content could be magically added to Classic WoW - and we in our teenage years could have had access to the whole of WoW as it is now, instead of what it was back then - our enjoyment and memories of the game would almost certainly be even deeper, stronger, and more varied. And we'd never go back to some half-baked, pre-learning experience WoW classic. It would be taking away a myriad of features that make WoW a great game, and once nostalgia is removed from the picture, it doesn't make sense.

Its a WoW stripped of most - if not all - of what makes today's WoW so good. It's a barebones WoW that is deeply flawed, but was **so good for its time** that it barely mattered. WoW grew up along with us; that doesn't mean you can recapture the halcion days of the past by removing all the progression WoW has made, any more than you can recapture the joy and memories of your teenage years by trying to re-enroll in high school & droppin your current job in favor of part time McDonalds and moving out of your house to live with your parents again.

Some people have to experience the disappointment for themselves before they can accept the reality of the situation.
That, or because they prefer the vastly simplified systems and hardcore-rewarding emphasis of Classic WoW.
WoW Classic had virtually no endgame, it was just that everything took far, far longer to complete.
I for one can't wait to see the bitching and moaning on the forums pertaining to how Classic WoW "isn't really classic" i.e. has been changed in some way.
Nah, what changed the game was your memories. Full stop.

BFA is not light years ahead of classic. They are light years APART.
Except for the name, they are very different games, each of which caters to a different audience.

[Cairnay]

Classic WoW will rather be a lesson in why a community built by social interaction brings a much nicer and more meaningful gaming experience.

[Gungnir]

Yeah, it is weird. After all it is the same game, the same people who make it. People sometimes seem like split personality...hate the Blizzard of 2019 for BfA but love the Blizzard of 2019 for putting out Classic.

Since you brought up Runescape...I have no idea how many ppl play it, but the argument that "can't comprehend how people can enjoy something other " - swings both way. I guess what pisses people off is the "Classic will have more subs, kill retail, bla bla bla" mentality. And ofc on the other side it is the "Classic is just a fad, it will die out in 6 months". As long as we get this kind of talk, the forums will keep burning for the stupidest reasons ever.

But why am I surprised....we have had our civil wars forever in RL..why would we be different here.

Of course, people won't ever be civil and neither side of the argument is right.
I just personally get more annoyed with the "IT'S JUST NOSTALGIA" argument than the "it'll kill retail" argument. Mainly because the first argument tries to belittle and devalue a personal opinion, whereas the second argument is belittling and devaluing retail as a product.

Regarding Runescape, last I checked OSRS (Old School Runescape) had more players than "retail" Runescape.
Sometimes a more simplified, streamlined and "quality of life" version of a game isn't the better version. That applies even more when it comes to RPG games.

[Taqaroph]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k5K4a-teWo

[Cainium]

Always whenever I see threads like this one I'm thinking about if those people don't now what retro-gaming is, that there is abig community around retro-gaming and that people participating in it actually LIKE the old games. And they do this with games where there isn't and evolved version available at all.

Basically all single player games have limited content, yet are still very popular.

(And BfA doesn't have any new endgame content either, M+ has been the last relevant addition, everything else is old crap polished to dazzle morons who think it's "new and cool")

[Blayze]

Nintendo keeps re-releasing old games on new consoles. So there must be a market for it.

Those aren't MMOs. I don't have to find an army of other people if I want to play LttP on my 3DS.

[Killersoxfan]

That's one big issue I have: it's not all the different. It's just worse.

What you're interpreting as differences is in fact just a lack of development. Everything that WoW is today came from Classic WoW. It was the precursor; we play the result. Creating an artificial separation in your mind to make sense of Classic WoW is fine, but that doesn't mean it corresponds with reality.

It has the same system, and its essentially the same philosophy except for a select few exceptions.
This is still World of Warcraft.

I mean I don't hate the idea of classic WoW - I'm going to make a character myself, and my brother is the opposite of me (he's super excited for it, and started WoW the same time I did). However, he's also 5 years younger than me so when he started he was 11 and that influenced his sense of nostolgia.



That has nothing to do with creativity, dipshit. My mom purchased WoW for me Christmas 04, and I haven't stopped since.
Next time, maybe think a little longer before you post.

Noone needs to think longer to invalidate your useless hater post. You people have already been proven wrong. Wish mmo champ would delete these pointless hate spewing threads.

[Celarent]

I used to get excited seeing a fat crit but now I crit so often so fast, all i look at is my dps on a meter. (Record crit on beta: 214, aww yiss).

No joke — one of the bigger draws for me is to actually utilize single- and double-digit stats for once.

[Orbusg]

I've honestly never seen so many people, here, the official forums, or anywhere else, that unironically hate so much that a game is coming out for a group of people that have been asking for it.
It really puts into perspective the worry and intimidation of the retail community over classic's success, the pettiness of trying to make it a failure before it has even released.

[Ielenia]

I've never said it was a single factor, in actuality it's a combination of things that have together had a massive impact on WoW over the years, and they keep excacerbating the issue with every iteration.

And yet you completely ignore factors such as: now they may have a family; maybe they're no longer into gaming; maybe they are no longer into MMO; they're no longer into WoW; etc.

[NightElfMohawk]

It's okay for people to prefer modern WoW, and it's okay for people to prefer WoW Classic. It is not a one or the other option thankfully.

[hulkgor]

Can anyone explain why people feel the need to so strongly bash other people's preferences?

Holy hell, people won't stop enjoying classic because your excellencies keep repeating it's bad, it's impossible to enjoy, it's horrible. Give it a fucking rest.

Play whatever the fuck you want, it's irrelevant what others play. You don't need your choice validated to enjoy it... do you?

[czarek]

Another blah blah blah thread >< Just play it if you enjoy. Its obvious classic isnt for everyone just like retail isnt for everyone. I remember days when forums were full of the desire to create classic servers. Now ppl blame about classic. Wtf is wrong with you ppl ?

[Gungnir]

And yet you completely ignore factors such as: now they may have a family; maybe they're no longer into gaming; maybe they are no longer into MMO; they're no longer into WoW; etc.

The average age of WoW players back in the day was mid 20's.
They already have families, jobs etc. Why do people keep bringing up the argument of "YEAH WELL NOW THEY MIGHT HAVE FAMILIES AND JOBS" like those things didn't exist pre-BfA.

If people could play Vanilla with jobs and families, what's the excuse behind dwindling sub numbers you're going to pull out next?

Another blah blah blah thread >< Just play it if you enjoy. Its obvious classic isnt for everyone just like retail isnt for everyone. I remember days when forums were full of the desire to create classic servers. Now ppl blame about classic. Wtf is wrong with you ppl ?

Some people are just toxic fucks to the point where they actively hate other people enjoying things, as they're miserable playing retail WoW.

[Ielenia]

The average age of WoW players back in the day was mid 20's.
They already have families, jobs etc. Why do people keep bringing up the argument of "YEAH WELL NOW THEY MIGHT HAVE FAMILIES AND JOBS" like those things didn't exist pre-BfA.

If people could play Vanilla with jobs and families, what's the excuse behind dwindling sub numbers you're going to pull out next?

Yeah, except I'm not the one here taking an option I offered as a possible contributing factor and dishonestly applying to every single player that left WoW over these 15 years.

[Gungnir]

Yeah, except I'm not the one here taking an option I offered as a possible contributing factor and dishonestly applying to every single player that left WoW over these 15 years.

So.. as you've quoted a post where I specifically used the words "never said it was a single factor", as I indeed never stated that the decline of retail was due to a single factor, you've somehow come to the conclusion that the words I actually used was "it was due to a single factor".
Sir, do I need to call assistance?
Are you aware of your surroundings?

You seem a bit confused and agitated.

[Ielenia]

So.. as you've quoted a post where I specifically used the words "never said it was a single factor", as I indeed never stated that the decline of retail was due to a single factor, you've somehow come to the conclusion that the words I actually used was "it was due to a single factor".

You never stated in those many words, but that's what you heavily implied, blaming the decline of subs solely on the state of the game, completely ignoring player's agency.

[Gungnir]

You never stated in those many words, but that's what you heavily implied, blaming the decline of subs solely on the state of the game, completely ignoring player's agency.

Look, I am not going to get into a needless debate that'll just waste both of our time.
If you somehow interpreted that what I said had the implication of a sole factor then I apologize for wording it incorrectly, as it was not my intention at all.

Saying that the decline of a game is ever due to a sole factor is facetious at best, it's always a combination of things going wrong, I'll never debate against that because it would simply be untrue.

[Nerevar]

Pirate servers existed since forever, holding strong and big communities. It's not going to be a lesson in anything. Get over it already, jfc.

[Pounder]

The real lesson is figuring out how to finish a sentence.