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  1. #361
    Titan Aggrophobic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stricks View Post
    Okay... Classic difficulty may be way overblown, but you are way off base. Way more than those who are proclaiming Classic is the HARDEZT EVAR!

    So great job, we now have two polar opposites instead of being in the middle where every reasonable person is.
    But I'm really not. You could litteraly 5-man raids even with the gear that droped from thoes raids.
    Most of the raid could be AFK for all of MC and the only difference would be that the bosses took longer to kill. Dealing with that one (or usually no) mechanic was super easy.

    Many of the LFR bosses are way harder than most classic boses with appropriate gear. There are extremes where balance was way off and that made thoes bosses silly but overall, I'm not "way off base" at all.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentail View Post
    You have 2 things wrong right now.

    1. RS is a different type of game that appeals more to the WoW Classic player than a modern player. Not to mention Classic RS.

    2. RS has more players than Classic RS. It's consistently been this way forever. Modern RS always maintains roughly 30% more players than Classic RS. Jagex doesn't even try to hide this fact either. It's advertised right on their website. 100,000 people online. Classic has about 80,000 people online. Yes, these number will fluctuate, but only sometimes does Classic actually surpass Modern and it's not for long when it does. Consider that most of the OSRS player base is all that's left that even plays the RS at all anymore and yet they're still surpassed by modern stuff.

    Overall, what will probably happen is the same thing that happened to RS but with higher player counts.

    1. Classic launches. A massive onslaught of people play Classic. Old and new players all hop on to experience it.
    2. Classic is a few months old. Nearly all players that didn't play Classic in the first place are back to modern WoW/other games.
    3. Classic is half a year old. A lot of the players who wanted Classic realize that it is, in fact, an old game, and stop playing.
    4. Classic is a year old and most players realize they've become bored.

    Classic is left with a small player base. This is how it happens to RS. This is how it happens to all nostalgic things. Classic is an attempt to save WoW in what Blizzard possibly sees as being close to end-of-life. It will bring many players back, but it won't save the game and the majority of players will be temporary. Blizzard will make a massive dollar day 1, but will see an incredibly massive dropoff by just a couple short quarters later. This is what nostalgia does to people. It's hilarious to me that people think Classic WoW is going to be some magical exception to a rule that has always ruled over Nostalgia. It's not that I don't want them to be an exception, but I'm not going to lie to myself about the situation. I highly suspect Blizzard is 100% aware of everything in this post already too. They will probably use the immediate, but not steady, funds that Classic will bring to fund a new project.
    Even with a player base of 2k ish per faction is enough in most cases and it will be much higher with non private servers, we managed to find plenty of groups on a few that I played on at all level ranges.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Yes, of course it will be. Even Blizzard knows and has already acknowledged this.

    Classic is a very expensive way of doing away with the negative press they were getting but the vast majority of players will not enjoy or play classic. It's simply not a very good game by todays standards.

    Heck, I'd be surprised of most players make it passed the very first zone. It's that boring and slow.
    Do you mean the actual definition of "most" (i.e. you actually think 51% or more of people playing Classic will not make it out of the first zone?)...

    Why can't your kin understand that it's not about what version is better??? There are different types of games that appeal to different types of players. It's that simple. Some people like WoW at a slower pace, where leveling is a slog and you have annoying things like ammo and pet food and reagents; some people like faster paced games with more actiony combat where leveling is quick and easy and there as few "annoying" aspects as possible getting in my way of hacking and slashing.

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    But I'm really not. You could litteraly 5-man raids even with the gear that droped from thoes raids.
    Most of the raid could be AFK for all of MC and the only difference would be that the bosses took longer to kill. Dealing with that one (or usually no) mechanic was super easy.

    Many of the LFR bosses are way harder than most classic boses with appropriate gear. There are extremes where balance was way off and that made thoes bosses silly but overall, I'm not "way off base" at all.
    We also know all the fights in every single raid now back to front for classic.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

  5. #365
    The Lightbringer Heathy's Avatar
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    for me its going to be the raid lockouts,

    I don't think it'll be too bad for those ppl who go in with a group of friends or manage to get a spot in an active raiding guild. if you can't dedicate time to raiding with a guild, then you are going to be fucked.

    pugging didn't fair so well in classic because of the raid lockouts and instance ID's. this made pugging very difficult to do because if the raid wasn't cleared in one run, you missed out on those kills for that week. so you couldn't effectively pug without potentially screwing yourself for the rest of the week.

    these days its not a problem at all you can pug all week, you can keep going into raids and killing bosses for the fun of the encounters themselves and get zero loot. but you couldn't do this in classic. so those ppl who can't find a dedicated raiding, guild and schedual. will have a very difficult and frustrating time getting saved to half assed raids where the leader leaves half way through and screws everyone over. you lose your ID because someone in your pug steals the instance when you log off. ahh great times.

    beyond the lockouts i'm not sure what bothers me, tbc was better for pugging karazhan and zul'aman were practically designed to be cleared in one raid so the whole lockout problem wasn't so much of a problem. but classics raids, molten core, zg, aq20, you probably won't clear them in one raid. so you won't find many ppl willing to pug them and risk losing out on kills for that week.

    the game is just much more inclusive of time these days, you can log in and pug raid whenever the hell you want. but for classic, you will be relying on scheduled raids. i'm sure many pugs will be successful, but I do remember a significant reluctance to risk being saved to a raid you never finish that week.

    the end game was essentially bottlenecked by raid lockouts and instance ids. these things significantly slowed down progression in a very arbitrary way.

    for example, replacing ppl in a pug in classic, nearly impossible, who wants to get saved to a raid where most of the bosses are dead? you won't get replacements so if ppl leave. thats it.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2019-05-23 at 06:06 PM.

  6. #366
    Titan Aggrophobic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjub View Post
    Do you mean the actual definition of "most" (i.e. you actually think 51% or more of people playing Classic will not make it out of the first zone?)...

    Why can't your kin understand that it's not about what version is better??? There are different types of games that appeal to different types of players. It's that simple. Some people like WoW at a slower pace, where leveling is a slog and you have annoying things like ammo and pet food and reagents; some people like faster paced games with more actiony combat where leveling is quick and easy and there as few "annoying" aspects as possible getting in my way of hacking and slashing.
    Yes, that is the very definition of most. I am not sure what you mean by "my kind" but as it seems I'll be paying for classic I'm going to go ahead and bash it all day long as a belive it's a waste of effort and resources that could have been put into retail.

    If these were two seperate subs then it would be less of an issue for me.

  7. #367
    I am Murloc! Mister K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zentail View Post
    You have 2 things wrong right now.

    1. RS is a different type of game that appeals more to the WoW Classic player than a modern player. Not to mention Classic RS.

    2. RS has more players than Classic RS. It's consistently been this way forever. Modern RS always maintains roughly 30% more players than Classic RS. Jagex doesn't even try to hide this fact either. It's advertised right on their website. 100,000 people online. Classic has about 80,000 people online. Yes, these number will fluctuate, but only sometimes does Classic actually surpass Modern and it's not for long when it does. Consider that most of the OSRS player base is all that's left that even plays the RS at all anymore and yet they're still surpassed by modern stuff.

    Overall, what will probably happen is the same thing that happened to RS but with higher player counts.

    1. Classic launches. A massive onslaught of people play Classic. Old and new players all hop on to experience it.
    2. Classic is a few months old. Nearly all players that didn't play Classic in the first place are back to modern WoW/other games.
    3. Classic is half a year old. A lot of the players who wanted Classic realize that it is, in fact, an old game, and stop playing.
    4. Classic is a year old and most players realize they've become bored.

    Classic is left with a small player base. This is how it happens to RS. This is how it happens to all nostalgic things. Classic is an attempt to save WoW in what Blizzard possibly sees as being close to end-of-life. It will bring many players back, but it won't save the game and the majority of players will be temporary. Blizzard will make a massive dollar day 1, but will see an incredibly massive dropoff by just a couple short quarters later. This is what nostalgia does to people. It's hilarious to me that people think Classic WoW is going to be some magical exception to a rule that has always ruled over Nostalgia. It's not that I don't want them to be an exception, but I'm not going to lie to myself about the situation. I highly suspect Blizzard is 100% aware of everything in this post already too. They will probably use the immediate, but not steady, funds that Classic will bring to fund a new project.
    This logic is broken.

    If RS 100k and Classic RS is 80k and simillar would happen with Classic WoW, then Classic WoW would not have a "small" player base.

    If we can play classic and still be able to find groups at any level range, then that's a success. Blizzard already stated they can run the servers with minimal players and we can easily foresee at least 40k pop for Classic on average.

    SOOOOOOU
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  8. #368
    I can't wait for people who have never even played Classic to jump in and fall in love with it, then I can remember stupid threads like this one, and laugh to myself.
    Scheduled weekly maintenance caught me by surprise.

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister K View Post
    This logic is broken.

    If RS 100k and Classic RS is 80k and simillar would happen with Classic WoW, then Classic WoW would not have a "small" player base.

    If we can play classic and still be able to find groups at any level range, then that's a success. Blizzard already stated they can run the servers with minimal players and we can easily foresee at least 40k pop for Classic on average.

    SOOOOOOU
    This is what I was trying to explain the ps the rebirth before it was shut down had about 2.5k players on each faction and there was 0 issue finding people for groups. If we get close to even 20k playing there will be no issues ever.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Yes, that is the very definition of most. I am not sure what you mean by "my kind" but as it seems I'll be paying for classic I'm going to go ahead and bash it all day long as a belive it's a waste of effort and resources that could have been put into retail.

    If these were two seperate subs then it would be less of an issue for me.
    You do realize that it has been specified numerous of times by the devs themselves that Classic is not pulling resources from retail.
    If you're unhappy with retail then you'll have to deal with the fact that they've done it themselves, and it isn't due to some mythical project that took all the developers from the retail side.

    Also, two seperate subs?
    So you're saying that, somehow, if retail and Classic subs were two different things you'd be more okay with things?
    That makes even less sense because it literally wouldn't matter in the slightest.

  11. #371
    How do people explain Oldschool Runescape?

  12. #372
    Titan Aggrophobic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    You do realize that it has been specified numerous of times by the devs themselves that Classic is not pulling resources from retail.
    If you're unhappy with retail then you'll have to deal with the fact that they've done it themselves, and it isn't due to some mythical project that took all the developers from the retail side.

    Also, two seperate subs?
    So you're saying that, somehow, if retail and Classic subs were two different things you'd be more okay with things?
    That makes even less sense because it literally wouldn't matter in the slightest.
    But that is simply not true. The game is payed for by the same subscription and as it still has not made any money (as it's not released yet) it's obviously using resources from retail.

    It also would matter as the project would be put on hold once the subs dropped enough.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Yes, that is the very definition of most. I am not sure what you mean by "my kind" but as it seems I'll be paying for classic I'm going to go ahead and bash it all day long as a belive it's a waste of effort and resources that could have been put into retail.

    If these were two seperate subs then it would be less of an issue for me.
    First of all you should realize that Blizzard are trying to do this Classic project with very few resources. I doubt there will be much (if any) GM support. Most of the stuff will be automated. I'm pretty sure the Classic team in terms of devs is also rather small with them just trying to get the client and server working properly in the first place and making the adjustments on the technical end - code adjustments.

    There is pretty much no work going into graphics design (every minor change here is again just on the technical end). They don't have to write or record any music. There are no new video sequences. Also there are no designers working on the world - neither outdoor nor dungeons. The class mechanics also just have to be set up based on the old numbers => technical implementation through code.

    I'm not really sure where people see this "waste of resources".

    You want to talk about wasting resources?
    How about we talk about when they re-designed the level 1-60 areas back in Cataclysm? They made massive adjustments in a lot of areas in terms of design, quests and various other things. And what did they do afterwards? They reduced the time it took to level from 1-60 so you out-leveled the areas at an insane pace. I've never fully looked at the content and stories below level 60 after Cataclysm was released because there really was no point in going there except maybe if you wanted specific achievements...

    THAT was a waste of resources. WoW Classic is actually a sensible project in my opinion because one it is up and running it will easily pay for itself just because people will need an active sub to play it. And even for modern WoW centric players Classic is always an option just in case you get bored (btw. it also works the other way around)...

  14. #374
    This video is a suitable address to the OP xD

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f56n...YjX09SrxZJyP7c

    I'm not a streamer fan kind of guy, but i must admit i saw this video yesterday and almost wept my pants laughing... It's funny how the human brain works

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinnobi View Post
    Its a WoW stripped of most - if not all - of what makes today's WoW so good.
    I see you're not even serious. WoW has been stripped of stuff and freaking dumbed down so low I couldn't give a fuck since the last two expansions.
    I know that people can argue that the spell count doesn't need to be so big for each class, talents didn't need to be so many and spells don't need to work like they used to do. But damn... blizz has been caring for the dumb/uneducated mass of players that are in the majority of wow's playerbase and just dumbing the game down to shit.

  16. #376
    It will most likely be a lesson for retail lovers when their game is heavily changed to have vanilla design philosophy after the huge success. A lesson to realize they are simply addicted to WoW and are only playing it due to heavy sunk cost and previous good times.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by gunchix View Post
    I see you're not even serious. WoW has been stripped of stuff and freaking dumbed down so low I couldn't give a fuck since the last two expansions.
    I know that people can argue that the spell count doesn't need to be so big for each class, talents didn't need to be so many and spells don't need to work like they used to do. But damn... blizz has been caring for the dumb/uneducated mass of players that are in the majority of wow's playerbase and just dumbing the game down to shit.
    Dumbing the game down so much that LFR today has more mecanics than raids back in vanilla.

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Dumbing the game down so much that LFR today has more mecanics than raids back in vanilla.
    What's the purpose of those many mechanics if you can ignore all or almost all of them?

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by voidillusion View Post
    What's the purpose of those many mechanics if you can ignore all or almost all of them?
    Try to ignore a mecanic in LFR when you are not outgearing the content to see how it goes.

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Try to ignore a mecanic in LFR when you are not outgearing the content to see how it goes.
    Joining LFR and outgearing content in the same sentence makes me chuckle

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