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  1. #401
    He's obviously trolling by saying LFR is harder. Retail babbies think their best line of attack is to call Classic "easy", they hope this will discourage people from leaving en masse and increasing their queue times.

    Sorry, not gonna work. The only thing you could argue is more difficult on retail is Mythic raiding and high end Mythic dungeons, but it's all meaningless anyway when it exists in such a soulless, spiritless game world where prestige is non-existent and content and achievements are made irrelevant within a couple of months. Not only that but Classic has many things to consider that aren't just about mechanics that make the feeling of accomplishment actually greater than content that on a spreadsheet might have more "mechanics".

    The greatest thing about Classic I think will be how good it is for casuals. If you are a casual what exactly is the point of doing world quests and LFR to get meaningless random gear that becomes irrelevant within weeks. On Classic you will be able to make a small amount of progress on your character every day, but that progress will actually mean something, and in the long run what you achieve will feel infinitely more rewarding.

  2. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantera View Post
    You seem slightly out of touch because as a serious player looking to do the challenging content, LFR currently is absolutely pointless.
    This is not the point. I am not playing MMORPGs to "challenge myself".. That's Diablo/Warframe.. I can run some ridiculous level of mission or Greater Rift and try my build in that scenario. And this is where I can get behind multiple difficulties even, I believe they wen little overboard with that.

    I was playing MMORPGs for adventure for lack of better words. And friends, community. I liked that world make sense. Running Wailing Caverns as lowbies was interesting but not certainly the hardest thing..you were killing animals and druids there. But when someone killed Nefarian, you knew that took some dedication, time and experience. The fact, that there were just harder content along the way, these elite quests for example, made world interesting (to me) and believable. There were these zones with elite monsters..I loved it. Leveling, while some people call it tedious, was just more challenging and it felt so good to somehow finish some harder quest line - just one of the many things I loved in Vanilla.

    I am not hating current wow or people, who enjoy that. I just hate, that wow went in way, it killed almost everything I loved about that game. I know why I loved it. I loved difficulty, which were just present there, not just in some artificially fashion, like turning dungeon run to eleven - again, that's Diablo for me, where I am not immersed into world.

    Thankfully, classic is on the way and I know it's just not rose colored glasses for me.
    Last edited by ManiaCCC; 2019-05-24 at 01:48 PM.

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinnobi View Post
    I've been playing WoW since Christmas '04.
    are you still playing, because you seemed to have left your thread after being owned many times.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by ManiaCCC View Post
    This is not the point. I am not playing MMORPGs to "challenge myself".. That's Diablo/Warframe.. I can run some ridiculous level of mission or Greater Rift and try my build in that scenario. And this is where I can get behind multiple difficulties even, I believe they wen little overboard with that.

    I was playing MMORPGs for adventure for lack of better words. And friends, community. I liked that world make sense. Running Wailing Caverns as lowbies was interesting but not certainly the hardest thing..you were killing animals and druids there. But when someone killed Nefarian, you knew that took some dedication, time and experience. The fact, that there were just harder content along the way, these elite quests for example, made world interesting (to me) and believable. There were these zones with elite monsters..I loved it. Leveling, while some people call it tedious, was just more challenging and it felt so good to somehow finish some harder quest line - just one of the many things I loved in Vanilla.

    I am not hating current wow or people, who enjoy that. I just hate, that wow went in way, it killed almost everything I loved about that game. I know why I loved it. I loved difficulty, which were just present there, not just in some artificially fashion, like turning dungeon run to eleven - again, that's Diablo for me, where I am not immersed into world.

    Thankfully, classic is on the way and I know it's just not rose colored glasses for me.
    I get what you're saying, I mean I've been there since the early days myself. But how is someone killing Nefarian much different from someone killing Jaina mythic for example? Yeah it's different difficulties but ultimately it's proof of someone being among the top% of players and achieving something spectacular. I get what you're saying about the open world though and I agree on some points. I also liked that some enemies were a lot harder and you might need a group, though the drop rates on many quests made it absolutely tedious to level through more than once.

    For some people m+ isn't their thing, for me I really like it as a system to really measure your own skill and see how high you can go. What was frustrating with 5-man content back in the day was that it wasn't really that challenging and once you overcame the obstacle (usually with gear) you could never go higher than that.

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantera View Post
    I get what you're saying, I mean I've been there since the early days myself. But how is someone killing Nefarian much different from someone killing Jaina mythic for example? Yeah it's different difficulties but ultimately it's proof of someone being among the top% of players and achieving something spectacular. I get what you're saying about the open world though and I agree on some points. I also liked that some enemies were a lot harder and you might need a group, though the drop rates on many quests made it absolutely tedious to level through more than once.

    For some people m+ isn't their thing, for me I really like it as a system to really measure your own skill and see how high you can go. What was frustrating with 5-man content back in the day was that it wasn't really that challenging and once you overcame the obstacle (usually with gear) you could never go higher than that.
    Thats exactly the point. Difficulty levels are not appealing. Presence of easy mods alredy impacts players behavior towards game. It doesnt matter if they do it or not. Fact that option is in game affect how you think about game. I complelty lost any interest for raiding when LFR came out. It just seemd pointless. 2 difficulty levels was something i was ok with even i didnt like it. Then they added more and more and more and no thats not mmorpg anymore.

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Thats exactly the point. Difficulty levels are not appealing. Presence of easy mods alredy impacts players behavior towards game. It doesnt matter if they do it or not. Fact that option is in game affect how you think about game. I complelty lost any interest for raiding when LFR came out. It just seemd pointless. 2 difficulty levels was something i was ok with even i didnt like it. Then they added more and more and more and no thats not mmorpg anymore.
    If you lost interest in raiding just because LFR came out, I doubt you ever did any high end content anyways.

    Regardless, it's a fact that LFR making it seem pointless to you is a deluded viewpoint. The content would've already been pointless anyways, LFR doesn't change that in any significant way.

    Either 2 difficulty modes existing ruined raiding for you, or a lack of meaningful rewards for higher end content did. In neither of those situations is LFR the defining reason. It simply can't be.

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantera View Post
    I get what you're saying, I mean I've been there since the early days myself. But how is someone killing Nefarian much different from someone killing Jaina mythic for example? Yeah it's different difficulties but ultimately it's proof of someone being among the top% of players and achieving something spectacular. I get what you're saying about the open world though and I agree on some points. I also liked that some enemies were a lot harder and you might need a group, though the drop rates on many quests made it absolutely tedious to level through more than once.

    For some people m+ isn't their thing, for me I really like it as a system to really measure your own skill and see how high you can go. What was frustrating with 5-man content back in the day was that it wasn't really that challenging and once you overcame the obstacle (usually with gear) you could never go higher than that.
    Just from my perspective...I want kill Nefarian not because it's difficult fight, but because it's that badass dragon doing the bad things and it's dangerous to (virtual) world - and difficulty of the fight should come from this - he is huge, evil, super dangerous so of course, he should be powerful.

    When you remove this feeling and just put several difficulties on his place, killing Nefarian has no impact, no emotion.. it's just "well, anyone can do it no problem" thing. You could say that killing boss on some super hard Mythic level provide these emotions..and yes, it does - however in same way like completing Diablo 3 Greater Rift 90..yes, it's exciting for a second, but there is no immersion, it doesn't means anything in context of the game.

    Again, I am not saying it's wrong. I too play these ARPGs or looter-shooters where you are doing exactly this - however, that's not the reason, why I want play MMORPGs.

    My 2 cents.

  8. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by ManiaCCC View Post
    Just from my perspective...I want kill Nefarian not because it's difficult fight, but because it's that badass dragon doing the bad things and it's dangerous to (virtual) world - and difficulty of the fight should come from this - he is huge, evil, super dangerous so of course, he should be powerful.

    When you remove this feeling and just put several difficulties on his place, killing Nefarian has no impact, no emotion.. it's just "well, anyone can do it no problem" thing. You could say that killing boss on some super hard Mythic level provide these emotions..and yes, it does - however in same way like completing Diablo 3 Greater Rift 90..yes, it's exciting for a second, but there is no immersion, it doesn't means anything in context of the game.

    Again, I am not saying it's wrong. I too play these ARPGs or looter-shooters where you are doing exactly this - however, that's not the reason, why I want play MMORPGs.

    My 2 cents.
    Thing is I get how you feel but I doubt retail could ever return to one difficulty again. It worked in vanilla by having pretty simple raids that were big in scope and the challenge was less in the raids themselves but more in keeping a roster, getting the full group, getting people to perform somewhat without the wonders of technology we've had since with addons and sites like icy-veins. But I suppose thats a good reason why classic and retail can coexist. You can have classic that has easier raids with long attunements where it's more about getting through it and you can have mythic raiding on retail that's a lot more intricate with mechanics and such.

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