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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    What are you talking about "you're saying Blizzard will succeed where literally no one else ever has before"? Take a look at Runescape, Old school is drastically more popular than modern RS and it's not just "nostalgia", people actually enjoy the way it plays better.
    You have 2 things wrong right now.

    1. RS is a different type of game that appeals more to the WoW Classic player than a modern player. Not to mention Classic RS.

    2. RS has more players than Classic RS. It's consistently been this way forever. Modern RS always maintains roughly 30% more players than Classic RS. Jagex doesn't even try to hide this fact either. It's advertised right on their website. 100,000 people online. Classic has about 80,000 people online. Yes, these number will fluctuate, but only sometimes does Classic actually surpass Modern and it's not for long when it does. Consider that most of the OSRS player base is all that's left that even plays the RS at all anymore and yet they're still surpassed by modern stuff.

    Overall, what will probably happen is the same thing that happened to RS but with higher player counts.

    1. Classic launches. A massive onslaught of people play Classic. Old and new players all hop on to experience it.
    2. Classic is a few months old. Nearly all players that didn't play Classic in the first place are back to modern WoW/other games.
    3. Classic is half a year old. A lot of the players who wanted Classic realize that it is, in fact, an old game, and stop playing.
    4. Classic is a year old and most players realize they've become bored.

    Classic is left with a small player base. This is how it happens to RS. This is how it happens to all nostalgic things. Classic is an attempt to save WoW in what Blizzard possibly sees as being close to end-of-life. It will bring many players back, but it won't save the game and the majority of players will be temporary. Blizzard will make a massive dollar day 1, but will see an incredibly massive dropoff by just a couple short quarters later. This is what nostalgia does to people. It's hilarious to me that people think Classic WoW is going to be some magical exception to a rule that has always ruled over Nostalgia. It's not that I don't want them to be an exception, but I'm not going to lie to myself about the situation. I highly suspect Blizzard is 100% aware of everything in this post already too. They will probably use the immediate, but not steady, funds that Classic will bring to fund a new project.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinnobi View Post
    I've been playing WoW since Christmas '04. I was there for every major in-game event in WoW history. Mentioning this isn't an attempt to flex as much as its about countering halfwits who claim that experience > logical arguments. (Experience isn't more valid than logic, BTW.) So to preempt that bullshit, know that I've probably had more experience with WoW at every stage in the past than any given critic.

    BfA may not have done everything perfectly, but the WoW you can log into today is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Classic in just about every single aspect you can possibly image. The people who "remember" how great Classic WoW was are in reality remembering their experiences (not the gameplay itself) and how much they enjoyed WoW back in the day. In an effort to recapture the joy of the old days, they think all that must be done is to recreate the game they enjoyed. But they're not understanding that it wasn't about the quality of the game, rather it was about the sense of wonder and excitment for something new (and great! for its time) and their own ability to enjoy things back then vs now.

    If all the years of improvements and the cumulative content could be magically added to Classic WoW - and we in our teenage years could have had access to the whole of WoW as it is now, instead of what it was back then - our enjoyment and memories of the game would almost certainly be even deeper, stronger, and more varied. And we'd never go back to some half-baked, pre-learning experience WoW classic. It would be taking away a myriad of features that make WoW a great game, and once nostalgia is removed from the picture, it doesn't make sense.

    Its a WoW stripped of most - if not all - of what makes today's WoW so good. It's a barebones WoW that is deeply flawed, but was **so good for its time** that it barely mattered. WoW grew up along with us; that doesn't mean you can recapture the halcion days of the past by removing all the progression WoW has made, any more than you can recapture the joy and memories of your teenage years by trying to re-enroll in high school & droppin your current job in favor of part time McDonalds and moving out of your house to live with your parents again.

    Some people have to experience the disappointment for themselves before they can accept the reality of the situation.
    That, or because they prefer the vastly simplified systems and hardcore-rewarding emphasis of Classic WoW.
    WoW Classic had virtually no endgame, it was just that everything took far, far longer to complete.
    I for one can't wait to see the bitching and moaning on the forums pertaining to how Classic WoW "isn't really classic" i.e. has been changed in some way.
    Nah, what changed the game was your memories. Full stop.
    If anything you are already proven wrong.People love retro games and play them.Classic WoW is the same nothing different here.People will play it.As PoE creator said you don't need more than 10k players for a successful game.And classic WoW will have much more as people like to play old games.
    It begins with absence and desire.It begins with blood and fear.It begins with....

  3. #63
    I mean, of course you're going to get bored of classic. I don't intend to play it forever. I just want to do the content I missed.

  4. #64
    Bloodsail Admiral time0ut's Avatar
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    Says you. I am a current active cutting edge raider and I am very much looking forward to Classic. It is literally a different genre of game that cannot even compare to BFA. I love both for different reasons and it isn't just nostalgia. I am looking for different things. BFA is challenging, fast paced, skill based gameplay. Classic is an old school MMO where the game is something to do while you hang out, meet new people, chat, etc.

  5. #65
    Vanilla is a rpg and not an esports shitfest where all that count is raid progress, arenas and r.io score, period.
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  6. #66
    Remember picking up an old console game back from when you used to play the hell out of it? And you decided to give it another go for old time's sake?

    Then you realized it aged horribly and lacks more than half of what its sequels has brought to the table?

    But you enjoyed it anyways, because you still have memories of it and you're living through them again. But this time, you're a bit more experienced and you want to complete everything this time around, or want to do things differently.



    That's classic wow.

  7. #67
    OP has left the forum with his tail between his legs. He can't handle being wrong.

  8. #68
    Classic and modern WoW might as well be different genres of games, they're significantly different.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Kantoro View Post
    Logic is an intellectual construct, experience is reality based on perception.

    Both are flawed in their own ways. Claiming that one is better than the other is subjective at best.
    Agreed but presenting perception as the one true reality is even more questionable in my opinion, and the cause of alot of harm on this planet.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentail View Post
    You have 2 things wrong right now.

    1. RS is a different type of game that appeals more to the WoW Classic player than a modern player. Not to mention Classic RS.

    2. RS has more players than Classic RS. It's consistently been this way forever. Modern RS always maintains roughly 30% more players than Classic RS. Jagex doesn't even try to hide this fact either. It's advertised right on their website. 100,000 people online. Classic has about 80,000 people online. Yes, these number will fluctuate, but only sometimes does Classic actually surpass Modern and it's not for long when it does. Consider that most of the OSRS player base is all that's left that even plays the RS at all anymore and yet they're still surpassed by modern stuff.

    Overall, what will probably happen is the same thing that happened to RS but with higher player counts.

    1. Classic launches. A massive onslaught of people play Classic. Old and new players all hop on to experience it.
    2. Classic is a few months old. Nearly all players that didn't play Classic in the first place are back to modern WoW/other games.
    3. Classic is half a year old. A lot of the players who wanted Classic realize that it is, in fact, an old game, and stop playing.
    4. Classic is a year old and most players realize they've become bored.

    Classic is left with a small player base. This is how it happens to RS. This is how it happens to all nostalgic things. Classic is an attempt to save WoW in what Blizzard possibly sees as being close to end-of-life. It will bring many players back, but it won't save the game and the majority of players will be temporary. Blizzard will make a massive dollar day 1, but will see an incredibly massive dropoff by just a couple short quarters later. This is what nostalgia does to people. It's hilarious to me that people think Classic WoW is going to be some magical exception to a rule that has always ruled over Nostalgia. It's not that I don't want them to be an exception, but I'm not going to lie to myself about the situation. I highly suspect Blizzard is 100% aware of everything in this post already too. They will probably use the immediate, but not steady, funds that Classic will bring to fund a new project.
    Obviously numbers are going to go down as time goes on but there will be a stable number of people playing Classic for years. The live game gets new content and the classic version doesn't, so you're stating the obvious. However, the way that Blizzard is spacing out the content with Classic will maintain interest for a while. Also, after that they can easily move on to TBC and Wotlk (even beyond if they really wanted to).

    The end result is WoW has more subs than it currently does and that's all that matters to Blizzard. But people acting like Classic won't have a strong playerbase because nostalgia is going to wear off are actually delusional.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    Obviously numbers are going to go down as time goes on but there will be a stable number of people playing Classic for years. The live game gets new content and the classic version doesn't, so you're stating the obvious. However, the way that Blizzard is spacing out the content with Classic will maintain interest for a while. Also, after that they can easily move on to TBC and Wotlk (even beyond if they really wanted to).

    The end result is WoW has more subs than it currently does and that's all that matters to Blizzard. But people acting like Classic won't have a strong playerbase because nostalgia is going to wear off are actually delusional.
    You're right. Nostalgia doesn't wear off. RS, Everquest, Rift, Star Wars, and LotR would all argue against you but you're right, those organizations are all delusional, not you.

  12. #72
    High Overlord Cockus Maximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinnobi View Post
    I've been playing WoW since Christmas '04. I was there for every major in-game event in WoW history. Mentioning this isn't an attempt to flex as much as its about countering halfwits who claim that experience > logical arguments. (Experience isn't more valid than logic, BTW.) So to preempt that bullshit, know that I've probably had more experience with WoW at every stage in the past than any given critic.

    BfA may not have done everything perfectly, but the WoW you can log into today is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Classic in just about every single aspect you can possibly image. The people who "remember" how great Classic WoW was are in reality remembering their experiences (not the gameplay itself) and how much they enjoyed WoW back in the day. In an effort to recapture the joy of the old days, they think all that must be done is to recreate the game they enjoyed. But they're not understanding that it wasn't about the quality of the game, rather it was about the sense of wonder and excitment for something new (and great! for its time) and their own ability to enjoy things back then vs now.

    If all the years of improvements and the cumulative content could be magically added to Classic WoW - and we in our teenage years could have had access to the whole of WoW as it is now, instead of what it was back then - our enjoyment and memories of the game would almost certainly be even deeper, stronger, and more varied. And we'd never go back to some half-baked, pre-learning experience WoW classic. It would be taking away a myriad of features that make WoW a great game, and once nostalgia is removed from the picture, it doesn't make sense.

    Its a WoW stripped of most - if not all - of what makes today's WoW so good. It's a barebones WoW that is deeply flawed, but was **so good for its time** that it barely mattered. WoW grew up along with us; that doesn't mean you can recapture the halcion days of the past by removing all the progression WoW has made, any more than you can recapture the joy and memories of your teenage years by trying to re-enroll in high school & droppin your current job in favor of part time McDonalds and moving out of your house to live with your parents again.

    Some people have to experience the disappointment for themselves before they can accept the reality of the situation.
    That, or because they prefer the vastly simplified systems and hardcore-rewarding emphasis of Classic WoW.
    WoW Classic had virtually no endgame, it was just that everything took far, far longer to complete.
    I for one can't wait to see the bitching and moaning on the forums pertaining to how Classic WoW "isn't really classic" i.e. has been changed in some way.
    Nah, what changed the game was your memories. Full stop.
    Before I make my point, I just want to let you know that I agree with you in a lot of ways. BfA has perfected many aspects of WoW. There are way more things to do nowadays than there ever was in Vanilla. The graphics are outstanding. I just wish they would update some of the older graphics to be honest. I love my Blood Knight warhorse from BC but my Paladin looks to good to be sitting on it nowadays.. the graphics just look out of place.

    All that being said, I do think there are certain aspects of Classic that actually devolved in current WoW. The first example is LFG. This is a great feature and everything, but I think it should never have been unlocked until max level. This was the first issue that ruined immersion for many players whether they're aware of it or not. Flying could be said to have ruined world PvP, but there are benefits to flying as well so I'll leave that out of this argument. Another thing are the portals. I get that many people nowadays don't have the time to commit to a game like WoW, but to the people that do, the portals make the world of Azeroth less of a world and more just a series of loading screens. If people who play MMOs wanted that, they could have the same type of "immersion" in a game like Fortnite. Finally, while I'm not one of the people praising Classic WoW class design, I do think that the one thing Classic did right was make each class feel unique. Being a Druid for instance mattered because only you could Battle Rez. Only a Warlock could summon people into dungeons, and before LFG this was actually a valuable ability to have. Same goes for Mages with their portals and drinks. Once portals became commonplace and mana became nearly infinite, Mages lost some of their uniqueness as well. Every class brought something that only THEY could bring to the table, which made the class you chose to play more flavorful IMO.

    Now do I think that people are going to realize that Classic WoW is not the game they thought it was? To be honest, most likely. However what I'm REALLY hoping for is that the devs use this as an experience to help them realize where they went wrong over the years. Hopefully this experience leads them to create the next expansion of modern WoW as the best of both worlds. Just like you said, while going back to relive your high school days may seem like a fun idea, there's a lot of baggage that comes with that (like living with your parents and/or working at mcds) which we would preferably avoid. But what if we could relive our high school days with our current jobs and living on our own? We would be like the coolest kid in school! This is what I hope the next expansion will be like after the devs learn what Classic WoW did right.

  13. #73
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clownpenisfart View Post
    1 Jan 3000, apparently. Not that it matters, because wow devs don't go to the eu forums.

    Ah, you mean here? I forgot my password, exceeded login attempts, and cba to reset the password and wait for the timeout. creating a new account was much faster, and which nickname I post with is irrelevant.
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  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Jinnobi View Post
    Next time, maybe think a little longer before you post.
    Sweet mother of irony.
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Damnit hubcap, you are such a retard.
    Quote Originally Posted by mojusk View Post
    Oh, and stop being a "didn't do that in vanilla"-police. If we're doing something now that we didnt do back then, it's not because we had some sorta unwritten moral code back then, it's because we hadn't thought of it yet.

  15. #75
    This is both new and interesting. Never read anything like this on the forums before.

  16. #76
    Just another forum poster who likes Modern WoW better than Classic, telling all Classic (to-be) players that Classic WoW is inferior because of yadda, yadda, yadda.

    In other news though:

    The same thing was said about OSRS, nobody gave a fuck. Surprise!
    Ocarina of Time is still one of the greatest games, if not the greatest game ever made, despite being a relatively overly simple game in comparison to modern great action adventure games.
    BFA is completely different than Classic.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Razzako View Post
    Just another forum poster who likes Modern WoW better than Classic, telling all Classic (to-be) players that Classic WoW is inferior because of yadda, yadda, yadda.

    In other news though:

    The same thing was said about OSRS, nobody gave a fuck. Surprise!
    Ocarina of Time is still one of the greatest games, if not the greatest game ever made, despite being a relatively overly simple game in comparison to modern great action adventure games.
    BFA is completely different than Classic.
    OSRS - This keeps coming up. Why are you guys who bring this up not acknowledging that OSRS isn't as popular as modern RS? Jagex doesn't even try to hide this fact. It's front and center. Whenever it's pointed out, you guys stop responding to the people who point it out.

    Ocarina of Time - This is one of the greatest games ever made--in your opinion (and mine, to be honest). It is not the greatest selling Zelda game. Breath of the Wild is now which is because, as Nintendo put it, adapted many modern aspects of gaming. The previous record holder was Twilight Princess. If we talk about the remasters that have happened to release the old game on modern devices, Ocarina of Time only sold 4 million units which was quite low for a Zelda game (but high for remasters). You actually hurt your own argument by bringing this game up. Nintendo, back when that came out, said they didn't expect record sales because people had already played the game and many people didn't feel the need to replay it. In fact, most rereleases/remasters have historically not sold well because we're not "back then"... we're in 2019. Gaming changes.

    There is one thing I think could really sell Classic WoW and it's not simply re-releasing Classic WoW with #nochanges. If they rebuilt the game entirely from the ground up, new graphics (modern instead of based on old-school like modern WoW is), etc. then it could possibly grab an entirely new player base. However, this would be a massive gamble (like FF VII is going to be). Blizzard would rather play it safe to make a quick buck to possibly fund a new project. Blizzard is also plenty aware that the fad will fade quickly after launch. It's random people in the community that are thinking it won't happen. Blizzard has mentioned in several places over the last week about how they'll handle the decline of players. In fact, player activity on modern WoW could possibly increase if it plays out like Runescape did.

  18. #78
    Scarab Lord Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Long, well-articulated OP, proper separation in paragraphs, careful language (at first), reached 4 pages... Ummmm, I give OP a 9/10, would read again. It could even get a 10/10 if it wasn't because I've seen 46775435667 posts like these over the years, usually from the same 10 ppl claque.
    "The heart of the Horde" = Alliance-approved Horde

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentail View Post
    OSRS - This keeps coming up. Why are you guys who bring this up not acknowledging that OSRS isn't as popular as modern RS? Jagex doesn't even try to hide this fact. It's front and center. Whenever it's pointed out, you guys stop responding to the people who point it out.
    Here's some data pointing otherwise. Furthermore, does it matters which version is more popular? So long as Classic is popular enough to be worth it for Blizzard is enough to warrant Classic was worth it. Same applies to Modern WoW. OP is not really arguing about popularity either, he's arguing that BFA is the superior version.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zentail View Post
    Ocarina of Time - This is one of the greatest games ever made--in your opinion (and mine, to be honest). It is not the greatest selling Zelda game. Breath of the Wild is now which is because, as Nintendo put it, adapted many modern aspects of gaming. The previous record holder was Twilight Princess. If we talk about the remasters that have happened to release the old game on modern devices, Ocarina of Time only sold 4 million units which was quite low for a Zelda game (but high for remasters). You actually hurt your own argument by bringing this game up. Nintendo, back when that came out, said they didn't expect record sales because people had already played the game and many people didn't feel the need to replay it. In fact, most rereleases/remasters have historically not sold well because we're not "back then"... we're in 2019. Gaming changes.
    Are you actually comparing sale numbers from 1998 and 2017?

    Ocarina of Time sold 2 million copies during the first 39 days it was available in 1998, and became the best-selling game of that year.
    More info.

    EDIT: I actually managed to find out this article which talks about BotW selling close to a million units in its first 28 days, plus sales from the Wii-U bringing it up to about 1.3M. So I guess there goes your point about sales, in comparison to OoT's first month.

    Regarding the opinion point you brought up, besides the fact that we can literally say the same about any game, including this whole discussion to that end, is it really an opinion at this point? After all, it's a very, very, widely critically acclaimed game, with borderline perfect scores across the most popular game critics. So how's that for an opinion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zentail View Post
    There is one thing I think could really sell Classic WoW and it's not simply re-releasing Classic WoW with #nochanges. If they rebuilt the game entirely from the ground up, new graphics (modern instead of based on old-school like modern WoW is), etc. then it could possibly grab an entirely new player base. However, this would be a massive gamble (like FF VII is going to be). Blizzard would rather play it safe to make a quick buck to possibly fund a new project. Blizzard is also plenty aware that the fad will fade quickly after launch. It's random people in the community that are thinking it won't happen. Blizzard has mentioned in several places over the last week about how they'll handle the decline of players. In fact, player activity on modern WoW could possibly increase if it plays out like Runescape did.
    This is complete and blatant speculation, especially the part where you mention Blizzard and their supposed plans about Classic. Are you even basing this paragraph on something other than your own intuition? Finally, it seems to me that you'd rather have a remake of WoW instead of a remaster? A remaster is usually just upgraded visuals and overall the same game with a better engine, a remake is built from pretty much scratch (FF7 Remake).
    Last edited by Razzako; 2019-05-17 at 08:37 PM.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentail View Post
    You have 2 things wrong right now.

    1. RS is a different type of game that appeals more to the WoW Classic player than a modern player. Not to mention Classic RS.

    2. RS has more players than Classic RS. It's consistently been this way forever. Modern RS always maintains roughly 30% more players than Classic RS. Jagex doesn't even try to hide this fact either. It's advertised right on their website. 100,000 people online. Classic has about 80,000 people online. Yes, these number will fluctuate, but only sometimes does Classic actually surpass Modern and it's not for long when it does. Consider that most of the OSRS player base is all that's left that even plays the RS at all anymore and yet they're still surpassed by modern stuff.

    Overall, what will probably happen is the same thing that happened to RS but with higher player counts.

    1. Classic launches. A massive onslaught of people play Classic. Old and new players all hop on to experience it.
    2. Classic is a few months old. Nearly all players that didn't play Classic in the first place are back to modern WoW/other games.
    3. Classic is half a year old. A lot of the players who wanted Classic realize that it is, in fact, an old game, and stop playing.
    4. Classic is a year old and most players realize they've become bored.

    Classic is left with a small player base. This is how it happens to RS. This is how it happens to all nostalgic things. Classic is an attempt to save WoW in what Blizzard possibly sees as being close to end-of-life. It will bring many players back, but it won't save the game and the majority of players will be temporary. Blizzard will make a massive dollar day 1, but will see an incredibly massive dropoff by just a couple short quarters later. This is what nostalgia does to people. It's hilarious to me that people think Classic WoW is going to be some magical exception to a rule that has always ruled over Nostalgia. It's not that I don't want them to be an exception, but I'm not going to lie to myself about the situation. I highly suspect Blizzard is 100% aware of everything in this post already too. They will probably use the immediate, but not steady, funds that Classic will bring to fund a new project.
    If you are trying to argue RuneScape 3 vs OSRS, this argument is objectively and blatantly false. OSRS is significantly more popular than RS3 as shown here: http://www.misplaceditems.com/rs_tools/graph/

    If you are talking about Classic RuneScape, the server was shut down almost a year ago.
    Insert cringe politically charged signature here

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