Classic WoW will be a lesson in nostaligia vs reality

[Vorkreist]

If your whole raid does not outgear the content in LFR, the raid is harder than any raid in Vanilla, BC or wotlk. Period

For realz? So LFR aka 70% are afk or naked or too retarded to outdps the tank and still 1 shot is harder than vanilla/bc/wotlk raids?
Did you start playing in Panda or Wod?

[Specialka]

Vanilla was harder because of inconvenience. Classes lacked utility which made the game in turn harder. The mechanics mostly weren't but also no DBM, now the mechanics are harder but you have DBM or BW to hold your hand through the encounter.

Hum, I think you got it wrong. Vanilla was not harder, it was tedious. Raid boss has barely mecanics if they were not punching ball if you compare them to a current dungeon boss.

And Wow devs creates encounter knowing that ppl will use DBM, hence more mecanics today and harder content.

[ManiaCCC]

So your experience is general now?

If your whole raid does not outgear the content in LFR, the raid is harder than any raid in Vanilla, BC or wotlk. Period

And mm raiding is miles and miles harder than Vanilla raid. Same goes for Dungeon mm+ or not.

If you would wear all white items, i guess it could be hard, but that's the thing, gearing in retail is just absurdly easy. It's matter of days and you don't need to step into "difficult" content - not once. In retail, there is no content, which is "difficult" - unless you believe Mythic is new content.

[Specialka]

For realz? So LFR aka 70% are afk or naked or too retarded to outdps the tank and still 1 shot is harder than vanilla/bc/wotlk raids?
Did you start playing in Panda or Wod?

I did clean MC/Bwl at the time. Did some BT too at BC and clean every raid in Wotlk. And you know which encounter ppl hated the most? The first boss of ulduar because you could not get carried by your gear, simply because most ppl sucks.

[Drusin]

Played the stress test the other day, as a person that wants to play classic already it was more fun than I thought it was going to be.

MFW there's still people saying "you think you do but you don't"

[Specialka]

If you would wear all white items, i guess it could be hard, but that's the thing, gearing in retail is just absurdly easy. It's matter of days and you don't need to step into "difficult" content - not once. In retail, there is no content, which is "difficult" - unless you believe Mythic is new content.

So when you play a solo game, you pick the easy difficulty, clear it and say you beat the game? Ok lol, buddy, won't waste more of my time with you.

[ManiaCCC]

The only thing "modern" WoW is guilty of is having more options. Raiding is a lot harder now but the fact that people raid LFR and compare it to real raiding just says a lot. It's essentially a tourist mode that exists for people with severe brain damage who can't push 2 buttons right. If you're comparing the easiest raid mode out of FOUR difficulties with the only one that existed back in the day then you're just making yourself look silly, I'm sorry.

Don't kid yourself, modern wow is guilty of many things. And while I know many people believe that "options are always good", I see it differently. It's not just LFR what is making modern wow trivial, it's gearing process as a whole.

- - - Updated - - -

So when you play a solo game, you pick the easy difficulty, clear it and say you beat the game? Ok lol, buddy, won't waste more of my time with you.

Boy, you really have hard time to understand, what I am saying.

[Specialka]

Or you have a hard time to clearly say what you mean. Nonetheless, new difficulty is new content, even if you do not like it.

[voidillusion]

Or you have a hard time to clearly say what you mean. Nonetheless, new difficulty is new content, even if you do not like it.

New dificulty is new content... no wonder the game reached it's current state...

[Stricks]

But that is simply not true. The game is payed for by the same subscription and as it still has not made any money (as it's not released yet) it's obviously using resources from retail.

It also would matter as the project would be put on hold once the subs dropped enough.

Okay, I was pretty sure this was obvious, but the idea with Classic is to get players to RETURN that are not currently playing WoW. Then you have retail sitting right there to click on when you get bored with Classic and voila you've just gained retail players.

Now it's up to retail to be good enough to hold those currently unsubscribed veterans so that a whole other problem.

[ManiaCCC]

Or you have a hard time to clearly say what you mean. Nonetheless, new difficulty is new content, even if you do not like it.

What I am saying in retail wow there is no content, which is difficult, because everything is set to very easy mode (in case of raids, it's LFR). You just have choice to run dungeons and raids on harder difficulty. In vanilla, there was just hard content - dungeons, raids, some quests - which you needed to progress through the game - to get gear, crafting material or reputation or just unlock dungeons/raids. It felt like MMORPG.

Yes, you can run Mythic+ dungeons and raids you already finished to "challenge yourself", but that's about it.

[Specialka]

But nothing in vanilla was hard. Just tedious.

And running a mm raid is not the same as doing it in Lfr or normal, aka new content.

[Zantera]

Don't kid yourself, modern wow is guilty of many things. And while I know many people believe that "options are always good", I see it differently. It's not just LFR what is making modern wow trivial, it's gearing process as a whole.

You seem slightly out of touch because as a serious player looking to do the challenging content, LFR currently is absolutely pointless. It exists as a feature but it has no value or use for anyone who wants to play the game seriously. It reminds me of people complaining about pet battles, which is another feature that you could level from 1 to 120 and completely be unaware of because it's a side thing. In terms of gearing LFR is so far down the list of what will get you gear that it's not even worth doing on a fresh alt.

I don't really have a strong opinion on the topic though. LFR could be removed or could be kept, as someone who plays the game seriously it honestly doesn't affect me either way. I think the last time i entered a LFR was early Legion for that raid quest to kill a boss and since we've moved past those quests in BFA, LFR no longer serves a purpose for us.

Personally I don't think we really need 4 different raid difficulties but as a "real" raider I only really take part in heroic and mythic (normal first week maybe) so it doesn't bother me that much. Vanilla raiding had 1 difficulty and it was not very challenging. I can see people struggling with mythic raiding now being hyped about classic raiding because it asks very little of you as a player.

[Vorkreist]

I did clean MC/Bwl at the time. Did some BT too at BC and clean every raid in Wotlk. And you know which encounter ppl hated the most? The first boss of ulduar because you could not get carried by your gear, simply because most ppl sucks.

Sorry I can't believe you or take you seriously after saying LFR is harder.
You did some BT? thats all you did in BC? jump suddenly into BT without gear or attunements ?
Wotlk raids where easier than LFR?
People hating the easiest encounter in Ulduar?
Pass me that dank stuff man. I wanna try it too

[WowClassic]

He's obviously trolling by saying LFR is harder. Retail babbies think their best line of attack is to call Classic "easy", they hope this will discourage people from leaving en masse and increasing their queue times.

Sorry, not gonna work. The only thing you could argue is more difficult on retail is Mythic raiding and high end Mythic dungeons, but it's all meaningless anyway when it exists in such a soulless, spiritless game world where prestige is non-existent and content and achievements are made irrelevant within a couple of months. Not only that but Classic has many things to consider that aren't just about mechanics that make the feeling of accomplishment actually greater than content that on a spreadsheet might have more "mechanics".

The greatest thing about Classic I think will be how good it is for casuals. If you are a casual what exactly is the point of doing world quests and LFR to get meaningless random gear that becomes irrelevant within weeks. On Classic you will be able to make a small amount of progress on your character every day, but that progress will actually mean something, and in the long run what you achieve will feel infinitely more rewarding.

[ManiaCCC]

You seem slightly out of touch because as a serious player looking to do the challenging content, LFR currently is absolutely pointless.

This is not the point. I am not playing MMORPGs to "challenge myself".. That's Diablo/Warframe.. I can run some ridiculous level of mission or Greater Rift and try my build in that scenario. And this is where I can get behind multiple difficulties even, I believe they wen little overboard with that.

I was playing MMORPGs for adventure for lack of better words. And friends, community. I liked that world make sense. Running Wailing Caverns as lowbies was interesting but not certainly the hardest thing..you were killing animals and druids there. But when someone killed Nefarian, you knew that took some dedication, time and experience. The fact, that there were just harder content along the way, these elite quests for example, made world interesting (to me) and believable. There were these zones with elite monsters..I loved it. Leveling, while some people call it tedious, was just more challenging and it felt so good to somehow finish some harder quest line - just one of the many things I loved in Vanilla.

I am not hating current wow or people, who enjoy that. I just hate, that wow went in way, it killed almost everything I loved about that game. I know why I loved it. I loved difficulty, which were just present there, not just in some artificially fashion, like turning dungeon run to eleven - again, that's Diablo for me, where I am not immersed into world.

Thankfully, classic is on the way and I know it's just not rose colored glasses for me.

[Castration]

I've been playing WoW since Christmas '04.

are you still playing, because you seemed to have left your thread after being owned many times.

[Zantera]

This is not the point. I am not playing MMORPGs to "challenge myself".. That's Diablo/Warframe.. I can run some ridiculous level of mission or Greater Rift and try my build in that scenario. And this is where I can get behind multiple difficulties even, I believe they wen little overboard with that.

I was playing MMORPGs for adventure for lack of better words. And friends, community. I liked that world make sense. Running Wailing Caverns as lowbies was interesting but not certainly the hardest thing..you were killing animals and druids there. But when someone killed Nefarian, you knew that took some dedication, time and experience. The fact, that there were just harder content along the way, these elite quests for example, made world interesting (to me) and believable. There were these zones with elite monsters..I loved it. Leveling, while some people call it tedious, was just more challenging and it felt so good to somehow finish some harder quest line - just one of the many things I loved in Vanilla.

I am not hating current wow or people, who enjoy that. I just hate, that wow went in way, it killed almost everything I loved about that game. I know why I loved it. I loved difficulty, which were just present there, not just in some artificially fashion, like turning dungeon run to eleven - again, that's Diablo for me, where I am not immersed into world.

Thankfully, classic is on the way and I know it's just not rose colored glasses for me.

I get what you're saying, I mean I've been there since the early days myself. But how is someone killing Nefarian much different from someone killing Jaina mythic for example? Yeah it's different difficulties but ultimately it's proof of someone being among the top% of players and achieving something spectacular. I get what you're saying about the open world though and I agree on some points. I also liked that some enemies were a lot harder and you might need a group, though the drop rates on many quests made it absolutely tedious to level through more than once.

For some people m+ isn't their thing, for me I really like it as a system to really measure your own skill and see how high you can go. What was frustrating with 5-man content back in the day was that it wasn't really that challenging and once you overcame the obstacle (usually with gear) you could never go higher than that.

[Elias01]

I get what you're saying, I mean I've been there since the early days myself. But how is someone killing Nefarian much different from someone killing Jaina mythic for example? Yeah it's different difficulties but ultimately it's proof of someone being among the top% of players and achieving something spectacular. I get what you're saying about the open world though and I agree on some points. I also liked that some enemies were a lot harder and you might need a group, though the drop rates on many quests made it absolutely tedious to level through more than once.

For some people m+ isn't their thing, for me I really like it as a system to really measure your own skill and see how high you can go. What was frustrating with 5-man content back in the day was that it wasn't really that challenging and once you overcame the obstacle (usually with gear) you could never go higher than that.

Thats exactly the point. Difficulty levels are not appealing. Presence of easy mods alredy impacts players behavior towards game. It doesnt matter if they do it or not. Fact that option is in game affect how you think about game. I complelty lost any interest for raiding when LFR came out. It just seemd pointless. 2 difficulty levels was something i was ok with even i didnt like it. Then they added more and more and more and no thats not mmorpg anymore.

[Dominikas]

Thats exactly the point. Difficulty levels are not appealing. Presence of easy mods alredy impacts players behavior towards game. It doesnt matter if they do it or not. Fact that option is in game affect how you think about game. I complelty lost any interest for raiding when LFR came out. It just seemd pointless. 2 difficulty levels was something i was ok with even i didnt like it. Then they added more and more and more and no thats not mmorpg anymore.

If you lost interest in raiding just because LFR came out, I doubt you ever did any high end content anyways.

Regardless, it's a fact that LFR making it seem pointless to you is a deluded viewpoint. The content would've already been pointless anyways, LFR doesn't change that in any significant way.

Either 2 difficulty modes existing ruined raiding for you, or a lack of meaningful rewards for higher end content did. In neither of those situations is LFR the defining reason. It simply can't be.