It was a “really hard sell” at Blizzard to get Night Elves into Warcraft

[Syegfryed]

true and very little of that got used well in WoW.

more because they could not be playable, like the ones with the horde and alliance

stone giant playable is out of question, dryads with four legs too, i could see some sort of humanoid tree creature like botani, but they never explored that

the game would be way better if they made the sentinels or the forsaken as a faction on their own.

[Eurhetemec]

I think both forsaken and night elf role would be much more interesting (and in result the WoW lore would be more interesting) if they would have never become a playable race.

No.

Then WoW would be far more generic fantasy and far less interesting.

The Night Elves would have become generic Dark Elves with a side of Wood Elf, and we'd be raiding their raids, and plundering their dungeons. The Nightborne would likely have been bad guys too, and we'd basically have seen those two groups and the Naga (and the Satyrs) as the same generic "mostly evil" elves. Teldrassil would have been a raid or two like AQ (I know someone is desperately jacking off to this idea but it wouldn't have been much fun).

The Forsaken would be completely generic undead being slaughtered by the boatload, and would never have become developed as individuals with thoughts and so on (which wasn't really much of a "thing" in WC3 - it's not until WoW that it happened, and it wouldn't have happened if they weren't playable). Sylvanas would have been a raid boss, probably in Vanilla, likely associated with Naxx (or instead of Naxx).

The Horde would have thus been a one-note collection of "Barbarian-type races". The Alliance would have been a one-note collection of "Civilized races". I mean, fuck me, you're condemning us to a future where the core Alliance races were Human, Dwarves and GNOMES for god's sake. The counter-notes of the Forsaken and Night Elves not being present would have made things vastly more boring and simplistic. It would also have meant that it was harder to add races which didn't fit the existing theme to each side.

- - - Updated - - -

Original concept art of them had females with sharp fangs and blood running down their mouths.

Fuck me, you don't even actually play WoW, do you? THEY HAVE FUCKING SHARP FANGS. That was one of the first things I noticed when I played WoW in 2004 (on males where they're more prominent, admittedly, someone with Classic beta can hope get a screenshot showing whether females do - pretty sure they do).

https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...-Model?page=17

Fuck's sake, right here on MMO Champion "Fangs confirmed".

WoW Night Elves are just punching bags/literal sexdoll cutie boobie girl sluts.

More evidence that you've never played WoW. You seem to be confusing it with TERA or some shit.

[PelinalWhitestrake]

No.

Then WoW would be far more generic fantasy and far less interesting.

The Night Elves would have become generic Dark Elves with a side of Wood Elf, and we'd be raiding their raids, and plundering their dungeons. The Nightborne would likely have been bad guys too, and we'd basically have seen those two groups and the Naga (and the Satyrs) as the same generic "mostly evil" elves. Teldrassil would have been a raid or two like AQ (I know someone is desperately jacking off to this idea but it wouldn't have been much fun).

The Forsaken would be completely generic undead being slaughtered by the boatload, and would never have become developed as individuals with thoughts and so on (which wasn't really much of a "thing" in WC3 - it's not until WoW that it happened, and it wouldn't have happened if they weren't playable). Sylvanas would have been a raid boss, probably in Vanilla, likely associated with Naxx (or instead of Naxx).

The Horde would have thus been a one-note collection of "Barbarian-type races". The Alliance would have been a one-note collection of "Civilized races". I mean, fuck me, you're condemning us to a future where the core Alliance races were Human, Dwarves and GNOMES for god's sake. The counter-notes of the Forsaken and Night Elves not being present would have made things vastly more boring and simplistic. It would also have meant that it was harder to add races which didn't fit the existing theme to each side.

- - - Updated - - -



Fuck me, you don't even actually play WoW, do you? THEY HAVE FUCKING SHARP FANGS. That was one of the first things I noticed when I played WoW in 2004 (on males where they're more prominent, admittedly, someone with Classic beta can hope get a screenshot showing whether females do - pretty sure they do).

https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...-Model?page=17

Fuck's sake, right here on MMO Champion "Fangs confirmed".



More evidence that you've never played WoW. You seem to be confusing it with TERA or some shit.

Night Elves are up there with the Bosmer Wood Elves from The Elder Scrolls as Honorary Punch bags of the company.
Though the last one has a Lore reason for why.

[Plehnard]

"The night elves are Blizzard's spin on the classically evil race, the dark elves. In the D&D realm dark elves are traditionally very tough - they have dark skin, white hair, and live unterground- Blizzard worked with this archetype to turn it around into a 'good' race that lives above the ground and works with the natural elements of the world to achieve their ends. The night elves are a race of healthy, elemental, natural creatures that stand (on average) seven feet tall. Heir violet-hued skin, and auburn, green-blue hair complement each other well"
That's word for word out of the Warcraft3 art book. So they thought of Drow at first and then turned them more in the wood elves direction. Also the Artwork of the Females there:


But that's all spilled milk now with the more and more bastardized version of them we have in wow. Only funny thing is that they made their Drow-roots in development dark trolls in lore (living in caves)

[PelinalWhitestrake]

"The night elves are Blizzard's spin on the classically evil race, the dark elves. In the D&D realm dark elves are traditionally very tough - they have dark skin, white hair, and live unterground- Blizzard worked with this archetype to turn it around into a 'good' race that lives above the ground and works with the natural elements of the world to achieve their ends. The night elves are a race of healthy, elemental, natural creatures that stand (on average) seven feet tall. Heir violet-hued skin, and auburn, green-blue hair complement each other well"
That's word for word out of the Warcraft3 art book. So they thought of Drow at first and then turned them more in the wood elves direction. Also the Artwork of the Females there:


But that's all spilled milk now with the more and more bastardized version of them we have in wow. Only funny thing is that they made their Drow-roots in development dark trolls in lore (living in caves)

There are times i wish that Nelves went the bosmer way, but nowadays people would bitch about Cannibalism.

[Eggroll]

Living on a tree wasn't a thing till until world of warcraft, and it was a part of the problem.

The nelves are not the problem. The edgelord writers who cannot fathom a matriarchalic society without feeling their feeble egos questioned are.

Sylvanas is just their necrophilia sexdoll. And she's banging Danuser's self insert. Oh, what a stronk woman. So she has to get a special story.

[wanax]

There are times i wish that Nelves went the bosmer way, but nowadays people would bitch about Cannibalism.

The fact the men spoke telepathically through the women would have had sjws stomping their feet because the women were tools. Even though the women were more the STRONG military arm of the night elves and the men were the religious side.

- - - Updated - - -

The nelves are not the problem. The edgelord writers who cannot fathom a matriarchalic society without feeling their feeble egos questioned are.

Sylvanas is just their necrophilia sexdoll. And she's banging Danuser's self insert. Oh, what a stronk woman. So she has to get a special story.

The writing has gotten “edgy” and Sylvanas doesn’t even have a purpose anymore. When I started I remember her being bitchy or snooty but after learning her history I understood it. Now she has become worse than what she hated most(lich king) and does what she broke free from(enslavement). She’s enslaving the horde and alliance alike by giving them the “gift” of undeath. I’ll be glad when she and the boot licker are gone.

[therealstegblob]

Fuck me, you don't even actually play WoW, do you? THEY HAVE FUCKING SHARP FANGS.

Holy fucking shit calm down you fucking spazz lol.

I know they have the little sharp fangs, but in an early concept sketch (Which I can't seem to find right now) they had visibly prominent sharp teeth, not just two little fangs. I'm not talking about a couple of sharp teeth, I'm talking about how dirty and savage and bloody their super original concept art was.

More evidence that you've never played WoW. You seem to be confusing it with TERA or some shit.

Hard to be such an unashamed defensive angry Night Elf fanboy in 2019, but god bless you, you're still trying your best.

Infracted.

[Moonrage]

"The night elves are Blizzard's spin on the classically evil race, the dark elves. In the D&D realm dark elves are traditionally very tough - they have dark skin, white hair, and live unterground- Blizzard worked with this archetype to turn it around into a 'good' race that lives above the ground and works with the natural elements of the world to achieve their ends. The night elves are a race of healthy, elemental, natural creatures that stand (on average) seven feet tall. Heir violet-hued skin, and auburn, green-blue hair complement each other well"
That's word for word out of the Warcraft3 art book. So they thought of Drow at first and then turned them more in the wood elves direction. Also the Artwork of the Females there:


But that's all spilled milk now with the more and more bastardized version of them we have in wow. Only funny thing is that they made their Drow-roots in development dark trolls in lore (living in caves)

Where is the first image from? I loooooove it. She's everything I imagine a female Night Elf to be like; I wish we could have more customization options with leaves in the hair or a more pissed of/angry face.

[Hellspawn]

Where is the first image from? I loooooove it. She's everything I imagine a female Night Elf to be like; I wish we could have more customization options with leaves in the hair or a more pissed of/angry face.

Its from the warcraft 3 artbook

[Eurhetemec]

Where is the first image from? I loooooove it. She's everything I imagine a female Night Elf to be like; I wish we could have more customization options with leaves in the hair or a more pissed of/angry face.

Yeah there are two things which disappoint me about NEs - that bounce (jesus, really?) and the lack of cool hairstyles, especially one that reflect the hair that they frequently have in art. I can see how it was perhaps not viable in 2004. But it's 2019.

[Plehnard]

Where is the first image from? I loooooove it. She's everything I imagine a female Night Elf to be like; I wish we could have more customization options with leaves in the hair or a more pissed of/angry face.

http://www.phillip-lehnard.de/3dPict...ft3Artbook.jpg <- that's the full picture. Sadly I haven't found any good digital versions of it.

[Hellspawn]

http://www.phillip-lehnard.de/3dPict...ft3Artbook.jpg <- that's the full picture. Sadly I haven't found any good digital versions of it.

Thanks for posting, finally found my team!

[Powerogue]

"And then we made them purple for some reason.”

The angry scowl didn't help.

I'll have you know the constant resting bitch face is my favorite part of my night elf.

[eurojust]

http://www.phillip-lehnard.de/3dPict...ft3Artbook.jpg <- that's the full picture. Sadly I haven't found any good digital versions of it.

If you have more pictures of that book, please feel free to share it !

[ravenmoon]

No.

Then WoW would be far more generic fantasy and far less interesting.

The Night Elves would have become generic Dark Elves with a side of Wood Elf, and we'd be raiding their raids, and plundering their dungeons. The Nightborne would likely have been bad guys too, and we'd basically have seen those two groups and the Naga (and the Satyrs) as the same generic "mostly evil" elves. Teldrassil would have been a raid or two like AQ (I know someone is desperately jacking off to this idea but it wouldn't have been much fun).

The Forsaken would be completely generic undead being slaughtered by the boatload, and would never have become developed as individuals with thoughts and so on (which wasn't really much of a "thing" in WC3 - it's not until WoW that it happened, and it wouldn't have happened if they weren't playable). Sylvanas would have been a raid boss, probably in Vanilla, likely associated with Naxx (or instead of Naxx).

The Horde would have thus been a one-note collection of "Barbarian-type races". The Alliance would have been a one-note collection of "Civilized races". I mean, fuck me, you're condemning us to a future where the core Alliance races were Human, Dwarves and GNOMES for god's sake. The counter-notes of the Forsaken and Night Elves not being present would have made things vastly more boring and simplistic. It would also have meant that it was harder to add races which didn't fit the existing theme to each side.

I think she meant more by the factr that by being playable, they are far less awesome because blizzard seem to nerf them to make all playable races roughly equal , rather than keep the original traits that made them special.

This was further compounded by being on the alliance which was intentionally kept a human thing, marginalising them, then at the same time boosting the horde that needed a lot more work at the time, the end result was nerfed, neglected and marginalised night elves, showing up with none of the original awesome things we were introduced to about them- and having much of the starry lore , priestess lore, and arcane culture largely ignored - it's a wonder we got druidic culture, but even then, it is superficial at best.


I think that is what she meant.


As for what you said, I agree, when they released night elves - warcrafts version of dark elves, I immediately fell in love with them because they weren't evil..breaking the dark elf evil mould.. I loved that they were outdoors - under starlight/moonlight was quite unique - and the children of the stars with a high arcane fantasy of the pre-sundering era, and thehigh nature fantasy of the long vigil - relaly felt like quite the unique combination of magic (arcane) wielding and forest wielding (nature) evles. I was sold.

Little did I know development after WC3 and WotA trilogy would be so slow and poor - they'd remove their unique features like immortality, the Well of Eternity and world tree, played little to no role, the priestess order I expected to get serioius depth and expansion never got it, the arcane rebuilding I expected to return now the legion had come back giving the night elves a chance to bring the best of both the pre-sundering era nd the long vigil era - as a big revival - also never came.

what we got was just not enough, highborne that just failed to capture what was said of the night leves pre-arcane era, sentinels in catacluysm, that justcame off like damsels in distress, and druids that seemed to have none of the magical awesome power they had in WC3 fighyting for htem No well of eternity of the greater former age either.. iwas like wtf.

When legion came, I felt much better, valsharah was how ashenvale should have been, the nighborne were how the shen'dralar should have been, and the farondis expanded the pre-sudundering loreto show us arcane groups who weren't corrupt or addicted. that was also good. Fruthermore, finaly demon hunters were vindicated, originally in owota and wc3, illidan was not a villain, an anti0hero, yes, but not a villain, butchered by making hima raid boss in TBC, but they did bring back, however it was un-necessary circle, they shouldn't have had him there,. Howeveer it did him some justice.

but the end of legion was also very disappointing from a night elf perspective, no night elf or nightborne played any role nin 7.2 broken shore nor in argus, which was incredulous, they just phased out, the nightborne were made to join the horde, instead of at least have some side with thekaldorei and aid in the restoration or buffing of the kaldorei with its majestic dark elf bits and nature bits coming together, but no theyun--necessarily gave them all to the horde, and finallyall the impacts and the identity changing, destiny restoing things the legion's defeat and all their revelations acutally meant for the nigh elves were never explored -- things that should have brought tehem into a new era, and acutally helaed and mended the relation ships between their arcane, priestly, druidic and fel branches, even the new Ravencrest undead - should have lead to a powerful united night elves that would start employing their power to restore their civilization and lead the world by example as well as be a frontier against new world threats.

what did we get?
A second genocide (as if the first wasn't enough) , and then a consolation warfront, night elves omitted out of the encounter with Queen Azshara in the area of their origin steeped in lore - and i'm like wow. way to treat your fans and ignore your own lore. Great blizz

[Eurhetemec]

I think she meant more by the factr that by being playable, they are far less awesome because blizzard seem to nerf them to make all playable races roughly equal , rather than keep the original traits that made them special.

I can't see anything in her post which remotely supports this interpretation, so unless she says so, I'm going to dismiss that. I'm also not really sure what you're referring to re: "nerf them". It seems particularly wrong re: Forsaken who weren't even a "race" in WC3, literally just ravening zombies.

This was further compounded by being on the alliance which was intentionally kept a human thing, marginalising them, then at the same time boosting the horde that needed a lot more work at the time, the end result was nerfed, neglected and marginalised night elves, showing up with none of the original awesome things we were introduced to about them- and having much of the starry lore , priestess lore, and arcane culture largely ignored - it's a wonder we got druidic culture, but even then, it is superficial at best.

How do the Forsaken fit into that? That's literally half the argument. I still don't see how they're "nerfed". Immortality is an irrelevance. It has no bearing on gameplay so there's literally no way that was changed for the sake of making things more "even" (plus NEs still live hundreds of years, no?). But that's the only thing you've mentioned.

I don't really feel like the Night Elves got particularly shafted.

A second genocide (as if the first wasn't enough) , and then a consolation warfront, night elves omitted out of the encounter with Queen Azshara in the area of their origin steeped in lore - and i'm like wow. way to treat your fans and ignore your own lore. Great blizz

Dude. I like Night Elves a lot. I was recently called a "Night Elf fanboy", but you whole rant here just seem like you're on a whole other level of ultra-extreme fanboying to me. You basically want the entire game to revolve around the NEs. I get that if you're extreme fan you might want that. But extreme fans should also try to learn to be reasonable - because that was never going to happen. And if they'd been NPCs, then they'd have had a far SMALLER part in the stories of WoW, not a bigger one. There's just no possibility that they'd have had a bigger one. They'd probably be relegated to raids and dungeons - perhaps instead of some of the "Troll Raids", we'd have "Night Elf Raids".

EDIT - Bear in mind, I never liked Teldrassil. People act like it's this ancient tree where the NEs always lived and shit, but motherfuckers turbo-grew that bitch in like 20 years, presumably moved all the stone that made up the city there from the mainland on barges, and built an ancient-looking city that was actually totally fake and less than 20 years old (or so) when WoW started. So when it burned I was not unhappy to see it go. I also don't buy this crap about "genocide". Fucking HIROSHIMA killed less than 33% of the population of Hiroshima. Terrifying firestorms that destroyed entire cities typically in history have killed less than 25% of the population of those cities. Because if humans (and presumably NEs) are good at one thing, it's RUNNING THE FUCK AWAY FROM FIRE. I mean London burned down in 1666, and guess how many people died? SIX. But even all-wood cities with much denser populations which had actual FIRESTORMS lost less than 25%, as I said.

So there's no way more than 1/3rd of the NEs on Teldrassil died, frankly, not with natural humanoid fear of fire and wizards porting people out and so on (which we know was happening). And what proportion of NEs lived on Teldrassil? 10%? 20%? I wouldn't believe much higher than that. So what, 8% of the NE population died, tops? Something like that. Sucks, but all the "OMG GENOCIDE!!!!" shit needs to, no joke intended, DIAF. Pretty sure more than 8% of the population of various races had died in other incidents.

Also note this is supported by the fact that NPCs act as if a large, horrifying massacre of civilians happened, not but do not act as if it was full-on genocide. That's all head-canon nonsense.

[ravenmoon]

Dude. I like Night Elves a lot. I was recently called a "Night Elf fanboy", but you whole rant here just seem like you're on a whole other level of ultra-extreme fanboying to me. You basically want the entire game to revolve around the NEs.

I like night elves, and having to wiat 14 years to see them play a major role since their wc3 introduction - you bet i'm gonna be pissed when they're not written up to that.

- - - Updated - - -

So there's no way more than 1/3rd of the NEs on Teldrassil died, frankly, not with natural humanoid fear of fire and wizards porting people out and so on (which we know was happening). And what proportion of NEs lived on Teldrassil? 10%? 20%? I wouldn't believe much higher than that. So what, 8% of the NE population died, tops? Something like that. Sucks, but all the "OMG GENOCIDE!!!!" shit needs to, no joke intended, DIAF. Pretty sure more than 8% of the population of various races had died in other incidents.

Also note this is supported by the fact that NPCs act as if a large, horrifying massacre of civilians happened, not but do not act as if it was full-on genocide. That's all head-canon nonsense.

Right, well the reason people say it is a genocide, is because we were told it was. That is what it was intended to be. So if they tell us it is, that is what it is. I'm not sure how you can reach an alternative conclusion when 2 books and pre-expansion event are a war that march through the heaviest populated night elf zones and systemtcailly wipe everything out - you are shown and told civilians are evacuated to darkshore, then teldrassil, and it is burnt with most of the people losing their lives and told there are hardly any night elevs left in the world.

It is what it is.

[Eurhetemec]

Right, well the reason people say it is a genocide, is because we were told it was.

Exactly who said what here? I need the actual quote before I believe it. I am willing to accept that there is one, but Googling is just finding a lot of crying and some weird fanfiction.

[Plehnard]

Exactly who said what here? I need the actual quote before I believe it. I am willing to accept that there is one, but Googling is just finding a lot of crying and some weird fanfiction.

That was in the War of thorns novel. It was hard cover in the collectors edition and later released as a pdf by Blizzard.

If you have more pictures of that book, please feel free to share it !

I could copy the book but I don't know what Blizzard will think when I put up one of their art books into the net (even thou you can't buy it any more). So if I find the time there might be a PM for it and not an openly visible link.