Five more states sue OxyContin maker Purdue Pharma for opioid epidemic

[MikeBogina]

Just had surgery monday and was told I had a prescription to pick up. Thought it was anti-biotics, but nope... oxys :/

[Zan15]

No, because they aren't the ones giving it out to people. Blame the doctors.

they are required to monitor the usage and report suspicious activity, instead they ignored it even with a town of 12000 people giving out millions of pills a month

[Najnaj]

No, because they aren't the ones giving it out to people. Blame the doctors.

We are blaming the doctors.... and the makers of the medicine who outright lied about how addictive it was and even tried to redefine addiction to sell more pills. If you do not think they are to blame you do not know the story.

[Kasierith]

No, because they aren't the ones giving it out to people. Blame the doctors.

When a drug rep flat out lies about the results of studies to get a doctor to prefer a particular treatment, they are to blame. This is the primary vector with which drug companies are interfering with actual patient care. When doctors are being fed lies like, say, hycodan (vicodin specialized into a cough syrup) is a good treatment for the common cold, and they do that to enough people, they're going to get some bites. And people who should never have been treated with medication meant for if you're basically coughing to the point where blood starts spraying out will get it for the yearly sniffles.

[Varitok]

No, because they aren't the ones giving it out to people. Blame the doctors.

Thats like arresting the street corner dealers instead of the producers. They lie about it's effects, flood small towns with millions of pills and get doctors to prescribe them via bribery or just deception. Stop defending corporations who are murdering people with their products.

That reasoning alone is why the US is fucked beyond repair.

[Vash The Stampede]

As much as we wanna blame Purdue and Doctors for this epidemic, the real underlying issue is that Americans are over worked and underpaid. Their rent is going up and their pay isn't. This causes stress that won't go away and people turn to Opioids. The economy is in a real shit storm for the main street and the media spins this against against Big Pharma, which they should cause they're taking advantage of people but there's a bigger issue that people are ignoring and that is the economy for the main-street is shit right now.

Also, shutting down OxyContin will just reemerge again as another name as it has been done in the past. We should just regulate these substances to limit how long a patient is allowed to be on them. People will always make excuses to get their hands on these drugs, and it's usually back pain.

[Kasierith]

Sorry, but the manufacturer is responsible for tracking this stuff in addition to the distributor. And we know they do because they’re the ones who gave doctors free vacations and shit for how good they were at selling the heroin they were making false claims about.

You are very clearly conflating two separate, albeit both horrible, issues. And you're doing this because you don't have a comprehensive grasp of how the process works, and want to push the argument with more moral outrage. The are multiple failings across the entire industry that have led to the opioid epidemic. Everyone is at fault. Government, drug companies, pharmacies, doctors, distribution companies, the news, community leaders, insurance companies. But no single party is at fault for every issue that contributed to the epidemic. And the scenario you're discussing, pill mills. is in terms of responsibility pharmacist=doctor>distribution company>DEA>drug company>everyone else.

[PACOX]

@PACOX on a few of your other points. This isn't nothing but a bandaid. It's how you set precedent and sue all the manufacturers who had shady business practices. Which then, hopefully, leads to meaningful regulation being created that helps prevent this kind of thing from happening in the future.

Its a bandaid because the company is only part of the problem. The FDA has to approve the medication, that's after they know full well how addictive the medications are. Doctors have to be versed on the pro, con, interactions, and side effects. The doctor or pharmacy should be advising the patient how to properly take the medication.

There's gross negligence happening on multiple levels. Drugs like oxytocin aren't bad on their own, they actually help a lot of people in chronic pain, the problem is with people being over prescribed, doctors taking kickbacks, manufacturers offering kick backs, the FDA doing all type of fucked up shit.

Without actual reform nothing changes. It's definitely not going to help the addicts.

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Thats like arresting the street corner dealers instead of the producers. They lie about it's effects, flood small towns with millions of pills and get doctors to prescribe them via bribery or just deception. Stop defending corporations who are murdering people with their products.

That reasoning alone is why the US is fucked beyond repair.

But we do go after street dealers, and hard. Hell how many are federal for some weed? Street dealers are held responsible for their product if it was laced by their source without their knowledge.

Doctors have a lot more info about what they are pushing and supposed to be held to a higher standard. How come we don't meet bad doctors with the same energy as a street dealer?

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Just had surgery monday and was told I had a prescription to pick up. Thought it was anti-biotics, but nope... oxys :/

I had an OP not too long ago. 30 percs with the option to refill at my follow up. They actually looked at me funny when I said I wasn't taking them and didn't want anymore. They only cost me $2 l and couldn't do anything for my pain that ibuprofen can't. I didn't take them. If I wanted to be grimey I be part of the problem and make $10 a pill easily.

[Khelek]

You are damned regardless. The greater access to narcotic pain killers has caused some to turn to heroine and other stronger substances or even to overdose on pills from a pharmacy, but the new regulations enacted by several states have lead to people genuinely in need of the medications to be cut off by their doctors who are in fear of retribution from people like those suing Purdue Pharma. Ironically many of the patients who rely on these medications are themselves turning to heroine and other substances once they have been denied prescriptions.

There is a delicate balance to be maintained. The pendulum swung to far in one direction leading to over utilization of these medications and now the pendulum is swinging towards under-utilization. Either way people will suffer.

[PACOX]

You are damned regardless. The greater access to narcotic pain killers has caused some to turn to heroine and other stronger substances or even to overdose on pills from a pharmacy, but the new regulations enacted by several states have lead to people genuinely in need of the medications to be cut off by their doctors who are in fear of retribution from people like those suing Purdue Pharma. Ironically many of the patients who rely on these medications are themselves turning to heroine and other substances once they have been denied prescriptions.

There is a delicate balance to be maintained. The pendulum swung to far in one direction leading to over utilization of these medications and now the pendulum is swinging towards under-utilization. Either way people will suffer.

Exactly. Meanwhile marijuana that would a safer alternative between strong opioids and OTCs (that fuck up your liver if you're taking them for chronic pain) is heavily resisted by the Fed.

Pain management in the US that just isn't 'throw some oxy at it' is weak.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Sure if you want to drive up the cost of pain medication all in some bullshit misguided crusade to join unqualified easily influenced people generally being manipulated by bullshit sure.

Controlling pain for most people not having an issue following instructions is very important. And tea leaves and placebo bullshit isn’t going to do it.

A lot of this is drug companies and doctors prescribing. But most of this has to do with people making choice. Also this horse shit idea of going after doctors especially over anyone else is just stupid.

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Exactly. Meanwhile marijuana that would a safer alternative between strong opioids and OTCs (that fuck up your liver if you're taking them for chronic pain) is heavily resisted by the Fed.

Pain management in the US that just isn't 'throw some oxy at it' is weak.

No it hasn’t people just believe this nonsense this nonsense which is at the heart of a lot of this. Like I said very much like anti vaccination bullshit.

People without medical degrees or any qualifications whatsoever other than natural medicine is the only way. Guess what hemlock is also natural and smoking it will kill you.

[PACOX]

Sure if you want to drive up the cost of pain medication all in some bullshit misguided crusade to join unqualified easily influenced people generally being manipulated by bullshit sure.

Controlling pain for most people not having an issue following instructions is very important. And tea leaves and placebo bullshit isn’t going to do it.

A lot of this is drug companies and doctors prescribing. But most of this has to do with people making choice. Also this horse shit idea of going after doctors especially over anyone else is just stupid.

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No it hasn’t people just believe this nonsense this nonsense which is at the heart of a lot of this. Like I said very much like anti vaccination bullshit.

People without medical degrees or any qualifications whatsoever other than natural medicine is the only way. Guess what hemlock is also natural and smoking it will kill you.

I'm not sure what you mean. That weed isn't a analgesic or that pain management hasn't fallen to the wayside?

[Kasierith]

I'm not sure what you mean. That weed isn't a analgesic or that pain management hasn't fallen to the wayside?

From a pharmacists perspective, the problem with the claims about weed and pain is that it is essentially based on small case studies and self reporting, as opposed to the massive population scale studies that FDA approved medications undergo. Admittedly, that is largely because there is a disproportionate amount of resistance to allowing such studies to take place, in terms of legality and funding.

That said.. it's something with minimal side effects and possible benefit. So in exact medical terms, why the hell not at the very least it won't make anything worse.

[MikeBogina]

I had an OP not too long ago. 30 percs with the option to refill at my follow up. They actually looked at me funny when I said I wasn't taking them and didn't want anymore. They only cost me $2 l and couldn't do anything for my pain that ibuprofen can't. I didn't take them. If I wanted to be grimey I be part of the problem and make $10 a pill easily.

What is the deal with them doing this? Do doctors get some kind of commission?

Earlier this year, i saw my new physician who tried telling me I had depression, prescribed me some anti-depressants after telling me he was the professional and was upset the next time I saw him and told him I hadn't taken them.

[PACOX]

From a pharmacists perspective, the problem with the claims about weed and pain is that it is essentially based on small case studies and self reporting, as opposed to the massive population scale studies that FDA approved medications undergo. Admittedly, that is largely because there is a disproportionate amount of resistance to allowing such studies to take place, in terms of legality and funding.

That said.. it's something with minimal side effects and possible benefit. So in exact medical terms, why the hell not at the very least it won't make anything worse.

That's my opinion.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Well, sure...they horribly lied about their product...but that's fine...they were doing it for a good reason...to make more money. Fuck Yeah Unrestrained Capitalism.

[PACOX]

What is the deal with them doing this? Do doctors get some kind of commission?

Earlier this year, i saw my new physician who tried telling me I had depression, prescribed me some anti-depressants after telling me he was the professional and was upset the next time I saw him and told him I hadn't taken them.

I know when I had a caregiver job taking clients to appointments, it wasn't uncommon for sale reps to be in some offices. Incentives are probably involved
Some doctors would try to push 'free samples' (we weren't allowed to accept them). I remember one doctor who ranted about sales reps during a visit.

I've only seen stuff like that for anti-depressants and sleep aids.

[eoyeffteedubz]

This is a very interesting topic with lots of great info/thoughts presented. I will try to add a different view for consideration ... the actual manufacturing process, it’s scale, and the supply chain responsible for the insane number of pills (or w.e).
Currently it is my understanding that codeine is made from morphine which can be synthesized from oil/coal tar. Right now we’re looking at the end of a huge manufacturing chain that has been given licensing to process the coal tar/oil they buy (from who?) to make morphine. Then a few patents and manufacturing licenses later were left with a massive amount of a highly addictive drug that sells itself to make room for more. How much does this oil/coal tar cost? If magically this manufacturing chain stopped, how much money would the supplier of the starting reagent (oil/coal tar) lose? What if 10% of __ oil company’s quarterly earnings are from sales to ___ company for opioid manufacturing?
Yes these drugs are a problem. Yes Purdue Pharma should be held accountable for their illegal actions, but if they weren’t the first to patent/push/exploit/w.e, would you expect no one else to have taken their place?
I personally think the ones responsible are those giving the go ahead to mass produce morphine. Maybe one oil exec realized they can use their oil to make addictive drugs to sell to the masses and turn a major profit that will increase as the population increases/gets more addicted.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Well, sure...they horribly lied about their product...but that's fine...they were doing it for a good reason...to make more money. Fuck Yeah Unrestrained Capitalism.

Yes so pharmaceutical companies make money so did street drug dealers neither of which is responsible for the personal choices of individuals. At least drug manufacturers have government oversight.

Bottom line is all that shit is irrelevant you not 150 million other people have any clue what the medical needs of Doctors prescribing to their patients. You are unqualified at all. And as far as the majority it’s none of your business what they get to decide or have access to.

Most people don’t get a prescription for OxyContin and down that shit with alcohol.

Nobody who say gets in a car accident or breaks their arm needs to be lectured too or told what the options should be based on a bunch of uninformed other citizens.

I’ve personally used opioids. My doctor explained to me the risks along with the pharmacy that I fucking physically had to go to with a special written prescription to show my Drivers License to get a big book of pamphlets telling me all the same shit my doctor and the pharmacist just went over.

All this for a pain medication and 30 day supply I didn’t even use most of. Not to mention the fucking $900 that shit cost my insurance because of all this bullshit.

Just because some people can’t fucking follow basic instruction or use pain medication to mask their pain of something else.

No we don’t need more opioid regulation. We need more internet regulation and to go after people who are generally not doctors and don’t know what they are fucking talking about whipping people up about nine relevant in substantiated bullshit.

I’m not opposed to other qualified doctors regulating other qualified doctors with their patients.

Everyone else needs to go back watching porn, unboxing videos and kittens on YouTube.

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I'm not sure what you mean. That weed isn't a analgesic or that pain management hasn't fallen to the wayside?

What I’m saying is that people who used to be demonizes for things like the drug epidemic are quick to now point fingers at others.

We can both agree drug dealers are scum or pharmaceutical companies are greedy soulless motherfuckers only in it for the money.

But blaming the opioid crises on a bunch of doctors and drug manufacturers isn’t going to solve a drug problem that isn’t new. Neither is weed unless anyone has ever been under the impression weed is a hard drug or gateway drug.

We have a drug problem because the U.S has an avoidance problem especially when it comes to pain and I don’t mean the pain killer kind.

[Kasierith]

They are regulated. A lot. By category. You cannot limit how long patients are allowed to be on them - many patients are terminally ill and addiction is of no relevance. Now, back pain, it's actually one of the most debilitating types of pain and a very good candidate for stronger opiates - if it's properly diagnosed.

This is not about shutting down a specific substance. It's about holding responsible the corporations and doctors that pushed this through lies and overprescribed.

PS: That Adam ruins video is DUMB.

Scientists are NOT constantly trying to invent new opiates to sell to addicts, christ, or because heroin was made illegal.

In fact, science is constantly working on synthetic opiates NOT to evade laws/regulations, but to find opiates that are not creating euphoria and addiction, yet deal with pain just as efficiently as morphine. This has been a goal (and pipe dream) for pharmaceutical focused chemists for decades.

In short, it's for good, not evil :/

PPS: when new (proper) opiates are developed, they pretty much go into Schedule 2 with all the other agonist opiates:

https://www.drugs.com/schedule-2-drugs.html

Adam ruins everything tends to be pretty superficial, so any issues of even modest complexity tend to get railroaded and simplified.

Also, your post reminded me of something that occurred right when I was finishing up my internships and getting my license. In the space of three or so months, the FDA approved two specialized release opioids, with little peer review by pharmacy and medical societies. When examined, there was nothing remotely suggestive that the drugs had any benefit over others already on the market. Essentially they were doing what a lot of companies do, set up non inferiority trials to existing drugs (it performs at least equal to existing drugs), with a fresh coat of sucrose to change how it breaks up, and market it hard as a novel product hard to every doctor willing to give them time in exchange for a bagel. Pharmacy societies revolted. Insurance companies revolted. The drugs got discontinued because no one would pay for them and no one would stock them.

The point being that there are quite a few controls on the system. Yes things are bad, but some of the claims are excruciatingly hyperbolic.