Page 17 of 21 FirstFirst ...
7
15
16
17
18
19
... LastLast
  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    The tank healing priest and Pally did their job I did mine I miss having great raid healers and great tank healers. pally Int stacking to spam FOL and druids bouncing all over the place in tree form casting Rejuv. Disc priests were also the best in MOP, and suck now. When healers are OP they are in their best spot IMO. I just can't get into having to cast I feel that every caster should be able to move while casting with a 30-40% movement speed penalty. TSW did this and it was great.
    you think disc priests are bad

    you are absolutely ignorant and should just stop

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Daevied View Post
    Whoever says tier sets were bad and not missed and legendaries rng loot system were good is wrong and dont deserve to keep playing this game!
    Cleared every tier except naxx, hof/toes and tot as current content. I do not miss tier. There is no rng in azerite drops (you opt to random roll residuum)

    What people miss is playing dress-up every new tier. Which is fine, but don't conflate the issues. Azerite is, from a balancing and player power perspective, superior to tier in every imaginable way. You just wanna look cute.

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by rohoz View Post
    you think disc priests are bad

    you are absolutely ignorant and should just stop
    Didn't say they were Bad, just that I had the most fun playing one in MOP, don't like having to apply Atonement, and loved the pure DPS aspect to heal of them, were they OP... Oh, hell yeah, but they were a blast to play.

  3. #323
    Brewmaster Villager720's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Garithos (US)
    Posts
    1,343
    For me personally, I find myself not caring about any of the in-game systems.

    No armor sets to work towards in the raids (I actually like the warfront ones but thats just 20 minutes every 11 days).
    I could not care less about anything to do with Azerite or grinding out traits I had two months ago.
    No unique, class based weapon skins and mounts to work towards.
    The rewards from Islands are just recolors of mounts I already have. And ...pets.
    The way gearing and patch cycles work now, I don't care about ilvl cause it just gets inflated (as does the world's scaling...). Which has been the case since WotLK, but, it certainly doesn't help BfA's situation.
    And as noted by everyone, my classes are less fun than in Legion.

    All of this left me in a state where I would : log in, consider my options, go "meh", and log off.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Villager720 View Post
    For me personally, I find myself not caring about any of the in-game systems.

    No armor sets to work towards in the raids (I actually like the warfront ones but thats just 20 minutes every 11 days).
    I could not care less about anything to do with Azerite or grinding out traits I had two months ago.
    No unique, class based weapon skins and mounts to work towards.
    The rewards from Islands are just recolors of mounts I already have. And ...pets.
    The way gearing and patch cycles work now, I don't care about ilvl cause it just gets inflated (as does the world's scaling...). Which has been the case since WotLK, but, it certainly doesn't help BfA's situation.
    And as noted by everyone, my classes are less fun than in Legion.

    All of this left me in a state where I would : log in, consider my options, go "meh", and log off.
    I truly loath the seasonal approach to wow it's turned into in the last few years, where only the current content matters and everything from prior in the expac is nothing.

    I'd prefer it if you had to work your way up like the old days, i don't care how bad it is for players who came to the expac late this is an RPG... you are meant to beat A to get to B, B to C, and so on... now, everyone is just doing different difficulties of A and the next patch will make the next raid A and so on. There's no climbing the ladder of advancement other than artificial via difficulty which is boring for quite a bit of people.

  5. #325
    I am Murloc!
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Silvermoon City
    Posts
    5,061
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    The tank healing priest and Pally did their job I did mine I miss having great raid healers and great tank healers. pally Int stacking to spam FOL and druids bouncing all over the place in tree form casting Rejuv.
    Yeah, having healing roles was great on paper. Problem is, as a tank healer, you're the first one to get shafted if you need more DPS, as a druid spamming 3xlifebloom on tanks (for example) was able to provide a decent chunk of healing as well (or a sham spamming chain heal with MT/OT as primary target).

    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    Disc priests were also the best in MOP, and suck now
    Disc priest in early MOP were retardedly OP. I still have nightmare about empress shek'wachamacallit (the last boss of Heart of Fear) when you see every other healer getting outperformed so bad it's not even funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    When healers are OP they are in their best spot IMO.
    The thing is, if healers are OP (in terms of HPS vs dmg taken), raid leaders just bring less of them. So it comes to bite you in the ass.
    Which by the way was a huge problem in e.g. Sunwell, because you needed to swap from 6 healers (M'uru/Brutallus) to 10-11 (Eredar twins).

  6. #326
    Island Expeditions being mandatory. They are like scenarios without any story. It is just a stupid kill fest, yet the only valid way to get AP.

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    I truly loath the seasonal approach to wow it's turned into in the last few years, where only the current content matters and everything from prior in the expac is nothing.

    I'd prefer it if you had to work your way up like the old days, i don't care how bad it is for players who came to the expac late this is an RPG... you are meant to beat A to get to B, B to C, and so on... now, everyone is just doing different difficulties of A and the next patch will make the next raid A and so on. There's no climbing the ladder of advancement other than artificial via difficulty which is boring for quite a bit of people.
    Players did that and players complained through the ages that they felt shitty when they had to go back to previous tiers to get things, though.
    Revisionist wow history is really tiring.

    If people really liked the "rpg" part of raids, they wouldn't have been crying tears of bloody murder for the removal of attunements and the like in tbc. The same kids who were crying about only seeing kara back then, are the kids parroting "lfr is real raiding" and "artificial difficulty"

  8. #328
    Pandaren Monk roboscorcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,759
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    I think the whole Artifact weapon / neck thing is a joke and hated every aspect of a never ending scaling piece of gear I never replaced.

    Interesting, I disagree completely. I actually really liked the fact that it was a "permanent" weapon. Weapons have always been a big bottleneck for output in WoW and it was nice to not rely on RNG or PvP to get the good ones. In contrast, I found the Azerite Armour really mundane. Throwing endless pieces out while levelling made them feel pointless. Not to mention all the skins and challenges that artifacts brought.

    I also think that Legendary's dropping outside of a few on specific raid bosses is dumb also. The earned Legendary are fine, but the whole ooo look I did a WQ give me a Legendary was dumb.
    Yeah they bungled the Legendary system at first. By the end, I really liked having pieces that I didn't have to replace. Need a speedboost? Throw Aggramar's Stride on. Need a shield? Pop the ring (I think it was the ring).

  9. #329
    its not, both have been fantastic

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by rohoz View Post
    Players did that and players complained through the ages that they felt shitty when they had to go back to previous tiers to get things, though.
    Revisionist wow history is really tiring.

    If people really liked the "rpg" part of raids, they wouldn't have been crying tears of bloody murder for the removal of attunements and the like in tbc. The same kids who were crying about only seeing kara back then, are the kids parroting "lfr is real raiding" and "artificial difficulty"
    I was there then, and yes it was aggravating to attune someone new through SSC/TK for example; it still felt meaningful. The game was undoubtedly in a better state when they used the RPG formula of climbing the ladder of success vs the new diablo 3 style loot systems of "everyones a winner, just determine how much u wanna win".

    One is a real MMO RPG and the current game is an MMO ARPG. It's more diablo 3 today than everquest, which is a huge reason why so many have fled current wow for greener pastures or will prefer vanilla wow

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by roboscorcher View Post
    Yeah they bungled the Legendary system at first. By the end, I really liked having pieces that I didn't have to replace. Need a speedboost? Throw Aggramar's Stride on. Need a shield? Pop the ring (I think it was the ring).
    the legendary's of legion only didn't work for alt-aholics. People who played one character only, like myself, had all the legendary's WAY too early in the expac. I'd argue having all the legendary's was a bigger issue for end game raiders than "not getting my favorite piece because i've been too busy on alt #8"

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    I was there then, and yes it was aggravating to attune someone new through SSC/TK for example; it still felt meaningful. The game was undoubtedly in a better state when they used the RPG formula of climbing the ladder of success vs the new diablo 3 style loot systems of "everyones a winner, just determine how much u wanna win".

    One is a real MMO RPG and the current game is an MMO ARPG. It's more diablo 3 today than everquest, which is a huge reason why so many have fled current wow for greener pastures or will prefer vanilla wow

    - - - Updated - - -



    the legendary's of legion only didn't work for alt-aholics. People who played one character only, like myself, had all the legendary's WAY too early in the expac. I'd argue having all the legendary's was a bigger issue for end game raiders than "not getting my favorite piece because i've been too busy on alt #8"
    which is another thing that the playerbase made happen.
    funny how that works.

    And i vehemently disagree. Attuning people was a waste of time. Going back to farmed/cleared content was a waste of time. "ladder of success" is cool and all, but what about the millions who can't see the first rung? Granted I think LFR is an abomination, but do you really believe to yourself that the game was in a better state when the content was 100% designed for 2% of the playerbase if so much?

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by rohoz View Post
    which is another thing that the playerbase made happen.
    funny how that works.

    And i vehemently disagree. Attuning people was a waste of time. Going back to farmed/cleared content was a waste of time. "ladder of success" is cool and all, but what about the millions who can't see the first rung? Granted I think LFR is an abomination, but do you really believe to yourself that the game was in a better state when the content was 100% designed for 2% of the playerbase if so much?
    Yes. 100%. People logged on and strove to be better to be like the guys in t3 and t6.

    This doesn't happen today for a multitude of reasons (different difficulties, and transmog makes showing off new gear impossible).

    I couldn't disagree with you more about the ladder of success, it's why successful RPG's are timeless while ARPG tend to grow old very quickly.

    Look at d2 vs d3 for another comparison.

    Believe it or not, some games should have "have's and have not's". It fuels ambition. When you make a game "one size fits all" it appeals to nobody.

    WoW was healthier when it was more hardcore and the more casual they make it, the less people want to play it. Consider it death by a thousand cuts of QoL and nerfing the game.

    Every time they try to appease the lowest common denominator of gamer; they lose more than they gain. Wonder why that is?

  13. #333
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Alpha Quadrant
    Posts
    567
    Quote Originally Posted by roboscorcher View Post
    Were Artifacts merely a blindside? I mean, it was a core feature of the game. Levelling up the Ashbringer was probably my favorite progression in WoW. I'm a casual player, but I loved the system so much, I unlocked every skin. The system was really solid and rewarding, and BfA totally missed the mark on what made it so.
    That's not anywhere close to what I said.

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Yes. 100%. People logged on and strove to be better to be like the guys in t3 and t6.

    This doesn't happen today for a multitude of reasons (different difficulties, and transmog makes showing off new gear impossible).

    I couldn't disagree with you more about the ladder of success, it's why successful RPG's are timeless while ARPG tend to grow old very quickly.

    Look at d2 vs d3 for another comparison.

    Believe it or not, some games should have "have's and have not's". It fuels ambition. When you make a game "one size fits all" it appeals to nobody.

    WoW was healthier when it was more hardcore and the more casual they make it, the less people want to play it. Consider it death by a thousand cuts of QoL and nerfing the game.

    Every time they try to appease the lowest common denominator of gamer; they lose more than they gain. Wonder why that is?
    Seeing people in T3 actually *didn't* get people to step up and do harder content.
    Where do you think the 2% meme originated? Most people in vanilla over it's 2+ year lifespan basically sat around and did nothing. Raids? Nah. Maybe ubrs. A lot of wsg when you could get free epics.

    Do you really think D2 isn't an action rpg?

    If you think "healthy" is the same relative percentage of the playerbase doing meaningful content, and 90% doing fuckall in 0 difficulty 5mans, sure. Because that's what happened from launch to mid cata, when they introduced lfr. Now the shitty kids do 5mans and lfr.

  15. #335
    Pandaren Monk roboscorcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,759
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    the legendary's of legion only didn't work for alt-aholics. People who played one character only, like myself, had all the legendary's WAY too early in the expac. I'd argue having all the legendary's was a bigger issue for end game raiders than "not getting my favorite piece because i've been too busy on alt #8"
    Agreed. Preach was calling these issues out during the beta, and he was correct. Once you could target them, they became much better. As a blacksmith, I also appreciated having crafted legendaries that made my profession profitable and fun. I would be OK with bringing them back, with a better targeting system (they have too much power for RNG).

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by rohoz View Post
    Seeing people in T3 actually *didn't* get people to step up and do harder content.
    Where do you think the 2% meme originated? Most people in vanilla over it's 2+ year lifespan basically sat around and did nothing. Raids? Nah. Maybe ubrs. A lot of wsg when you could get free epics.

    Do you really think D2 isn't an action rpg?

    If you think "healthy" is the same relative percentage of the playerbase doing meaningful content, and 90% doing fuckall in 0 difficulty 5mans, sure. Because that's what happened from launch to mid cata, when they introduced lfr. Now the shitty kids do 5mans and lfr.
    D2 is much more an rpg than d3. Which is why d2 is more beloved, more played over time and regarded as a timeless classic while d3... well, is not.

    And yes, seeing people decked out made you want to do BT or bwl all the more. A healthy game is a game that’s growing and it turns out people like challenge and to fail sometimes. It makes the rewards that much sweeter.

    There’s no feeling like that in current wow. They shower you with gear, there’s multiple difficulties of all the content trivializing it beyond repair, and even the gear is just boring recolors and +\- stats

    We can agree to disagree but the game was better to me with much less QoL

    Never try to appease the lowest common denominator of gamer. Always aim for the middle of the top

    Wow was never better or healthier as a title than when it copied Everquest. When it started appeasing scrubs to appeal to diablo 3 crowd; it lost its soul and player base

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    D2 is much more an rpg than d3. Which is why d2 is more beloved, more played over time and regarded as a timeless classic while d3... well, is not.

    And yes, seeing people decked out made you want to do BT or bwl all the more. A healthy game is a game that’s growing and it turns out people like challenge and to fail sometimes. It makes the rewards that much sweeter.

    There’s no feeling like that in current wow. They shower you with gear, there’s multiple difficulties of all the content trivializing it beyond repair, and even the gear is just boring recolors and +\- stats

    We can agree to disagree but the game was better to me with much less QoL

    Never try to appease the lowest common denominator of gamer. Always aim for the middle of the top

    Wow was never better or healthier as a title than when it copied Everquest. When it started appeasing scrubs to appeal to diablo 3 crowd; it lost its soul and player base
    You're just attaching arbitrary words to genres to try to prove a point.
    D2 has been an ARPG since inception. Diablo is the archetype of ARPG. If you google "arpg" the diablo franchise is the first result 9/10 times, so by saying d2 is an "rpg" and d3 is an "arpg" you make 0 fucking sense because the games are of the same franchise/genre, only difference is apm.

    Wow never copied everquest, either. WoW was always EXTREMELY easy and casual friendly. Wtf are you even talking about?

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by rohoz View Post
    You're just attaching arbitrary words to genres to try to prove a point.
    D2 has been an ARPG since inception. Diablo is the archetype of ARPG. If you google "arpg" the diablo franchise is the first result 9/10 times, so by saying d2 is an "rpg" and d3 is an "arpg" you make 0 fucking sense because the games are of the same franchise/genre, only difference is apm.

    Wow never copied everquest, either. WoW was always EXTREMELY easy and casual friendly. Wtf are you even talking about?
    You are definitely trying to twist the argument to fit your narrative.

    D2 is more of an rpg than d3. That’s a fact. They stripped d3 of all its rpg mechanics and replaced it with flashy action game mechanics.

    D2 May be an arpg, but it’s also an RPG. It never forgot that. D3 is more of an action game with slight rpg hints.

    Secondly, vanilla wow did copy Everquest just made it more casual friendly. Proving my point too that wow WAS casual friendly even back then. I’d argue it was the most casual friendly it ever was in vanilla. Back then the game wasn’t “raid or die”. It was MORE eq than d3, but how it’s almost d3 the mmo in terms of its game and loot systems. Designed almost as a single player game in some regards rather than an mmo.

    Besides, I’ve already stated we can agree to disagree if that’s how you feel.

    I personally prefer the older hardcore style of WoW and it turns out a lot of people who left did too. No need to get all twisted up over a difference of opinion

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    You are definitely trying to twist the argument to fit your narrative.

    D2 is more of an rpg than d3. That’s a fact. They stripped d3 of all its rpg mechanics and replaced it with flashy action game mechanics.

    D2 May be an arpg, but it’s also an RPG. It never forgot that. D3 is more of an action game with slight rpg hints.

    Secondly, vanilla wow did copy Everquest just made it more casual friendly. Proving my point too that wow WAS casual friendly even back then. I’d argue it was the most casual friendly it ever was in vanilla. Back then the game wasn’t “raid or die”. It was MORE eq than d3, but how it’s almost d3 the mmo in terms of its game and loot systems. Designed almost as a single player game in some regards rather than an mmo.

    Besides, I’ve already stated we can agree to disagree if that’s how you feel.

    I personally prefer the older hardcore style of WoW and it turns out a lot of people who left did too. No need to get all twisted up over a difference of opinion
    Google action rpg. They called games of the diablo archetype "hack and slash" for nearly 20 years.
    D2 has no more/less of a story than D3. You do know you have a story before adventure mode, right? D2 and D3 are of the exact same genre just like modern and launch WoW. They are the same genre. RPG and traditional MMO.

    D2: you look down over your character and smack mobs that come to you, usually in a dungeon setting
    D3: you look down over your character and smack mobs that come to you, usually in a dungeon setting


    WoW Launch: you join a group of 5-40 people and with tanks, healers, and designated damage dealers, you clear dungeons or fight enemy players
    WoW Live: you join a group of 2-30 people and with tanks, healers, and designated damage dealers, you clear dungeons or fight enemy players

    I'm not twisting anything. Higher APM and higher flexibility in the core concept doesn't suddenly make it an "action rpg" when an action rpg is a defined genre. Say it is higher paced and you can't keep up, that's fine.

    D2/3 are both ARPGS, and WoW has been a traditional MMO its entire life cycle.

  20. #340
    Pandaren Monk roboscorcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,759
    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    That's not anywhere close to what I said.
    Your words were

    Legion wasn't that great to be honest. Your just blinded by the shit show that was WoD and the artifact weapons we got in Legion. This game hasn't been halfway decent since Mists of Pandaria.
    and I'm arguing that Legion was great, and artifacts made it great. What am I misrepresenting about your comment?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •