A playerbase divided

[Themerlin]

I have opinions about free stuff!

[Gungnir]

You think that because you don't like what they like.

It's pretty simple to see people taking side, and why they do that. I find the classic community to be way more aggresive than retail crowd, then again vanilla wow was slow af, so I am, like you and others very biased when it comes to this.

Whos most toxic? It's usually the ones you don't agree with.

Yeah, it sure is a hassle to see people wanting to discuss Classic in the Classic section, it's so obnoxious to have them defend their game when I come to the Classic section to tell them why they are wrong in what they believe.
They don't actually like the game, no one does, the game didn't get over 2 million players when it launched and the moonlanding was fake.

I'm not a part of either camp, though you assuredly assumed so because that's what people like you do.
I'm not subbed to retail WoW and I didn't care that much when Classic was announced. Sure I'll play it because I enjoy retro-gaming in general, I still bust out Ocarina of Time on occasion because I enjoy it.

However, there's a vast difference between a group of people saying "this version of the game will trump the other versions" and a group of people saying "classic is trash and your opinion is wrong".
Arguing that a certain version will trump a different version can be debated. You can look at it from different perspectives and find areas you can discuss whether or not it has the merits to actually be better than the other version.
Whereas the other argument is just people being obtuse for no fucking reason and decided that they'll venture into a specific subsection of a forum JUST to tell them that they're wrong.

Trust me, there's a fucking clear indicator of which side is more toxic.
Small hint, it's the one that continually shitposts in a subsection of a forum they don't belong in at all.

yes


be in a city, it's crawling with people.
go out to do a world quest, it's crawling with people.
do dungeons, there's hordes of people outside summoning others and there's normally a large and robust list of group postings in the in-game interface.
queue times for both LFD and LFR are pretty reasonable, even late at night getting into a raid takes less time than it has years.

if retail is in decline i can't conceive of what an inline is, because it feels quite populated.

An "incline" would be the spike from 2 million up to 12 million over two expansions.
The "decline" would be the fact that we're realistically at around 3.5 - 4 million subscribers now.

[Tanidor]

It is pretty sad to say how hostile the classic fans are. I played Classic. And I found it way too time consuming to make any form of progression. I love how WoW is now. Of course some changes can be made, BUT I enjoy it. And with the busy lifestyle I lead, I find that if I put enough effort into the game, I can see and obtain a lot (still needs hard work!). Now this is where the attacks happen. As soon as I posted this up on a classic WoW video youtube comment, ooh did the attacks come HARD. I was told to die. Was told that they hope I get cancer. Like wow.....OBVIOUSLY not ALL are like this, but I was honestly mortified why did I get so much hate for liking WoW now.

[Dracullus]

People these days are addicted to their tribalism

What do you mean by "these days"? Entire human history? ;D

[Themerlin]

eat my asshole and die of herpes you black cunt.

Banned?!

/wave

[Doffen]

Yeah, it sure is a hassle to see people wanting to discuss Classic in the Classic section, it's so obnoxious to have them defend their game when I come to the Classic section to tell them why they are wrong in what they believe.
They don't actually like the game, no one does, the game didn't get over 2 million players when it launched and the moonlanding was fake.

I'm not a part of either camp, though you assuredly assumed so because that's what people like you do.
I'm not subbed to retail WoW and I didn't care that much when Classic was announced. Sure I'll play it because I enjoy retro-gaming in general, I still bust out Ocarina of Time on occasion because I enjoy it.

Trust me, there's a fucking clear indicator of which side is more toxic.
Small hint, it's the one that continually shitposts in a subsection of a forum they don't belong in at all.

You are right. It's those who post in the general retail subsection on how retail is garbage when they haven't played the game for years and yell how classic will kill retail WoW. Thanks for the hint, though next time give me a real one.

And I am not assuming anything. I have discussed with you on how retail wasn't good before. If I didn't know, I wouldn't have said that to you. And yes, it's a general statement, but you take it as you like.

However, there's a vast difference between a group of people saying "this version of the game will trump the other versions" and a group of people saying "classic is trash and your opinion is wrong".
Arguing that a certain version will trump a different version can be debated. You can look at it from different perspectives and find areas you can discuss whether or not it has the merits to actually be better than the other version.
Whereas the other argument is just people being obtuse for no fucking reason and decided that they'll venture into a specific subsection of a forum JUST to tell them that they're wrong.

Both sides says that. You are obviously taking a side here. When classic players are "insulting" that's okay because of one of 10 "insults" is debateable. While the other side are obtuse for no fucking reason.

I find classic fans being a bit more toxic, or condenscending towards those who like retail than the opposite, but both sides are very close when it comes to this.

[Malkiah]

An "incline" would be the spike from 2 million up to 12 million over two expansions.
The "decline" would be the fact that we're realistically at around 3.5 - 4 million subscribers now.

in an abstract, yes - but that's saying if you went from having 12 million dollars to having 3.5 - 4 million dollars, you're now poor.

i mean don't get me wrong, i'm not arguing that sub numbers are less than they were, but actually playing the game... you see people all over the place, it's not like the game world feels isolated. sure, maybe now it's the party at 1am instead of the party at 10pm, but unless you're judging it only in the most extremes in terms of sub numbers, asking if there is even a "retail crowd" as if nobody is playing is rather silly.

[Gungnir]

It is pretty sad to say how hostile the classic fans are. I played Classic. And I found it way too time consuming to make any form of progression. I love how WoW is now. Of course some changes can be made, BUT I enjoy it. And with the busy lifestyle I lead, I find that if I put enough effort into the game, I can see and obtain a lot (still needs hard work!). Now this is where the attacks happen. As soon as I posted this up on a classic WoW video youtube comment, ooh did the attacks come HARD. I was told to die. Was told that they hope I get cancer. Like wow.....OBVIOUSLY not ALL are like this, but I was honestly mortified why did I get so much hate for liking WoW now.

It's mainly because the Vanilla playerbase/movement has been getting ridiculed and abused since 2010, and now when they're finally getting a server, they're now getting abused in their own forum subsection BECAUSE they're getting a server.

It's not that "Classic fans" are hostile, they're just tired of hearing "you think you do but you don't" at this point.

in an abstract, yes - but that's saying if you went from having 12 million dollars to having 3.5 - 4 million dollars, you're now poor.

i mean don't get me wrong, i'm not arguing that sub numbers are less than they were, but actually playing the game... you see people all over the place, it's not like the game world feels isolated. sure, maybe now it's the party at 1am instead of the party at 10pm, but unless you're judging it only in the most extremes in terms of sub numbers, asking if there is even a "retail crowd" as if nobody is playing is rather silly.

Of course, by comparison, it's still the most successful MMO.
But I wouldn't say that it's exactly crowded, a few of my friends still play on one of the largest EU servers and there's at most around 15 - 20 people in the city during the evenings, and finding people doing WQ's that aren't emissary or high reward is basically non-existant. Contrast that to WotLK where your computer would effectively die when zoning into Dalaran because it was rendering several hundreds of players.

Also I'm not the person you were quoting in the first place, but he was correct in his statement nonetheless.
Retail is in a massive decline and has been since WoD.

[Fiacla]

Banned?!

/wave

It's a user who is a frequent poster on mmo-c I presume, eleccybubb (similar name), using a new account perhaps? Not sure though.

Either way it's quite sad.

[Gungnir]

I think some will enjoy playing Classic. And others will enjoy playing the current retail game. And both will continue flinging insults at each others, because that's kinda how the Internet works. These two things must be mutually exclusive. And people must spend hours correcting others on the Internet. Because we can't have people who are wrong on the Internet.

Treating the entire playerbase (and everyone who has ever played WoW) as a one homogeneous "community" seems like a brave step, but if you want to do that, I'm certainly not going to stop you from worrying about "fracturing". It fractures in all kinds of ways.

It's not even people who are wrong, it's two camps of idiots trying to somehow convince the other that their personal opinion is the only "right".
It's a gigantic shitfest at best and should be just ignored outright because it will never stop, it'll just erode your sanity.

[shoegazing]

I predict that most people actually want more then 3 abilities on there bar

This is correct. This is exactly the reason that retail WoW is pruned garbage

[Gungnir]

You are right. It's those who post in the general retail subsection on how retail is garbage when they haven't played the game for years and yell how classic will kill retail WoW. Thanks for the hint, though next time give me a real one.

And I am not assuming anything. I have discussed with you on how retail wasn't good before. If I didn't know, I wouldn't have said that to you. And yes, it's a general statement, but you take it as you like.

I frequent both sections and I have yet to find anyone being as obtrusive and abrasive as certain individuals in the Classic section.
There's a select 5 or so names that I see in every single Classic thread being made, and it's always the same type of post in the same broken English.

Secondly, you are assuming.
Yes, I am not a fan of the current game design, but I couldn't care less that others enjoy it.
People can enjoy what they want, even if I personally don't. You're somehow assuming that just because I've stated that I dislike the product, that it must mean I'm one of those that dislike the people who enjoy the product.
They're not mutually fucking exclusive my friend, I'm allowed to dislike a product without disliking the playerbase.

Both sides says that. You are obviously taking a side here. When classic players are "insulting" that's okay because of one of 10 "insults" is debateable. While the other side are obtuse for no fucking reason.

I find classic fans being a bit more toxic, or condenscending towards those who like retail than the opposite, but both sides are very close when it comes to this.

Yes, because one side is actively toxic and demeaning to people in a subsection they don't belong in, while the other is demeaning to a product.
One of those things has emotions, the other doesn't.
As said before, and sure while this could be argued as "anecdotal evidence", MMO Champ doesn't really have a mass-post tracker to reliably use anything but my own experience alas, but I've seen a lot more intensely toxic shit on the Classic subsection than the General subsection and that's with me lurking in the General section more than anything else on here.

[Doffen]

I frequent both sections and I have yet to find anyone being as obtrusive and abrasive as certain individuals in the Classic section.
There's a select 5 or so names that I see in every single Classic thread being made, and it's always the same type of post in the same broken English.

Secondly, you are assuming.
Yes, I am not a fan of the current game design, but I couldn't care less that others enjoy it.
People can enjoy what they want, even if I personally don't. You're somehow assuming that just because I've stated that I dislike the product, that it must mean I'm one of those that dislike the people who enjoy the product.
They're not mutually fucking exclusive my friend, I'm allowed to dislike a product without disliking the playerbase.



Yes, because one side is actively toxic and demeaning to people in a subsection they don't belong in, while the other is demeaning to a product.
One of those things has emotions, the other doesn't.
As said before, and sure while this could be argued as "anecdotal evidence", MMO Champ doesn't really have a mass-post tracker to reliably use anything but my own experience alas, but I've seen a lot more intensely toxic shit on the Classic subsection than the General subsection and that's with me lurking in the General section more than anything else on here.

Think we might read different threads then, either way me and you won't agree anyway. What we might agree on that both sides got people who can't see opinions for what it is, opinions.

Assuming, as in, I know what you feel about current game isn't assuming. You are taking a side. Don't pretend otherwise.

[Has lost its way]

Let me tell you the tale of the day the bads came...

WoW used to have balance... casuals did their own thing with a rich end game. Raiders raided and pvpers pvped. Yet in this paradise existed a wicked and hateful creature named "the bad".

The bads had no friends no community they existed in a state of endless envy and so when wrath launched the bads attacked... At first it was dungeons they demanded a mode just for them where everyone had to carry them. So kick protection was put in place. The problem though is a bad has a hole where its heart should be and forever hungers..

Once they had dungeons they demanded world content be made easier and so elites were banished, then from there heroics where turned into wel fare loot runs it was only at the end of cata with the entire world of warcraft bent the knee to the bads and lfr was made.

Now we see the end of wow. A game designed to those who can either grind endless in order to give the bads a sense of progression in their challenge less game as the raiders slowly die off.

I imagine with classic the same struggle will start again.

[Gungnir]

Think we might read different threads then, either way me and you won't agree anyway. What we might agree on that both sides got people who can't see opinions for what it is, opinions.

We do agree on the fact that either side of the camp is mutually retarded, I've never argued against that.
The only thing I ever did was state which side of the argument I personally found to be more abrasive due to what that argument entailed.

Assuming, as in, I know what you feel about current game isn't assuming. You are taking a side. Don't pretend otherwise.

Except you never said that, you definitely assumed since you specifically used the words "You think that because you don't like what they like" whereas that's quite false.
It could've been a discussion regarding pears versus apples and I still would've chimed in if I felt like one of the sides are actively more toxic in how they word their "discussions". That doesn't mean that I endorse either fruit or product, just that I felt like one side was being disproportionally retarded in a very blatant way.

[Ielenia]

However, I can't be the only one to have noticed the massive increase in hostilities between the retail and classic crowd?

"Massive increase of hostilities between current and classic WoW players"? What, are you new to vanilla WoW discussion threads, or something?

It's been like that even since before that-server-that-shall-not-be-named was closed.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I mean its pretty simple, WoW classic is for chads and retail WoW is for betas and I predict that most people actually want more then 3 abilities on there bar. I suspect classic will take the OSRS route.

This really doesn’t make sense when classic has specs like prot warriors where you just spam sunder armour. Ability use wise live is always gonna beat out classic.

[lollerlaban]

I mean its pretty simple, WoW classic is for chads and retail WoW is for betas and I predict that most people actually want more then 3 abilities on there bar. I suspect classic will take the OSRS route.

Why are they playing classic then?

[FelPlague]

You think that because you don't like what they like.

It's pretty simple to see people taking side, and why they do that. I find the classic community to be way more aggresive than retail crowd, then again vanilla wow was slow af, so I am, like you and others very biased when it comes to this.

Whos most toxic? It's usually the ones you don't agree with.



I rest my case.


Definitely. Even though I think classic was boring, I will still try it. And very happy for those die hard vanilla fans that now got what they wanted.

issue is he hates everything wow, he got banned for shilling final fantasy 14 non stop and then other stuff but i wont go into that. look into his old posts and his main account in my sig if ya wanna see that kinda stuff, i plan to keep it as a mark of his legacy, instead of all this racist nonsense.


there is people on both sides, i play bfa but i will be playing a fuck ton of classic.

i dont support "OUR GAME IS BETTER FUCK YOUR GAME" from either side
but for sure i see it more from the classic side, and its toxic, i feel people should enjoy their game instead of constantly trying to compare it to others, it just feels like "my game is shit, so i have to justify it by making sure other games look worse!"

[Doffen]

We do agree on the fact that either side of the camp is mutually retarded, I've never argued against that.
The only thing I ever did was state which side of the argument I personally found to be more abrasive due to what that argument entailed.



Except you never said that, you definitely assumed since you specifically used the words "You think that because you don't like what they like" whereas that's quite false.
It could've been a discussion regarding pears versus apples and I still would've chimed in if I felt like one of the sides are actively more toxic in how they word their "discussions". That doesn't mean that I endorse either fruit or product, just that I felt like one side was being disproportionally retarded in a very blatant way.

I didn't assume that you don't like current WoW, and I don't have to explain that for the third time do I? Because you have discussed so with me before that you don't like it. How on earth is that assuming?

I wrote that it's easier to take one side if you don't like the other side, as in you take side with classic since you don't like what the other side like, wich is retail. If that is so wrong saying that about YOU, I am sorry, but it's very much so in every discussion. People are biased, I am too. And that makes it a lot easier to take side.

- - - Updated - - -

issue is he hates everything wow, he got banned for shilling final fantasy 14 non stop and then other stuff but i wont go into that. look into his old posts and his main account in my sig if ya wanna see that kinda stuff, i plan to keep it as a mark of his legacy, instead of all this racist nonsense.


there is people on both sides, i play bfa but i will be playing a fuck ton of classic.

i dont support "OUR GAME IS BETTER FUCK YOUR GAME" from either side
but for sure i see it more from the classic side, and its toxic, i feel people should enjoy their game instead of constantly trying to compare it to others, it just feels like "my game is shit, so i have to justify it by making sure other games look worse!"

I know this, and have discussed with elecc before, both when he loved WoW 6 months ago, and now after when he hates it. It was more of an example of a retail hater being toxic or rude.

Both sides are toxic, I bet all of us has been toxic now and then as well. No angels here, just lots of human beings with emotions.