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  1. #701
    Quote Originally Posted by GothamCity View Post
    Highly unlikely. Most of the next expansion will be deep into development by the time Classic comes out. We'll be getting the X8 announcement about 2 months after Classic launches. No time to redo all the major features and systems. Plus it will take years of Classic overshadowing the real game before any major changes would be considered. They're not going to redo X8 based on some initial hype from the last week. They'll likely not even consider Classic for X9 because it will still be too new to be considered impactful. A year or two out, if Classic is still outpacing Live, then maybe there will be changes in either X10, or 10.1/10.2/10.3 (major patches of X9)
    Not necessarily, keep in mind that reason Blizzard introduced classic is because they did the math and figured it will be profitable for them to do it. Next expansion already started it's pre-production way before BFA was released so some metrics from the classic could impact decisions on X9.

    Something tells me that we might be waiting a bit longer for the next expansion.

  2. #702
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assorted Whip View Post
    Not necessarily, keep in mind that reason Blizzard introduced classic is because they did the math and figured it will be profitable for them to do it. Next expansion already started it's pre-production way before BFA was released so some metrics from the classic could impact decisions on X9.

    Something tells me that we might be waiting a bit longer for the next expansion.
    Actually they introduced Classic as a love letter to their diehard fans and even said they will see it through despite any losses. So your entire premise is false. Unless you think they lied with those statements, which is just conspiracy nonsense at that point.
    Last edited by GothamCity; 2019-05-24 at 10:26 AM.
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  3. #703
    Quote Originally Posted by GothamCity View Post
    Actually they introduced Classic as a love letter to their diehard fans and even said they will see it through despite any losses. So your entire premise is false. Unless you think they lied with those statements, which is just conspiracy nonsense at that point.
    You must be really naive if you think big business does something out of love instead of profit.

  4. #704
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsierx View Post
    Yes, I do think Classic will overtake retail. I participated in the Stess test and the few hours I played that was far better than any experience I’ve had in years playing retail WoW. I think a lot of people will be surprised at the continued popularity of Classic.
    Nostalgia is a powerful drug.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KronoFett View Post
    Based on all supporting evidence, beta, twitch numbers, google trends yes classic will overshadow retail by quite a large amount.

    It is beyond delusional to think it won't take over BFA. It is not a small number of people, most people are very interested. This website is a small minority of addicts to retail WoW and does not account to the majority of people interested in the game. This forum is an echo chamber that doesn't allow discussion against retail thus most peoples opinions on this website are biased and forced to a certain direction. .
    Actually you are the one that is beyond delusional. BFA is in a down cylcle waiting for the next patch while beta just came out. When 8.2 hits many people will go back to BFA. Then when Classic releases some will go back to that. It will go back and forth. Yoru classic bais is clouding you.

  5. #705
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Nostalgia is a powerful drug.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Actually you are the one that is beyond delusional. BFA is in a down cylcle waiting for the next patch while beta just came out. When 8.2 hits many people will go back to BFA. Then when Classic releases some will go back to that. It will go back and forth. Yoru classic bais is clouding you.
    People dissatisfied with BFA and unsubbed are not going to be coming back for 8.2...

  6. #706
    Quote Originally Posted by KronoFett View Post
    People dissatisfied with BFA and unsubbed are not going to be coming back for 8.2...
    Ofc some will... Some of them will also leave again shortly after. Any release of new content for any game no matter how horrid will gain some new players or old players coming back.

    Unless you think everyone unsubbed and dissatisfied are of one hive mind and you what said hive mind thinks.

  7. #707
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Unless you think everyone unsubbed and dissatisfied are of one hive mind and you what said hive mind thinks.
    That certainly seems to be the case for some people. They believe that millions of subscribers quit because of *that one reason* (whatever it might be), so once Classic (or whatever expansion is their favourite/set just before this disatrous change happened) is back and reverts that, they will all return together.

  8. #708
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Ofc some will... Some of them will also leave again shortly after. Any release of new content for any game no matter how horrid will gain some new players or old players coming back.

    Unless you think everyone unsubbed and dissatisfied are of one hive mind and you what said hive mind thinks.
    basing off of subscriber history before they stopped showing numbers in WOD...

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...in-One-Quarter

    People don't normally come back...

  9. #709
    To log in with friends and do some random stuff? Sure. No less, no more.

  10. #710
    Quote Originally Posted by Astranea View Post
    Interesting idea but... how will that be Classic, if it wasn’t there back then?

    Kinda seems a bug in reasoning to me. So basically what you say is, that what defines Classic is the specific quest tracking and class/talent setup plus cap level limit?

    While NEW locations, NEW armor sets, and NEW graphics for all of these NEW things would still be Classic, because the underlying mechanics are the same?

    But would they be, if the new content armors gave better stats, which made the previous cap gear feel weak?

    I’m not saying they should not. Honestly, I just think I won’t spend much time in Classic unless some of the progression I achieve there can give me access to classic armor sets and titles I missed to the retail toons I’ve been playing 10+ years, having only started in BC...

    An alternate timeline could be appealing to some/many, but... I thought the whole point of Classic was that things had to be as they were back then? I am confused. Where is the line drawn? Would there need be different ‘Classic progression’ and ‘Closed classic’ servers then for those who do NOT want things to be changed/added to Classic as they feel that would not be Classic at all?

    Said that, developing more horizontal content may be a good idea for retail, seen we already cap at 120, and that’s beginning to feel somewhat silly imho, not to mention potentially scary for the new players.
    Classic is more the style of game, the classes, and the progression system more than it is simply what is. Classic would probably add content at 60 after naxx (2 years down the road) by community vote, much like Old School Runescape (which has now dwarfed live RS in population)

    You can't achieve what makes classic, well classic, in live without literally burning the whole thing to the ground and starting over. Some people prefer the ARPG style of current wow over the EQ like MMO RPG style of classic. To each their own and there's plenty of WoW for us all.

    I'm not against new content in classic, so long as it maintains the SPIRIT of classic WoW. Treat it like the RPG D&D game it was supposed to be, and new content can be added respectfully and at community request.

    They can't fix live to me without breaking it for others, so i have what i want in classic. Whether i get new content or not is irrelevant as there is enough there for years as it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Nostalgia is a powerful drug.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Actually you are the one that is beyond delusional. BFA is in a down cylcle waiting for the next patch while beta just came out. When 8.2 hits many people will go back to BFA. Then when Classic releases some will go back to that. It will go back and forth. Yoru classic bais is clouding you.
    I'm just going to point out that WOW classic STRESS TEST 1, the smallest ST of them all; had more people in the starting zones than are on ENTIRE SERVERS in BFA. By a large margin.

    That one addon account counted 8000 new characters in an hour. Do any live realms even have 8k total?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GothamCity View Post
    Actually they introduced Classic as a love letter to their diehard fans and even said they will see it through despite any losses. So your entire premise is false. Unless you think they lied with those statements, which is just conspiracy nonsense at that point.
    You're misunderstanding him. What he's saying is that if/when classic inevitably overshadows live WoW... that next expac may be pushed back to try to give it a more classic wow feeling to try and win lost fans back.

    i don't think they can give Live WoW a classic feel. Too many QoL changes, LFG/LFR, M+, and other systems in place that would have to be removed entirely and that isn't fair to those who enjoy the Diablo 3 style of current WoW.

    They can have live, we can have classic. win/win. there's enough wow for us all

  11. #711
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assorted Whip View Post
    You must be really naive if you think big business does something out of love instead of profit.
    He never said that they would do it out of love instead of profit. You're quite correct in that big business will always consider profit, but it is entirely possible to release a product whose goodwill value is worth more to long term profits for the company as a whole than the loss that product might make in and of itself.

    That's the real hook here for Blizzard. The goodwill they hope to earn by releasing Classic has value that will likely translate into revenue down the line. Classic generates interest not only in itself, but also on WoW and Blizzard.

    There's also another factor that you haven't considered. Classic is also about protecting their brand from pirate servers. Classic is as much about stopping the trickle of sub-losses to those pirate servers (which over a long enough time period adds up to a significant number) as it is about getting people to play Classic.

  12. #712
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    He never said that they would do it out of love instead of profit. You're quite correct in that big business will always consider profit, but it is entirely possible to release a product whose goodwill value is worth more to long term profits for the company as a whole than the loss that product might make in and of itself.

    That's the real hook here for Blizzard. The goodwill they hope to earn by releasing Classic has value that will likely translate into revenue down the line. Classic generates interest not only in itself, but also on WoW and Blizzard.

    There's also another factor that you haven't considered. Classic is also about protecting their brand from pirate servers. Classic is as much about stopping the trickle of sub-losses to those pirate servers (which over a long enough time period adds up to a significant number) as it is about getting people to play Classic.
    If it weren't for those pirate servers we would never see Classic WoW. Their popularity forced Blizzard to make a move due to possibility of making good profit down the road. I'm sure they were concerned about protecting their IP but to a lesser extent.

    Call me skeptical but I don't think Blizzard has a "good will" to give players what they want anymore. There are countless threads about all the bad about BFA and what has Blizzard done about it? They are providing some band-aid fixes in 8.2 but that is still far from what they could actually do.

    It's entirely possible to release a goodwill product but in this case if it were so we would see Classic way before pirate servers started it all.

  13. #713
    Quote Originally Posted by Assorted Whip View Post
    If it weren't for those pirate servers we would never see Classic WoW. Their popularity forced Blizzard to make a move due to possibility of making good profit down the road. I'm sure they were concerned about protecting their IP but to a lesser extent.

    Call me skeptical but I don't think Blizzard has a "good will" to give players what they want anymore. There are countless threads about all the bad about BFA and what has Blizzard done about it? They are providing some band-aid fixes in 8.2 but that is still far from what they could actually do.

    It's entirely possible to release a goodwill product but in this case if it were so we would see Classic way before pirate servers started it all.
    The problem with 8.2 and Bfa is a lot of its faults are cooked into the crust, so to speak, and no patch can fix it. It takes an expac and an entire rework to do that

    Secondly, you’d be crazy to call wow classic anything other than a labor of love. They brought in the nostalrius team, they rebuilt a lot of the code from scratch, they aren’t charging an extra sub, and no cash shop.

    Fact is Blizz is unlikely to make profit on it unless it’s successful long term. Maybe the private servers forced their hand, but the classic team is only a handful of guys at Blizz just passionate about recreating the experience.

  14. #714
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Secondly, you’d be crazy to call wow classic anything other than a labor of love. They brought in the nostalrius team, they rebuilt a lot of the code from scratch, they aren’t charging an extra sub, and no cash shop.
    This may be true but management is making the decisions not the guys who are coding it. Those assholes are driven by profits not love. What they're counting on is initial surge of millions of subs which will pay for the development / marketing costs. So in worst case scenario they will break even just with one month of subs.

  15. #715
    Quote Originally Posted by Assorted Whip View Post
    This may be true but management is making the decisions not the guys who are coding it. Those assholes are driven by profits not love. What they're counting on is initial surge of millions of subs which will pay for the development / marketing costs. So in worst case scenario they will break even just with one month of subs.
    Regardless, this is about as good as we're gonna get in 2019 gaming. It's definitely a passion project and you can tell by how open they are about the project, where as the BFA team interviews come off as Ian stance dancing lawyer talk.

  16. #716
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assorted Whip View Post
    If it weren't for those pirate servers we would never see Classic WoW.
    This is most likely true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Assorted Whip View Post
    Their popularity forced Blizzard to make a move due to possibility of making good profit down the road. I'm sure they were concerned about protecting their IP but to a lesser extent.
    Try to look at it holistically. That's the point I am making. Everything is a factor. In other words, while individual elements (eg revenue generated from people paying subscriptions to play Classic) might not be sufficient to justify the cost of making Classic, collectively they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Assorted Whip View Post
    Call me skeptical but I don't think Blizzard has a "good will" to give players what they want anymore. There are countless threads about all the bad about BFA and what has Blizzard done about it? They are providing some band-aid fixes in 8.2 but that is still far from what they could actually do.

    It's entirely possible to release a goodwill product but in this case if it were so we would see Classic way before pirate servers started it all.
    I think you miss the point of what we mean by good will. The good will we're talking about is what they hope to generate within players, not that Blizzards motives are stem from their own good will.

    What we're saying is that they are prepared to make a financial loss to generate that good will (within players - towards Blizzard). That doesn't mean that they are doing it out good will on their part.

    As you yourself alluded: Blizzard are motivated by profit. There is no profit to be made in actively trying to not give players what they want. Therefore it is somewhat illogical to conclude that, because of all the complaints about BfA, Blizzard aren't trying to give the players what we want. They might not always succeed, but that doesn't mean they aren't trying.
    Last edited by Raelbo; 2019-05-24 at 02:45 PM.

  17. #717
    Classic will 100% take over retail.
    The feeling of WANTING to login to the game just to mess around and have fun will be back.

    It's going to be amazing spending time with friends in the cross faction zones just messing around.
    Cannot wait to raid other faction cities, grief world bosses and just generally mess around in the world.

  18. #718
    I don't think it will overtake retail, but I think it will have healthy numbers for quite some time. New content and expansions will always keep retail more popular (in my opinion).

  19. #719
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherling View Post
    I don't think it will overtake retail, but I think it will have healthy numbers for quite some time. New content and expansions will always keep retail more popular (in my opinion).
    what's in classic will last 2 years easy, and they are open to adding new lvl 60 content voted by the community after Naxx is over.

    TBH, i feel the opposite. I don't see how retail can even begin to compete with classic. I saw more excitement towards classic during the beta than i've seen in WoW in 10+ years. The NEED to log in, that's something WoW hasn't had for me in many years

  20. #720
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    Quote Originally Posted by Assorted Whip View Post
    This may be true but management is making the decisions not the guys who are coding it. Those assholes are driven by profits not love. What they're counting on is initial surge of millions of subs which will pay for the development / marketing costs. So in worst case scenario they will break even just with one month of subs.
    No. You're not listening to what we're telling you: Blizzard claimed that the amount of money that they would make out of subs from people playing Classic was not a consideration in their decision to produce, release and support Classic. Therefore it is false to claim that Blizzard is counting on any initial surge of millions of subs.

    I am also not saying that this doesn't mean Blizzard did this out of the goodness of their hearts, or some sense of charity. I am saying that there is an explanation for Blizzard maintaining a profit-driven motivation even while choosing to release a product that they do not expect will make a profit. And that is that there is value in earning goodwill with players and protecting their IP from pirate servers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by toffmcsoft View Post
    Classic will 100% take over retail.
    The feeling of WANTING to login to the game just to mess around and have fun will be back.
    Two logical errors in your reasoning here:

    1) Not everyone lost that feeling.
    2) Classic won't bring that feeling back for everyone who has lost it.

    You're basically just using your own anecdotal data set of the small sample of people around you to make an assumption about the playerbase as a whole without considering that fact that simply by their association with you, they likely represent a view that is biased towards your own.

    Case in point: My own anecdotal data set predicts the complete opposite to what you predict. This suggests that the truth is probably somewhere in between.

    Quote Originally Posted by toffmcsoft View Post
    It's going to be amazing spending time with friends in the cross faction zones just messing around.
    Cannot wait to raid other faction cities, grief world bosses and just generally mess around in the world.
    That sounds awesome. And I'm glad that there are people who are looking forward to Classic. It can only be good for the game as a whole

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