Do you think Classic will Overtake Retail?

[justandulas]

I agree with you 100% - I've started thinking that they may be using it to release brand new stories and expansions while maintaining some of the main characters, rather than offing them so quickly as they have in the retail version. It might be a far fetched idea but how many times do you get the opportunity to go back and correct your mistakes in a story? I think this is a unique opportunity.

I, too, kinda hope they add more content on at the end of WoW Classic and spin it off into it's own MMO so to speak. Alternate reality WoW where they could keep the systems of the past, but with new content.

Only problem is that retail would suffer over moving development to new classic content, and we know retail players wouldn't like that at all.

I do think a reset of WoW is needed to save wow though

[crono14]

Where do you get this number of "millions" who "want their retro game back"?

Yes, millions have certainly left WoW over one and a half decades. But what would be your basis for deciding how many of them want to go back and play Vanilla again? (and by that I mean actually get stuck into the game good and proper, not just a brief return to reminisce)

What would be your basis for assuming they don't come back and play? I played Vanilla all the way from MC - Naxx 40(almost cleared) with the same guild for almost 3 years. I still talk to about 5 or so of those guildies daily and all are excited to be able to go back and play. Everyone I know will be playing Vanilla in varying degrees and different goals. We are all grown with jobs and responsibilities, so of course no one has time to play as much as we did in the past, but it's also not required anymore. We are all much better players now that the challenges back then won't be challenges now. A heroic boss now in retail probably has more mechanics than almost every boss in BWL and MC had. The challenge is mainly managing the people, but even then won't be that bad.

I for one don't really care to go hard and clear things fast, but I plan on playing casually and enjoying a great game which it is. Regardless of how old it is and how far games have come, it's still a great game.

[Cosmic Janitor]

No one who takes board gaming even slightly seriously plays Monopoly. It's in the kiddie pool of boardgaming. The board games of today are vastly superior to those "classics".

To this day I wonder who actually plays monopoly..?

[justandulas]

To this day I wonder who actually plays monopoly..?

To this day Monopoly ranks 5th on board games played and sold (behind things like chess and checkers, even though i wouldn't personally count them as board games).

Don't forget monopoly is very popular even if you and i don't play it; and there's hundreds of different versions. You want a star wars monopoly? They have that. You want a star trek monopoly? they got you. want a harry potter monopoly? they most definitely got Potteropoly. You want a monopoly based on your dog? They even have that even for special rare breeds like Bulldog-opoly. I'm not even kidding about any of that.

Don't sleep on how popular Monopoly is worldwide.

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No one who takes board gaming even slightly seriously plays Monopoly. It's in the kiddie pool of boardgaming. The board games of today are vastly superior to those "classics".

Do remind me how many these vastly superior board games sell again? Oh right, not even as much as monopoly spin offs. /eyeroll.

Monopoly isn't my favorite, i prefer risk, but to say it isn't popular or played is absurd considering it's pretty much the top board game sold/played yearly

[Arakakao]

What other reason do they have to continue to play the game? Everyone left BfA, so those who stuck around are doing so because that's the game they've been playing since TBC or WOTLK. You can't tell me they're enjoying the none existing content and the endless Diablo 3 style loot grind in the game?
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Maybe because there are things to do. Not everyone has cleared all mythic bosses. You can do weekly +10 or more mythic dungeons, level up alts, hunt rare mounts, obtain transmog appearnces, PvP (and every two weeks PvP brawls happen, and some of them are extremely fun). Like it or not, there are a lot of things to do in BfA. Also, endless loot grind? As opposed to run Scholomance for the Nth time to attain exalted with the Argent Dawn or downing BWL bosses with 40 people and obtain 2 pieces of random gear? I see no difference with Classic.

Cross Realm Zones make a dead realm look populated. Also first hand experience isn't exactly proof of anything. The WoW active players leak showed that BfA was running on fumes several months ago. It was guesstimated to be 1.7 million several months ago, so I can see it being less than a million by now.

I know these aren't official numbers but officially Blizzard isn't releasing any info either. It's ded rrayy. You got nothing to compare Classic to.

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Those data are not reliable, and is not a matter of "cross-realms zones". I still find a lot of people from my server, specially if you activate war mode and start doing quests: everything is full of people and you can engage into good old world pvp.

I didn't know that. Ahead of Fortnite? That's amazing. But Classic won't last forever as the content is finite. Unless Blizzard is also working on a TBC server as well, as they should be. As long as Blizzard is working on expansions then Classic won't ever die.

I'm personally looking forward to Classic dividing the community as many people believed this casual catastrophe was a one size fits all deal. Once Classic over takes retail, it'll be the start of the end of casual WoW. They can take their LFR and Pokemon with them.

WoW became more casual friendly because players want it to be. Remember what happened when they went back to hardcore heroic dungeons in Cataclysm? Most people hated it. Like it or not, most of WoW's player base is made of casual players, including those who started in vanilla. I've been playing since the original beta and if WoW went back to the old design philosophy I'd cancel my subscription.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

A good game is a good game for all time. It’s timeless. Wow vanilla is one of the greatest games ever made. It is in the game hall of fame. None of its expacs are, but vanilla is.

Where are you getting that it’s only classic?

Blizzard hosts World of Warcraft servers in many countries, thereby making it popular in every region of the world and allowing gamers to forge relationships across the globe. As of February 2015, the game boasted more than 10 million subscribers—only slightly reduced from its peak of 12 million in October 2010—with 100 million accounts created since the game’s release. In an era when free-to-play gaming is swiftly gaining ground, the game’s ability to entice players to pay a $15 monthly fee speaks volumes to its lasting popularity.

https://www.worldvideogamehalloffame...ld-of-warcraft

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I’ll dig up the link, yea it wasn’t to knock the expacs they just don’t include dlc.

That said, while I’m link hunting, wsup with wc3 remastered? Any word on that? I feel like it’s been eons since there was news

Edit: a link https://www.worldvideogamehalloffame...ld-of-warcraft

That’s not classic only it clearly sites 2015 and 2010

[Ielenia]

The silent majority are classic wow players who’ve left over time.

Any evidence for that bold claim?

[Poe]

Initially ? Yes

A year from now? Probably not.

[Ielenia]

Over a million signed the petition for wow classic in short time like a weekend.

What petition? The only one I know is the one that started after that-pirate-server-that-shall-not-be-named got closed, and it didn't even reach 300k signatures. And that was in its whole lifetime. Care to show me a link to this elusive 1mil+ signed petition?

Wow classic beta is more packed than any server I’ve seen since tbc.

Classic WoW also uses server population cap numbers from vanilla. Blizzard has increased server pop cap more than once over the years.

It is going to explode

Or implode. But the most likely scenario is that it'll just "be there": won't be the resounding success the zealot pro-vanilla players claim it'll be, but won't be the abysmal failure the fervent anti-classic players claim it'll be.

[Sezh]

The silent majority are classic wow players who’ve left over time. Wow has more lost players from vanilla than they do active bfa subs

That's not the definition of a silent majority. The only people who left over time that will come back for classic are the people you see on these forums, who themselves are a minority.

[kenn9530]

classic is just a new thing that many players didnt get to try, its not even a true classic but its close enough, loads of ppl will try it and then realise its just an inferior version of the game they are currently playing, it will then slowly get to a smaller playerbase of those that may play it for the long run or jump back and fourth, but wow is already in decline so its not going to improve the game by any large margain.

It would be better if they started work on a new generation MMO set in a different universe, i would prefer a diablo MMO over current WoW, but they are gonna milk that wow cow till it dies.

[Raelbo]

Over a million signed the petition for wow classic in short time like a weekend.

I don't think that's correct. The official petition hit 280K. And it took a few weeks. And it included people like me who don't particularly care about Classic for ourselves but participated out of a sense of solidarity....

Wow classic beta is more packed than any server I’ve seen since tbc.

What is the server capacity? AFAIK not much more than 5-10K at a time.

YouTubers who were doubters now full believers (preach and asmkngold, cellular and kelani too) and their comment sections. There’s more desire for wow classic than people expect.

Positive feedback regarding the Classic experience is not tantamount to a multi-year commitment to the game. I totally accept evidence of significant interest in people trying out Classic - as I said in a previous post - comparable to the levels seen for WoW expansions. But that is not a basis for making a prediction on the long term interest in the game.

The amount of divide between classic vs retail is unnecessary though. Support each other even if we have no interest playing that version. Different strokes.

I agree. Although, honestly, I can't see how what I have been writing could be construed as such.

Perhaps to understand my viewpoint better: I support the idea of Classic. And I find it interesting to debate how it will fare. But my expectations of it's popularity are a lot lower than optimists like yourself. That is not to say that I think Classic will fail or that it's not worthwhile. Classic doesn't need to rake in millions of monthly subscribers to make it a worthwhile endeavour. I reckon that a stable base of even as low as 50K would qualify it as a success - and I suspect it will do signficantly better than that.

As I've said already, I am interested in having an intelligent debate, but I perceive that a lot of people here are conflating their wishes with their predictions.

[Guardian Bob]

You can do weekly +10 or more mythic dungeons, level up alts, hunt rare mounts, obtain transmog appearnces,

Sounds like a whole lot of not fun. Grind out mythic dungeons. Grid out alts. Grind up useless mounts. Grind up transmog gear. And people thought Classic was grindy.

PvP (and every two weeks PvP brawls happen, and some of them are extremely fun).

PvP is the worst in BfA, ever since they used CRZ on PvP players. People want to gank PVE players not PvP players.

Like it or not, there are a lot of things to do in BfA. Also, endless loot grind? As opposed to run Scholomance for the Nth time to attain exalted with the Argent Dawn or downing BWL bosses with 40 people and obtain 2 pieces of random gear? I see no difference with Classic.

Lots of busy work is still work. When you're done running Scholo, then you're done. No daily Mythic dungeons that you need to do. Those pieces of gear are the best gear in the game. No other way to obtain similar gear without raiding.

Those data are not reliable, and is not a matter of "cross-realms zones". I still find a lot of people from my server, specially if you activate war mode and start doing quests: everything is full of people and you can engage into good old world pvp.

I know the data isn't reliable but neither is your personal experience. Also how do you know it isn't the result of CRZ?

WoW became more casual friendly because players want it to be. Remember what happened when they went back to hardcore heroic dungeons in Cataclysm? Most people hated it. Like it or not, most of WoW's player base is made of casual players, including those who started in vanilla. I've been playing since the original beta and if WoW went back to the old design philosophy I'd cancel my subscription.

Most of WoW's player base doesn't exist anymore. People hated Cata for a number of reasons. I Personally hated it because Blizzard didn't make a new world or continent but selectively patched areas to be new for players. It was just lazy.

Clearly players aren't happy with how WoW turned out and Classic may just bring back the players. You cancelling your subscription is just another brick on the wall. As a person who is currently active in the game, if you can't find a good reason why people left the game then you're in no position to talk. Explain to me why players left the game because you just gave me a bunch of reasons to stay and people clearly aren't staying.

[Yriel]

What would be your basis for assuming they don't come back and play? I played Vanilla all the way from MC - Naxx 40(almost cleared) with the same guild for almost 3 years. I still talk to about 5 or so of those guildies daily and all are excited to be able to go back and play. Everyone I know will be playing Vanilla in varying degrees and different goals. We are all grown with jobs and responsibilities, so of course no one has time to play as much as we did in the past, but it's also not required anymore. We are all much better players now that the challenges back then won't be challenges now. A heroic boss now in retail probably has more mechanics than almost every boss in BWL and MC had. The challenge is mainly managing the people, but even then won't be that bad.

If you enjoy that, more power to you. But i really can't comprehend that, you already did all of this. Do you think doing it again will as exciting as the first time? There are no suprises, you know all the bosses, all the loot, all the raids, all the classes.
I can understand if someone who didn't play classic wants to see it but people who already played it.. well, have already played it.
That's why i, personally, have no interest in the server. I really enjoyed wow back then, met great people, wow was a breath of fresh air after DaoC but i already know all of it. All of the dungeons, all of the quests. I played 4 chars to 60 in classic. I don't know why i should do that again.

[justandulas]

I don't think that's correct. The official petition hit 280K. And it took a few weeks. And it included people like me who don't particularly care about Classic for ourselves but participated out of a sense of solidarity....



What is the server capacity? AFAIK not much more than 5-10K at a time.



Positive feedback regarding the Classic experience is not tantamount to a multi-year commitment to the game. I totally accept evidence of significant interest in people trying out Classic - as I said in a previous post - comparable to the levels seen for WoW expansions. But that is not a basis for making a prediction on the long term interest in the game.



I agree. Although, honestly, I can't see how what I have been writing could be construed as such.

Perhaps to understand my viewpoint better: I support the idea of Classic. And I find it interesting to debate how it will fare. But my expectations of it's popularity are a lot lower than optimists like yourself. That is not to say that I think Classic will fail or that it's not worthwhile. Classic doesn't need to rake in millions of monthly subscribers to make it a worthwhile endeavour. I reckon that a stable base of even as low as 50K would qualify it as a success - and I suspect it will do signficantly better than that.

As I've said already, I am interested in having an intelligent debate, but I perceive that a lot of people here are conflating their wishes with their predictions.

I don't think i was correct either. I don't know where i got the million number from but i definitely heard it somewhere. Maybe a streamer or youtuber brought it up, but i do remember hearing a million signed the petition but the only ones i found online are two separate ones for about 300-400k each. chalk that one to maybe a false memory. Now i'm actually curious where i heard it from...

Anyway, none of us know the server capacity for classic so my guessing would just be speculation... i only know what it felt like to me as a player: jam packed like the good ol' days.

That's true about positive feedback not translating to long term success, and i don't think i'd claim it would either. I've said WoW classic will top BFA in population but probably only short term. It will have a healthy pop of around 250k-1 million for a long time, though i truly believe that. It will surprise people for sure, but live WoW is blizz's bread and butter. No mistaking that. None of our predictions for long term success mean anything because it's all guesses since the only example we have is OSRS to base this off of and that's not really quite the same, but it does provide a nice example of what could be. We have to wait and see my friend.

I think the last part, about creating positivity across wow for both live and classic and between the two crowds starts with all of us. Myself included. Sometimes i let my dissatisfaction with retail WoW and my love (not nostalgia) for classic WoW a little too forward on the forums and that can come off as bashing BFA and it's players (when that is never my intention). I've been beating the drum of "there's enough wow for all of us" more and more lately because, as classic approaches, the animosity between the two WoW factions (irony) is growing and i'm trying to point out that we should all want BOTH to be successful. There's too many insults and personal feelings flying around these forums, and it's ok to disagree on which direction we want WoW to go, or which we like better but there's no need for the childishness and personal attacks we see far too often here and all over the web.

We are all WoW players whether we prefer classic, BFA, or any expac in between... we share that bond. Most gamers will never understand that so we WoW players have been blessed in that regard.

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Clearly players aren't happy with how WoW turned out and Classic may just bring back the players. You cancelling your subscription is just another brick on the wall. As a person who is currently active in the game, if you can't find a good reason why people left the game then you're in no position to talk. Explain to me why players left the game because you just gave me a bunch of reasons to stay and people clearly aren't staying.

You're a wise man GB. I agree 100% about your points, but i highlighted the one that i felt needed addressing the most.

To the people who think BFA is fine, not comparable to WoD and that the people who preach classic > BFA are just haters.... ok then, fine lets say that's all true.... then explain WHY people aren't staying/playing BFA because data says they aren't, MAU says they aren't, and more dead servers than live servers says that as well.

Guild kills are down significantly since Legion, why aren't people playing if BFA is so great?

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If you enjoy that, more power to you. But i really can't comprehend that, you already did all of this. Do you think doing it again will as exciting as the first time? There are no suprises, you know all the bosses, all the loot, all the raids, all the classes.
I can understand if someone who didn't play classic wants to see it but people who already played it.. well, have already played it.
That's why i, personally, have no interest in the server. I really enjoyed wow back then, met great people, wow was a breath of fresh air after DaoC but i already know all of it. All of the dungeons, all of the quests. I played 4 chars to 60 in classic. I don't know why i should do that again.

Because a classic game is a classic game. Vanilla WOW is arguably one of the greatest games of all time. Why on earth WOULDN'T people want to re-experience it in this age where retro gaming is bigger than ever?

On top of that, as someone from the beta, it's just damn fun. It feels like home again in a way the current game hasn't felt in many... many... many... years to me.

It may be all subjective, but i can't see myself ever going back to retail over classic unless retail makes HUGE sweeping changes to appeal to me, which is unlikely in this era where shareholders make the rules for gaming.

[Raelbo]

What would be your basis for assuming they don't come back and play?

Where did I say I assumed anything?

I was questioning a claim, not on the basis that I have some magical evidence to prove some other number, but rather so that I can assess the validity of the claim on its own merits.

To me it seems like little more than a number pulled out of thin air.

I played Vanilla all the way from MC - Naxx 40(almost cleared) with the same guild for almost 3 years. I still talk to about 5 or so of those guildies daily and all are excited to be able to go back and play. Everyone I know will be playing Vanilla in varying degrees and different goals. We are all grown with jobs and responsibilities, so of course no one has time to play as much as we did in the past, but it's also not required anymore. We are all much better players now that the challenges back then won't be challenges now. A heroic boss now in retail probably has more mechanics than almost every boss in BWL and MC had. The challenge is mainly managing the people, but even then won't be that bad.

In my experience, having known many people who have stopped playing WoW over the last decade, there are none who have ever cited as a reason for quitting that they want the game to go back to how it was in Vanilla.

Yes, a small percentage of them stopped playing because they didn't like the direction in modern WoW was headed, but that is not the same thing as wanting it to go back to how it was. Far more people whom I know who stopped playing did so because they were just basically tired of playing the same game for 3 or 5 or 10 or 15 years. Another common theme is changing life circumstances and priorities.

Classic certainly doesn't address the fundamental reasons why almost everyone whom I know personally who stopped playing WoW left the game. So I don't see why Classic would bring them back beyond briefly trying out the game.

I for one don't really care to go hard and clear things fast, but I plan on playing casually and enjoying a great game which it is. Regardless of how old it is and how far games have come, it's still a great game.

I don't disagree with you. But I would point out that I have played many great games in my life that I no longer play. Not because I no longer think they are great, it's just that I have played them to the point where it's time for something else.

As an analogy: The Lord of the Rings is a great book. I have read it, cover to cover, 3 times in my life. I will probably read it again, maybe even more than once. But I'd rather read new books than repeating LotR again and again and again and again.....

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Most of WoW's player base doesn't exist anymore. People hated Cata for a number of reasons. I Personally hated it because Blizzard didn't make a new world or continent but selectively patched areas to be new for players. It was just lazy.

Cata was objectively the most work they have ever put into the game outside of classics original launch. They remade all of the base areas story wise gameplay wise graphic wise as well as making them flying zones which isn’t an on off switch.

Your either hellishly ignorant or delusional there was nothing lazy about the cata world revamp.

[crono14]

If you enjoy that, more power to you. But i really can't comprehend that, you already did all of this. Do you think doing it again will as exciting as the first time? There are no suprises, you know all the bosses, all the loot, all the raids, all the classes.
I can understand if someone who didn't play classic wants to see it but people who already played it.. well, have already played it.
That's why i, personally, have no interest in the server. I really enjoyed wow back then, met great people, wow was a breath of fresh air after DaoC but i already know all of it. All of the dungeons, all of the quests. I played 4 chars to 60 in classic. I don't know why i should do that again.

Well the same can be said for almost any moba or brawler type game. I don't play games like Overwatch or Fortnite, but I have played many other of those types of games. The game is the same every match just you play with different people each time. It's overall repetitive and the same thing every match. People have fun playing those games even though they just do the same thing over and over again right? Well same with WoW Classic. If anything, I only played a warrior in Vanilla, so maybe for Classic I will play a completely different race and class since I never got to. That will pretty much be a new game experience for me. While I do remember all the raids and bosses in those raids, a lot of the leveling journey which was a large part of the gameplay I have forgotten. So people will find their own enjoyment in the game. I don't judge anyone for not playing Classic because they already did it, nor do I judge people for playing Classic because they want to.

[justandulas]

Cata was objectively the most work they have ever put into the game outside of classics original launch. They remade all of the base areas story wise gameplay wise graphic wise as well as making them flying zones which isn’t an on off switch.

Your either hellishly ignorant or delusional there was nothing lazy about the cata world revamp.

Lazy may be the wrong word by GB, personally i'd have called it misguided and unnecessary.

EXAMPLE: Let's say GB or I only have ONE character and no interest in alts. 90% of blizzards rework for cata went to waste for us. Never make the focus of an MMO's expansion NEW player experience that deep into a games life cycle. Focus on who's there and pelasing them.

I still haven't leveled an alt through the cata re-vamped zones. I just won't do it, and there's many players like me who only play ONE character. Alt life just isnt for me.

[crono14]

In my experience, having known many people who have stopped playing WoW over the last decade, there are none who have ever cited as a reason for quitting that they want the game to go back to how it was in Vanilla.

Yes, a small percentage of them stopped playing because they didn't like the direction in modern WoW was headed, but that is not the same thing as wanting it to go back to how it was. Far more people whom I know who stopped playing did so because they were just basically tired of playing the same game for 3 or 5 or 10 or 15 years. Another common theme is changing life circumstances and priorities.

Classic certainly doesn't address the fundamental reasons why almost everyone whom I know personally who stopped playing WoW left the game. So I don't see why Classic would bring them back beyond briefly trying out the game.



I don't disagree with you. But I would point out that I have played many great games in my life that I no longer play. Not because I no longer think they are great, it's just that I have played them to the point where it's time for something else.

As an analogy: The Lord of the Rings is a great book. I have read it, cover to cover, 3 times in my life. I will probably read it again, maybe even more than once. But I'd rather read new books than repeating LotR again and again and again and again.....

I only ever played a warrior in Classic, so being able to go back and play something else will be great for me personally. I guess your again and again and again is re-leveling characters maybe which I might not have time to do.

Of course everyone quits for different reasons, but my friends and people I know at least mostly left after Wrath and stayed really to see the end of the Lich King's story. They didn't like the direction the game was headed in and at the time there were other games doing things better than WoW for what they wanted.