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  1. #1381
    Quote Originally Posted by Enan1981 View Post
    Actually you know what, just thinking about it now. Id really like the prospect or the thought of crossing paths with those old players I played with back in Vanilla...

    Lumina - Night Elf - Andorhal

    Is there a post here somewhere? Where old classic players can post their name and which server they started in?
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post

    No but that’s a brilliant idea that someone needs to take up
    Check out vanillafriends dot com

  2. #1382
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensa1 View Post
    As I said I raided in Vanilla...I repeated content regularly - getting guildees attuned and killing the same bosses with each new lockout - that was called progression...repeating the same content on different difficulty levels (Diablo style and I believe 1st introduced in WoW in Wrath) is a whole different kettle of fish, was what I was referring too and what I don't enjoy.
    Or you stopped enjoying the progression as it is inevitable similar contents followed by similar contents, and blamed it on some unrelated change.

    And you don't have to do the contents on different difficulty levels in BfA; it's just that the option exists - and one could argue that TBC introduced it with ZA.

  3. #1383
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    So now the whole market is niche, you keep moving the goalposts it's hard to keep up. I would agree that the mmo market in general terms is a niche market, but within that market to call retail wow a niche is laughable at best, which was the original intended point no?
    No not at all, I said wow is a niche game because mmo's are and wow is an mmo No goalposts have been moved (10 nu-internet-slang points for using "moving goalposts"). Which you agreed to now, which is nice since it's how it is, yet despite you agreeing with me you still feel the need to disagree because I attacked the game in your opinion. If the market is niche then everything in that market is to an extent. Wow once breached the barrier and became mainstream and well known even in popular and mainstream media, but the hype has long since passed and the game has somewhat faded back into obscurity, back into it's niche.

    You come off as a try-hard fanboi unable and unwilling to engage in a normal conversation because you're fanboi angst overtakes rational thought.

  4. #1384
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodykiller86 View Post
    Classic will just bring in hype numbers because it is the "new" shiny thing on the scene. That will fade fast lol WoWs numbers have always fluctuated or did you forget that Legion was projected to be in the 10million subs range? BFA has its issues but its far from dead. Revenues are down from a multitude of reasons but not soley on WoW. That is related to issues on their other games as well. People have been asking for changes in Overwatch for a while now and Hearthstone has become overly expensive so people are not playing as much and its not easy for new players to get competetive
    Legion was never projected to be in the 10million sub range. Classic is now vital to Blizzard. A sub is required to play classic, and with BFA failing and yes it is pretty much dead, they wont have the cash shop revenue like they did. I think you are greatly underestimating how many want to play classic, how many will come back for classic and how many will actually stay around for it .
    Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

  5. #1385
    Immortal matheney2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P for Pancetta View Post
    No not at all, I said wow is a niche game because mmo's are and wow is an mmo No goalposts have been moved (10 nu-internet-slang points for using "moving goalposts"). Which you agreed to now, which is nice since it's how it is, yet despite you agreeing with me you still feel the need to disagree because I attacked the game in your opinion. If the market is niche then everything in that market is to an extent. Wow once breached the barrier and became mainstream and well known even in popular and mainstream media, but the hype has long since passed and the game has somewhat faded back into obscurity, back into it's niche.

    You come off as a try-hard fanboi unable and unwilling to engage in a normal conversation because you're fanboi angst overtakes rational thought.
    I don't give a damn about the game I only saw you use a word wrong and wanted to interject, nada mas amigo. The mmo genre may be niche in the overal gaming market, but that doesn't mean that wow is a niche game inside of said market. Using your logic gaming in general is a niche market so that means all games are then niche, which means no games are niche? You see how retarded that line of logic is when you break it down? That's all. I don't even play wow atm I'm waiting on classic lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Elba View Post
    Klling a new born is not much morally different than a late term abortion. Should be avoided, but it's not like it is an actual person yet.

  6. #1386
    Quote Originally Posted by Ornith View Post
    whatever, when they announce 8.3 as well as new expansion, people will gladly come back from Classic grinding which by that time will become a horrific experience.
    So perfect timing for them I guess. Classic is only created for dem ppl to pay for subs when retail has content draught anyways.
    Just wait they will be back for 8.1
    Just wait they will be back for 8.1.5
    Just wait they will be back for 8.2...8.2.5 ....8.3

    Look until they fix the core problems with BFA no one will be back in any significant numbers . Odds are, they will come back for a bit, see that he classes and story is shit, go back to classic to play with their friends .

    Classic Grinding had meaning and purpose and was rewarding at least . Nothing in BFA feels rewarding or meaningful. I kill a bunch of Alliance in a W who cares . The only way I can power progress is if I get lucky and a item WF or TF. The raids are meaningless unless you are mythic because the same level gear is out there just for doing a WQ. The story is shit . So what exactly is there to comeback for? Dead guilds? Seeing a bunch of people from phased connected realms that I will never see again? Transmogs?
    Last edited by Dystemper; 2019-06-06 at 07:47 PM.
    Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

  7. #1387
    Quote Originally Posted by Ornith View Post
    whatever, when they announce 8.3 as well as new expansion, people will gladly come back from Classic grinding which by that time will become a horrific experience.
    So perfect timing for them I guess. Classic is only created for dem ppl to pay for subs when retail has content draught anyways.
    Imagine actually saying this unironically.

  8. #1388
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    I don't give a damn about the game I only saw you use a word wrong and wanted to interject, nada mas amigo. The mmo genre may be niche in the overal gaming market, but that doesn't mean that wow is a niche game inside of said market. Using your logic gaming in general is a niche market so that means all games are then niche, which means no games are niche? You see how retarded that line of logic is when you break it down? That's all. I don't even play wow atm I'm waiting on classic lol
    gaming isn't a niche market anymore, gaming is the biggest entertainment market there is at this moment. While the market grew exponentially wow shrunk heavily further consolidating their position as a niche game.

  9. #1389
    Quote Originally Posted by Dystemper View Post
    Just wait they will be back for 8.1
    Just wait they will be back for 8.1.5
    Just wait they will be back for 8.2...8.2.5 ....8.3

    Look until they fix the core problems with BFA no one will be back in any significant numbers . Odds are, they will come back for a bit, see that he classes and story is shit, go back to classic to play with their friends .
    you are overselling classic so hard. Classic has a slew of core problems that will make atleast half of the initial influx of players quit before they get to lvl 40. You need to realize that retail aint what it is today because blizzard just felt like it. The main reason everything is different from vanilla is that people have been asking for changes and those changes ultimately ended up with what we have now. Bfa. there will be players playing wow classic to the end. But that will be a rather small minority. the game doesn't have nearly enough to keep the majority of the players playing.
    If wow classic was released today as a standalone game, it would have had less then 200k players and been a early acces game at best. One of many that simply died off before it got a full release.

    Yes, bfa is doing poorly. Not as poor as some of you classic fanatics claim, but classic will do even worse down the line. And not far into it. vanilla wow has simply not aged well. its not up to 2019 standards and able to give what players today want

    and what is this about people come back for a bit and then immidiately going back to classic ? there is a bunch of other games, its just as likely they join eso, ffxiv or just simply quit, as it is them going back to classic
    Last edited by glowpipe; 2019-06-06 at 07:50 PM.

  10. #1390
    Quote Originally Posted by Dystemper View Post
    Legion was never projected to be in the 10million sub range. Classic is now vital to Blizzard. A sub is required to play classic, and with BFA failing and yes it is pretty much dead, they wont have the cash shop revenue like they did. I think you are greatly underestimating how many want to play classic, how many will come back for classic and how many will actually stay around for it .
    i think you're vastly overestimated Classic staying power lol Its a 15yr old game with many issues that i can list if you want. Even beta at its peak views on twitch have hit anywhere close to BFA's peak which was around 600k lol Obviously theyve dwindled but thats normal in every single expansion. Classic is the new shiny thing this is normal

    1. Slow gameplay (boring in many ways even if you dont agree)
    2. Boring Rotations
    3. Terrible Itemization
    4. Grindy quests for the sake of only being grindy
    5. All Content is already done and completed theres nothing new that we havent seen (and they better NEVER add any)
    6. Lore and story telling are nowhere near the level from WoTLK and onward
    7. Bad graphics (and yes this will annoy some)
    8. Overestimating community stuff (everyone on beta thinks theres tons of people around while leveling for one simple reason, THEY ALL STARTED AT THE SAME TIME)
    9. Raid complexity, no where near current level
    10. Low loot drops, sometimes not even for the class thats available in that faction
    11. Terrible raid tuning
    12. No good LFG tool, having to use trade -_- (not LFR or LFD)
    13. Specs were always cookie cutter only, new trees while boring are way better and situational

    Now dont get me wrong, i loved vanilla back in the day, but as i got older and kept on playing i didnt just ignore all the issues with it. BFA has many issues id like addressed as well but its in no way dead and im playing a bunch every week as well as many others. This isnt an OSRS situation, thats an entirely different type of game

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    you are overselling classic so hard. Classic has a slew of core problems that will make atleast half of the initial influx of players quit before they get to lvl 40. You need to realize that retail aint what it is today because blizzard just felt like it. The main reason everything is different from vanilla is that people have been asking for changes and those changes ultimately ended up with what we have now. Bfa. there will be players playing wow classic to the end. But that will be a rather small minority. the game doesn't have nearly enough to keep the majority of the players playing.
    If wow classic was released today as a standalone game, it would have had less then 200k players and been a early acces game at best. One of many that simply died off before it got a full release.

    Yes, bfa is doing poorly. Not as poor as some of you classic fanatics claim, but classic will do even worse down the line. And not far into it. vanilla wow has simply not aged well. its not up to 2019 standards and able to give what players today want

    and what is this about people come back for a bit and then immidiately going back to classic ? there is a bunch of other games, its just as likely they join eso, ffxiv or just simply quit, as it is them going back to classic
    man we need to talk in discord or something because damn if everything youve just said isnt the damn truth lol so damn tired of everyone acting like vanilla was this perfect game and that its better than everything........theres many reasons for this but its just so damn annoying. Also the thing thats always made me heated is that vanilla private server players and the like have been shitting on live FOR YEARS! and most the time they dont even play live. Cant wait for them to go away one day

  11. #1391
    Quote Originally Posted by Dystemper View Post
    Just wait they will be back for 8.1
    Just wait they will be back for 8.1.5
    Just wait they will be back for 8.2...8.2.5 ....8.3

    Look until they fix the core problems with BFA no one will be back in any significant numbers . Odds are, they will come back for a bit, see that he classes and story is shit, go back to classic to play with their friends .

    Classic Grinding had meaning and purpose and was rewarding at least . Nothing in BFA feels rewarding or meaningful. I kill a bunch of Alliance in a W who cares . The only way I can power progress is if I get lucky and a item WF or TF. The raids are meaningless unless you are mythic because the same level gear is out there just for doing a WQ. The story is shit . So what exactly is there to comeback for? Dead guilds? Seeing a bunch of people from phased connected realms that I will never see again? Transmogs?
    Do you understand that the same can be applied to vanilla?

    While I agree that BfA has many flaws and is far from best WoW expansion... I can't deny that vanilla is simply a "trend". It is being hyped hard right now and it will be popular for first couple of months, maybe half a year. But what's next? Clearing same raid for 6 months? Doing same 2 bgs for two years? Killing a bunch of Alliance in world pvp, who cares? The only way to progress in power is hoping for one item to drop once a week from one boss with 10+ more people contesting it.

    As for raids being meaningless. What if I told you, that you do raids not only for gears, but for fun experience with your friends and your guild.

    The story is shit? What exactly offers Classic after month long grindfest without any interesting story or questline whatsoever?

    Clearing same 3 endgame dungeons and one raid with 40 people? Half of them will drop and you will end up looking for people more than actually playing the game. It will cause exactly the same burnout as BfA.

    Yes, Asmongold hypes it because he has 12 hours per day and 50 people to leech from. But for your ordinary Joe it will be far away from top quality experience.

    While I will try vanilla as well, I only hope for it to become strong platform for blizz to take some ideas and implement them to retail.

    PS: Yea, I agree on CRZ, I hate it as well.

  12. #1392
    Bellular just released a pretty good video on this subject:



    He brings up a couple good points that I've echoed in my arguments for/against Classic vs. BfA. Highlights:

    • Modern WoW is competing against far more "attention grabbing" services, therefore it makes sense that the game has mechanics which favor instant gratification
    • Modern WoW's changes are in-line with how gaming trends have evolved since 2004
    • For example, modern WoW and Activision's other big property, Destiny 2, share a lot of the same DNA; one being a MMO, the other a shooter
    • Classic WoW's popularity is antithetical to the modern WoW due to its playerbase essentially already being "bought-in" to the slower pace

    Bellular, in typical Bellular fashion, doesn't really state his opinion on the matter but personally I think it's hard to look at an open-ended assessment like this and not understand that there's enough broad appeal for both versions that they can coexist with one another without cannibalizing their respective playerbases. The only places that any amount of debate seems to occur is on message boards like this where we have two separate echo chambers competing against one another (pro-Classic vs. pro-retail) to prove their view point is the "real" vision for WoW. The reality is that most people likely care very little one way or another and all Classic really does for the game is provide increased value to the retail WoW subscription.
    Last edited by otaXephon; 2019-06-06 at 08:44 PM.

  13. #1393
    Quote Originally Posted by Ornith View Post
    Do you understand that the same can be applied to vanilla?

    While I agree that BfA has many flaws and is far from best WoW expansion... I can't deny that vanilla is simply a "trend". It is being hyped hard right now and it will be popular for first couple of months, maybe half a year. But what's next? Clearing same raid for 6 months? Doing same 2 bgs for two years? Killing a bunch of Alliance in world pvp, who cares? The only way to progress in power is hoping for one item to drop once a week from one boss with 10+ more people contesting it.

    As for raids being meaningless. What if I told you, that you do raids not only for gears, but for fun experience with your friends and your guild.

    The story is shit? What exactly offers Classic after month long grindfest without any interesting story or questline whatsoever?

    Clearing same 3 endgame dungeons and one raid with 40 people? Half of them will drop and you will end up looking for people more than actually playing the game. It will cause exactly the same burnout as BfA.

    Yes, Asmongold hypes it because he has 12 hours per day and 50 people to leech from. But for your ordinary Joe it will be far away from top quality experience.

    While I will try vanilla as well, I only hope for it to become strong platform for blizz to take some ideas and implement them to retail.

    PS: Yea, I agree on CRZ, I hate it as well.
    huh weird! I'm an "ordinary joe" yet it offers me a top quality experience.

  14. #1394
    I am Murloc! Nnyco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirain1 View Post
    huh weird! I'm an "ordinary joe" yet it offers me a top quality experience.
    Your definition of top quality experience is weird odd then.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  15. #1395
    "They" have been saying "They'll be back" since...well, since I left back after WoD.

  16. #1396
    Dreadlord Alkizon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    FIFA does not, as they understand how make a competitive product (and take bribes).

    The Faroe islands (and Andorra) compete in the FIFA World Cup under the same conditions as France or Brazil (well, in the qualifying rounds at least).
    And if 10+ players is too much FIFA also hosts Beach Football with 5 players on each side (and with other changes as well).

    And FIFA doesn't prevent anyone else from playing either of these games - at their own level
    (you still didn't understand what it means, what is their level = their stage of progress (wich should ≈ content) in expansion, I see that you think that you can hide behind E-sports alike system while you continue misunderstand even it, and which even in originally conceived state is still not applicable to this game; good luck on goof off for you then, I see no reason to validate myself at the expense of miserable people).

    And similarly in other games - you are free to run 100m or marathons outside of the Olympics; and as long as the tournament has a certain level you are competing against the world records.


    I see your vision, and it's a hollow wasteland. (no you don't )
    (And I don't understand the nod to Ulduar - that had at least 4 difficulty levels and wasn't in Vanilla.)
    Ulduar still have only 1 difficulty (players are free to complicate it themselves (but this is done through internal mechanics, and not through complexity choice) if they're in a hurry (so making encounter faster) or want to get a certain bonus, including optional bosses) and you literally understood nothing of FIFA explanation. All this continues to testify only about your absolute lack of understanding about discussed stuff. Strange creature you're
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2019-06-07 at 05:50 AM.
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  17. #1397
    Now its pretty much given. Twitch and Youtube gave WoW Classic an opportunity to spread around the social elements such as drama, epic and funny moments. Retail WoW lacks of it. I dare to say now WoW Classic gonna be more popular than WoW in 2004-5.

  18. #1398
    Quote Originally Posted by Harbour View Post
    Now its pretty much given. Twitch and Youtube gave WoW Classic an opportunity to spread around the social elements such as drama, epic and funny moments. Retail WoW lacks of it. I dare to say now WoW Classic gonna be more popular than WoW in 2004-5.
    You honestly expect wow classic to get over 7.5 million subs ?? Thats... just so not gonna happen EVER

  19. #1399
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakna View Post
    Not a chance, it appeals to a niche market who very much enjoy it but are nevertheless the minority.
    Yeah the same niche market that wow was based on. HRM... We'll see is all I can add. No sense trying to guess.

  20. #1400
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Or you stopped enjoying the progression as it is inevitable similar contents followed by similar contents, and blamed it on some unrelated change.

    And you don't have to do the contents on different difficulty levels in BfA; it's just that the option exists - and one could argue that TBC introduced it with ZA.
    I stopped progression raiding for reasons unrelated to having to kill the same bosses at the beginning of a fresh lockout as you previously contended. You can keep trying to guess why I stopped raiding to justify your stance but it doesn't change the fact that "optional" different difficulty levels of the same content is different from progression raiding in Vanilla.

    For many, such content is unenjoyable and a poor excuse for additional max level content. In fact, it's a cheap cop-out that requires little additional resources and is akin, going back to my original car building analogy, to producing identical cars with slightly more horsepower and calling it a day and otherwise not further differentiating between product lines.

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