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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    I always thought of Patchwerk as a healer's fight, with a serious gear requirement on tanks and healers but not really a particularly tough dps check.
    Now Loatheb I remember being a huge DPS test.
    At least if these old forum screenshots are to be believed.
    Both. If you don't dps fast enough, the healers just run out of mana. Patchwerk was the first encounter that wanted max dps+max hps or your tank would die (oom healers) since he would enrage during the last percents, making it impossible to heal the tanks for a long time.

    I was there, I had my rolling ignite meter - it was a dps race. I also remember the healers going oom, tank dies and dps burning down the last percent from range while Patchwerk cleaved all melees to death.

    I should have made more screenshot back then.
    Last edited by Kryos; 2019-05-20 at 01:11 PM.
    Atoms are liars, they make up everything!

  2. #262
    I'm really looking forward to Classic because I want to revisit all the old zones, quests, the old dungeons how they used to be before they got revamped and do all the old RAID's when they are actually current and useful. And of course you have the community aspect that follows not having flying mounts, LFD, LFR etc.. You are pretty much forced into having a group of friends, having a guild or communicate within the world to really do anything other than normal questing and professions.

    But I'm not one of those who screams for "NO CHANGES!!!!". I really see no point on replicating World of Warcraft Patch 1.12.1 one:tone. There are quite a few quality of life improvements from TBC and WotLK they could implement that wouldn't do anything other than improving the experience and quality of life of the products.

    Like meeting stones not being activated until TBC. Sure it makes Warlocks become much more useful and desirable, but forcing each and every group member to travel to the dungeon entrace before you can begin unless you have a Warlock is just needlessly tedious. Why not have them activated in Classic? What harm would that really do?

    A loot of additional mailboxes was place around in smaller towns throughout the game in TBC so you didn't have to take that long walk to a major town or capitol to read your mail within the game. Would implementing these additional mailboxes really harm the Classic experience?

    Automatic Flight Paths aren't impelementet yet are they? So if you are going to fly from one end of the continent to the other you would have to manually fly from each flight point along the way. You can't just select the one that is your end destination and have it cycle through all the various ones along the way for you. You have to fly from one to the other, then manually select your next destination, rinse and repeate until you arrive at your destination. Is this really necessary, wouldn't it be nice to have the automatic fligh path implemented?

    Same with the automatic tracking of new quests. Do we really need to have it behave stupid like it did in vanilla? Where it doesn't actually do what it says it's going to do? It won't show in your track quests before you actually make progress in the quest. This was fixed in TBC so it will actually automatically add new quests to your tracked quests when you pick them up as it was always intended to do. Why not have this implemented from the get-go? What harm would it do?

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by RamGuy View Post
    Like meeting stones not being activated until TBC. Sure it makes Warlocks become much more useful and desirable, but forcing each and every group member to travel to the dungeon entrace before you can begin unless you have a Warlock is just needlessly tedious. Why not have them activated in Classic? What harm would that really do?
    I think this is a huge one that has to stay, because it keeps the feel of the world as a huge place.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Pretty easy actualy i have done normal dungeons. There was nothing punishing. And i have seen only 1 mechanics in LFR what actualy does wipe raid for entire bfa so again no.
    So you are comparing normal dungeons and lfr that are braindead easy with classic dungeons and raids and u r saying its on par. Tnx for pointing out how easy classic is. Oh and btw total mechanics in all bosses in all raids in classic 117. Mechanics in BOD and COS alone over 120 which at least 70 are one shot mechanics for either player or entire raid.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    So you are comparing normal dungeons and lfr that are braindead easy with classic dungeons and raids and u r saying its on par. Tnx for pointing out how easy classic is. Oh and btw total mechanics in all bosses in all raids in classic 117. Mechanics in BOD and COS alone over 120 which at least 70 are one shot mechanics for either player or entire raid.
    No classic dungeons are actualy harder than normal dungeons and LFR in modern wow. Thats why moder wow will never be harder. Higher difficulty levels are no relevant becouse it is same content. You finished LFR = you finished raid.

    Game difficulty is determined by lowest possible difficulty not highest.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    No classic dungeons are actualy harder than normal dungeons and LFR in modern wow. Thats why moder wow will never be harder. Higher difficulty levels are no relevant becouse it is same content. You finished LFR = you finished raid.

    Game difficulty is determined by lowest possible difficulty not highest.
    lol

    Way to make yourself feel better.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    /snip
    A lot of that goes into the duh category. Self hampering made some encounters more difficult but still, nothing in Vanilla was really hard. Most of the difficulty was what this board would call artificial. Mobs were damage sponges so it took longer. Some bosses required resistance gear and going in with under(300?) Res put you at a sever disadvantage. Monitoring threat was an issue that really could make things hard for today's players, but really was wait 3 sec then go. The length of many dungeons saw groups lose players and have to go back to a city to spam LF1M healer, BRD. Have cookies, punch, and a dental plan.

    Not saying dungeons are any more difficult, but if you go in under geared bottom end of the level range today(full group like that), you are going to struggle a bit.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    lol

    Way to make yourself feel better.
    No it isnt. This is just how most players think about game. Most people after finishing dungeon no matter of difficulty (same for raids) that content is done for them.
    It is like asking if Dark Souls games are challenhing/hard. Most people will instanly tell you yes. And asking if God of War is hard. Most people will tell no becouse you can put game on easy mod and finish game without struggle.

    Existence of easy mods and easy difficulty levels is what makes retail game easy to finish. You want retail to be actauly hard? Remove difficulty levels and have mythic raid as baseline 1 difficulty same for dungeons. Than you can say retail is actualy pretty hard to finish.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by alosiboy View Post
    Please try ignoring every single mechanic on normal difficulty or higher in raiding, see how that works out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Pretty easy actualy i have done normal dungeons. There was nothing punishing. And i have seen only 1 mechanics in LFR what actualy does wipe raid for entire bfa so again no.
    Have another go at answering. Maybe read beforehand.

  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erous View Post
    I'll add that TBC per-nerf heroic dungeons were, imo, the hardest dungeons ever. Nothing like having all melee mobs 360 cleave.
    Shattered Halls Heroic pre-nerf as a melee.

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  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by InTheEnd View Post
    So many supposed vanilla players here saying shit like "vanilla was easy" are harming their credibility. Vanilla was not easy. It wasn't terribly hard, but to say it presented no challenge to the players is a lie. You know how these days you can tag 6+ mobs at once and aoe them down? Nope, couldn't do that in Vanilla. In fact, if you pulled more than 2 at once (for the vast majority of classes) that was a guaranteed death. Yes, even the starting zones and especially next-level zones were much harsher than today. There were areas in Vanilla in the outside world with (usually roaming) elites that if you pulled one, for most classes that was a deathwish. It's ridiculous how people are bending over backwards to say "x and y happened, but it wasn't hard" or "w and z were factors, but it wasn't hard". What exactly do you think determines how difficult something is?
    It reall didn't present a challenge. Pulling 6 mobs was not something anyone did. Most that played previous MMOs would never try this since it would have been a guaranteed death in those games. New players to the genre would understand that one move took long enough to kill in the starting areas that pulling 2 or more was not the way to play. I don't say that is harder or difficult. A fresh 110 with boosted or not raid/catchup gear will get slaughtered with more than 2 mons on them now.

    Roaming elites were challenging I'll give you that, but they were very easy to avoid and not well populated enough to really be a threat.

    And yes, I've been playing since April of 2004 as part of testing. Had a few hour lapse in my subs once in 2006ish when I forgot to update my new card info. I have run everything in this game and it has gotten both easier and more difficult as it goes on. But Vanillas biggest challenge to players was the amount of time it consumed to do most anything, logistics of forming and keeping a group going, and the fact nobody knew anything about anything in the game.

  12. #272
    This is proof that people easily conflate time consuming with being hard. Especially when it comes to old memories.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    No it isnt. This is just how most players think about game. Most people after finishing dungeon no matter of difficulty (same for raids) that content is done for them.
    It is like asking if Dark Souls games are challenhing/hard. Most people will instanly tell you yes. And asking if God of War is hard. Most people will tell no becouse you can put game on easy mod and finish game without struggle.

    Existence of easy mods and easy difficulty levels is what makes retail game easy to finish. You want retail to be actauly hard? Remove difficulty levels and have mythic raid as baseline 1 difficulty same for dungeons. Than you can say retail is actualy pretty hard to finish.
    Like mage tower challenges in legion? Like trial challenge dungeons in wod? Like proving grounds? You mean all this single difficulty which 90% of player base was yelling "omg to hard plz nerf "? Guess who was the ones that were yelling for nerfs. Ppl that never did anything above lfr, the same difficulty classic is.

  14. #274
    Scarab Lord Nnyco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    So pretty much same as modern wow expect you can ignore every single mechanic. Classic have atlest 1.
    When was last time you played? Try ignorin a mechanic on retail and tell me how it gone for ya.
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  15. #275
    They are low level dungeons anyway. They were always easy.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Krekko View Post
    Same thing with the Cata heroics, people slammed how hard they were, people just didn't want to wait for healers to get mana.
    Cataclysm heroics weren't too difficult for players like you and me, but they hit the bell curve like a freight train.

    To the thread: who's making the report? Mythic-hardened, 7-days-week semipros? Still, if dungeons are on the easier side, it benefits a larger portion of the player population -- especially those who may come back after years away.

  17. #277
    Scarab Lord Leotheras the Blind's Avatar
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    They're hard in the sense that you actually had to CC, if that's no longer the case, Blizz fucked up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    Like mage tower challenges in legion? Like trial challenge dungeons in wod? Like proving grounds? You mean all this single difficulty which 90% of player base was yelling "omg to hard plz nerf "? Guess who was the ones that were yelling for nerfs. Ppl that never did anything above lfr, the same difficulty classic is.
    To be fair though, MT challenges were incredibly challenging unless you were lucky to get the right legendary/over geared it. Also, in some cases they were literally impossible unless you had the right legendary.
    Just remember that Leftists actually believe rape isn't as bad as being called a cunt.
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    They don't do that either. There has not been a single instance of tyranny in American history that has been prevented or stopped by guns being a thing.

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    This is proof that people easily conflate time consuming with being hard. Especially when it comes to old memories.
    Every single thing in classic is harder except mythic.

  19. #279
    The playerbase's average skill level is way higher today then it was back in 04-05. I know as I went through leveling my dwarf hunter on beta it was really easy to plan out rotation (not that I had a ton of stuff to use) and also not pull anything more then I wanted to. When I get to dungeon level soon I'm pretty sure they'll be easier as I have a way better understanding of what I'm doing now compared to then.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by lortsy12 View Post
    Every single thing in classic is harder except mythic.
    That's just flat out false.

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