Page 15 of 39 FirstFirst ...
5
13
14
15
16
17
25
... LastLast
  1. #281
    Probably easyer now with 16gb ram than 1gb back in the days and crappy internet provider :P Ofc its obvious that player base now had a lot of bettler knowledge about the game.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    That's just flat out false.
    In retail leveling you can just faceroll and pull tons of mob in the world at the same time without a problem, quests are very streamlined and easy, no need for CC (in dungeons or world) ever, no need for grouping up for world content, professions, lfd and lfr also mount prices and gold. Anyway it doesn't really matter, I think vanilla is just superior game in almost every single aspect than retail.
    Last edited by lortsy12; 2019-05-20 at 12:04 PM.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    No it isnt. This is just how most players think about game. Most people after finishing dungeon no matter of difficulty (same for raids) that content is done for them.
    It is like asking if Dark Souls games are challenhing/hard. Most people will instanly tell you yes. And asking if God of War is hard. Most people will tell no becouse you can put game on easy mod and finish game without struggle.

    Existence of easy mods and easy difficulty levels is what makes retail game easy to finish. You want retail to be actauly hard? Remove difficulty levels and have mythic raid as baseline 1 difficulty same for dungeons. Than you can say retail is actualy pretty hard to finish.
    This is a very dumb argument.

    I don't think anyone can argue that LFR is easy af. Because it is easy af. That's its function. To let players who otherwise wouldn't engage with raids experience the story and encounters.
    Your point is basically: "If the game has an easy mode then the game is default easy. It's fact". Except it is not?
    I played God of War 1-2 on ps2 and I can tell you that they are pretty tough games when you choose the right difficulty. Easy mode in games like these are there so people can experience the story. Titan mode is there to make you cry. I still to this day can't beat the boat boss on titan in GoW2.
    If someone were to ask me whether GoW 1-2 are hard, I'd tell them "on easy its easy, on hard its hard". This is not rocket science. You would tell the same person that "It's easy because the easiest mode in the game is easy and after you did that why would you wanna tackle it on hard for the challenge, you've already done it, are you stupid or what?".

    See the difference?

    In WoW you have 4 raid difficulties and infinite M+ difficulty. Any player who actually plays the game will say that difficulty depends on what type of player you are, and what content you aim to complete.
    There are players who play LFR and understand why it's easy, and then there are players who think that LFR is the pinnacle of the game and refuse to engage in any other form of difficulty because in their eyes they are "done". These players whine about there not being enough content in the game because they did LFR Jaina in 1,5 hours on Sunday.

    Then there is the question how would you rank games like Hearthstone or Leage of Legends or other MOBAS. Those don't have any difficulty setting, it depends on what rank you play at. Would you say that those games are easy because you won a game against bots?

    Your view of the world is alarmingly simple. I'm glad no developer thinks like you.

  4. #284
    There are a lot of contributing factors to why the dungeons feel so easy on beta:
    1. people know what telents to pick for max dps. this wasn't the case in early vanilla since resources were so scarce and the fact that having max level at 30 atm incentivizes picking max dps talents instead of a lot of survivability talents while leveling because you were so scared of dying and having to corpse run for 5 minutes... also no one is meming in shit specs like trying to heal in feral or elemental talents.
    2. people playing on beta and being lvl 30 are not first time players and generally know the dungeons, have keybound every ability, can recognise a cc and know not to break it and interrupt abilities that will put a lot of strain on your healers. healers also know damage patterns and won't spam inefficient heal just because people dip to 70% hp.
    3. the people playing beta are somewhat hardcore and will generally commit to finishing a dungeon they signed up for so you don't have issues like having to four man SMGY because your dps had to help his mom do the laundry and left in the middle of the dungeon and it would take your alliance buddies two hours to reach the instance,,,

    I'm sure there's a lot more that I just can't remember atm.

  5. #285
    Legendary! Deficineiron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Forum Logic
    Posts
    6,511
    stealth nerfs to threat mechanics and mob damage (plus changes to hit vs. higher level mobs, e.g. players killing mobs much, much higher than them) are the most obvious place to look for shenanigans. I am not in the beta, so I only know what I read here or on reddit.

    I will observe that there is very little discussion about the topic itself and more for of what seems like ideological posturing. A lot of these threads on mmo come down to

    " blizzard has the data for 1.12.x, therefore beta is correct" (nevermind the fact A does not have to imply B at all)

    "players are better, therefore they smash through dungeons and chain-pull at level"

    "no player has the data so therefore all (negative) comparisons are either faulty memory or PS comparisons"

    Dungeons were pretty much untouched from 1.12 as as group until 2.3 iirc at which point levels were rationalized within dungeons and they were moderately nerfed. I certainly don't remember seeing groups breeze through any dungeon at level pre-2.3.

    It is no secret I expect blizzard to sneak in stealth nerfs to key mechanics of the game. We will see. I hope I am wrong. if they have made nerfed elite mobs, it is almost certainly by design based on that same 'blizzard has the 1.12 data' premise.
    Last edited by Deficineiron; 2019-05-20 at 01:33 PM.
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, WM Hodgson, Fredrick Brown, Robert SheckleyJohn Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Stephen R Donaldon, and Jack L Chalker.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Overdispersion View Post
    There are a lot of contributing factors to why the dungeons feel so easy on beta:
    1. people know what telents to pick for max dps. this wasn't the case in early vanilla since resources were so scarce and the fact that having max level at 30 atm incentivizes picking max dps talents instead of a lot of survivability talents while leveling because you were so scared of dying and having to corpse run for 5 minutes... also no one is meming in shit specs like trying to heal in feral or elemental talents.
    2. people playing on beta and being lvl 30 are not first time players and generally know the dungeons, have keybound every ability, can recognise a cc and know not to break it and interrupt abilities that will put a lot of strain on your healers. healers also know damage patterns and won't spam inefficient heal just because people dip to 70% hp.
    3. the people playing beta are somewhat hardcore and will generally commit to finishing a dungeon they signed up for so you don't have issues like having to four man SMGY because your dps had to help his mom do the laundry and left in the middle of the dungeon and it would take your alliance buddies two hours to reach the instance,,,

    I'm sure there's a lot more that I just can't remember atm.
    I can name one: buffing up with consumables like it was an end game raid.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by hardtofin View Post
    What do you guys think about this?

    I played vanilla and definitely remember them being as hard if not harder than the levelling. The guys in the beta are reporting levelling being MUCH hard than private servers but dungeons being WAY easier. They are talking about the possibility there was a stealth nerf to dungeons in 1.12

    I hope this wasn't the case as easy dungeons will really suck in classic imo, what do you guys reckon?
    It's the reason they have beta. You can rest assured they are going back to their reference server and comparing damage, health, healing, and interaction.

    Some guys are finding old dungeon run videos form Vanilla and comparing them to Classic and providing feedback.

    It'll get there...

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by zoddzero View Post
    Watching someone stream SFK right now, and if it will stay this easy then you can do dungeons 3-4 man if you want save yourself some loot competition or just can't find 5 peepz.
    Yes? All the 5man dungeons were done as 2-3man parties back in early vanilla. It's accurate.

  9. #289
    Keyboard Turner
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimreaper View Post
    Yes? All the 5man dungeons were done as 2-3man parties back in early vanilla. It's accurate.
    When they originally came out, they were 40 man dungeons. UBRS and Strat would take 40 people. The Plague Ghouls in Strat would one-shot anyone within range of their AE poison. When we started MC I doubt there were more than 2-3 purples in the entire raid.

  10. #290
    I'm confused about the 'it wasn't hard if' comments. The if and countering that if is what makes it hard, isn't it? Or am I wrong on the expectation of what hard entails.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by OGClennisell View Post
    When they originally came out, they were 40 man dungeons. UBRS and Strat would take 40 people. The Plague Ghouls in Strat would one-shot anyone within range of their AE poison. When we started MC I doubt there were more than 2-3 purples in the entire raid.
    Yes, i do remember doing scholomance with 24 players. I also remember doing it with 4 players 2 weeks later. All dungeons up to lvl 50 were 2-3 manned in earliest days of wow by skilled players, while bad players managed to wipe over and over in them with 20+ players.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by lortsy12 View Post
    In retail leveling you can just faceroll and pull tons of mob in the world at the same time without a problem, quests are very streamlined and easy, no need for CC (in dungeons or world) ever, no need for grouping up for world content, professions, lfd and lfr also mount prices and gold. Anyway it doesn't really matter, I think vanilla is just superior game in almost every single aspect than retail.
    Sure, everyone have their own subjective perspective on enjoyment. Vanilla was however mechanically simple and used time as a way to make it seem hard. Sure it's a face roll for most content now, but mechanics are harder and rotations and class knowledge, for dps especially, is more complex than it was in vanilla.

    To sum it up i would say vanilla was simple and not complex at all, but punishing and forced you to take it slow.
    While retail has more depth and complex mechanics but lacking the punishment.

    If they kept the Vanilla punishment with retails mechanics I would be happy. Atm I will choose a more complex gameplay even if it's face roll easy than simple and boring gameplay and being tideuous at it.

  13. #293
    Keyboard Turner
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4
    We ran UBRS 3 times a night for blood for Ony keys - as a 40 man. I think it was harder than people remember. We didn't suck either, I think we were #20 - #25 USA for KT kill. Either way, we enjoyed it 14 years ago as serious business and will enjoy it again as casual players...hope you all do as well.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Pretty easy actualy i have done normal dungeons. There was nothing punishing. And i have seen only 1 mechanics in LFR what actualy does wipe raid for entire bfa so again no.
    Please try reading my post again.

  15. #295
    Pandaren Monk Cidzor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Right behind you
    Posts
    1,839
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    Classic WAS fucking easy, people were just clueless back then.
    This. Dungeons were hard to me back then because I keyboard turned, clicked, and had no idea what was going on. And most of the other people in my groups probably didn't know what was going on either. I'm also going to be playing with guildies this time. I'm pretty sure I'll be steamrolling a lot of content that took me hours the first time.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Cidzor View Post
    This. Dungeons were hard to me back then because I keyboard turned, clicked, and had no idea what was going on. And most of the other people in my groups probably didn't know what was going on either. I'm also going to be playing with guildies this time. I'm pretty sure I'll be steamrolling a lot of content that took me hours the first time.
    This is true, but after 1 year of playing i bet that you learned how to use some macros, or realized that you could have been efficient binding your keys.
    Just think about the hunter epic quest and the backward jumpshot

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N3BlF-x-to

    I do agree that we could be steamrolling a lot of content, but I am also sure that, given the people I happened to see in retail ( pvp, wpvp, m+, n/h dungeons, lfr, etc... ), wipes won't be that rare as we could think.

    Probably many players from retail could find themselves dead or unable to beat some content, at least at the beginning.

  17. #297
    Classic was always trivally easy. It was just artifically hard because everyone sucked. Your typical LFR raider in BFA is likely much better than a world first raider in classic.

  18. #298
    People who play WoW find easy content easy? How surprising.

  19. #299
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Russia, Chelyabinsk (Tankograd)
    Posts
    13,622
    Quote Originally Posted by hardtofin View Post
    What do you guys think about this?

    I played vanilla and definitely remember them being as hard if not harder than the levelling. The guys in the beta are reporting levelling being MUCH hard than private servers but dungeons being WAY easier. They are talking about the possibility there was a stealth nerf to dungeons in 1.12

    I hope this wasn't the case as easy dungeons will really suck in classic imo, what do you guys reckon?
    dungeons were never hard. Hardest part of dungeon is making a group and keeping it together
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Dergiab View Post
    You honestly think that classic dungeons are easier than their retail versions?
    The hardest content in vanilla was about as hard as the average HC dungeon is on retail (with gear appropriate for that difficulty). Actually, HC dungeons are probably harder now in most cases. 90% of all bosses were just tank and spank and even when the newer ones came out you had to deal with like one or two abilities that usually were just - Don't stand in that!
    Vanilla has nothing that comes even close to m+ or mythic raids these days.

    The game was a joke and so is classic going to be. It's a huge time sink but nothing is even remotely difficult.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    I dont know man. Today i can just press button and finish entire wow content while ignoring 99% of all mechanics.
    No, you can't. You have clearly not experienced much of retails endgame content.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •