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  1. #301
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alosiboy View Post
    Please try ignoring every single mechanic on normal difficulty or higher in raiding, see how that works out.
    just don't get targeted by any mechanics or play bm kappa

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryos View Post
    I should have made more screenshot back then.
    One thing to notice about vanilla/retail was that in classic many players used those cosmetic UI addons, with diablo style mana/hp globes taking up to 50% of your screen. On retail you have... weak auras for encounter stuff and maybe procs, maybe a bar of skills if you didn't memorized everything yet. Says a lot of how much awareness you need now compared to vanilla.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    Like mage tower challenges in legion? Like trial challenge dungeons in wod? Like proving grounds? You mean all this single difficulty which 90% of player base was yelling "omg to hard plz nerf "? Guess who was the ones that were yelling for nerfs. Ppl that never did anything above lfr, the same difficulty classic is.
    Lfr isnt same difficulty as classic.. And yeah those people whined. Why you thonk bfa is in state it is? Becouse Blizzard listen to such players all the time.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    just don't get targeted by any mechanics or play bm kappa
    Lol, didn't see that bm are going to have bestial wrath till the beginning.
    Thought that they only fucked up with druids, but they didn't let me down

    Also surv won't have lacerate ( also endgame talent trees for paladins, priests, and so on ).

    This classic is a total mess...

    Now I think I understand why dungeons seem in effect easier than those who are playing remember...
    Last edited by Gatto; 2019-05-20 at 03:19 PM.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    It reall didn't present a challenge. Pulling 6 mobs was not something anyone did. Most that played previous MMOs would never try this since it would have been a guaranteed death in those games. New players to the genre would understand that one move took long enough to kill in the starting areas that pulling 2 or more was not the way to play. I don't say that is harder or difficult. A fresh 110 with boosted or not raid/catchup gear will get slaughtered with more than 2 mons on them now.

    Roaming elites were challenging I'll give you that, but they were very easy to avoid and not well populated enough to really be a threat.

    And yes, I've been playing since April of 2004 as part of testing. Had a few hour lapse in my subs once in 2006ish when I forgot to update my new card info. I have run everything in this game and it has gotten both easier and more difficult as it goes on. But Vanillas biggest challenge to players was the amount of time it consumed to do most anything, logistics of forming and keeping a group going, and the fact nobody knew anything about anything in the game.
    What grinds my gear the most is this "you couldn't pull 2 mobs and not die!" argument. Off course you could, but why would you want to do that? It's not like you are going to kill them any faster this way. Now if i play a mage i will pull giant trains of mobs just because i have so much cleave to take them down fast, pulling them one by one would be akin to trying to pull giant trains of mobs on classic - it's not effective way of doing things. When i leveled rogue on classic i definitely pulled bunch of mobs because i had blade fury and evasion (and when i accumulated enough gear to DPS them even faster i could easily pull trains of mobs with just health potions)
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Skorpionss View Post
    Early dungeons were always easy, provided you had decent players that could CC, and a tank that could hold aggro and let the healer have MBs. They do get harder as you level up though.
    No, they really don't. They are all easy and you really don't need CC either.

  6. #306
    Dreadlord Alkizon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    --- snip ---
    These are echoes of discussion "content vs progress". You can read about it here+, here and here+ if you really interested.

    tl;dr Obtaining end game's content is easier on retail, but its end progress on retail almost unobtainable since is mostly RNG or @$$-hours based (this is if generally omit details).

    It remains only to find out what exactly you're trying to compare
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2019-05-20 at 03:24 PM.
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  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatto View Post
    Lol, didn't see that bm are going to have bestial wrath till the beginning.
    Thought that they only fucked up with druids, but they didn't let me down

    Also surv won't have lacerate.

    This classic is a total mess...
    It's pre-TBC classic, it's fine.

    hunters in pvp are nightmare for clothies tho. Having that giant red cat popping right next to you out of stealth with like 200% speed and immune to CC (or just 200 fucking frost resist), she'll just munch you to death with hunter laughing at you and popping viper sting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  8. #308
    I am Murloc! Nobleshield's Avatar
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    The only real question here is if you can chainpull/not CC. That means it's too easy. Anything else and it's likely accurate. While WoW players of today might just pull entire packs and AOE them down that's not traditionally something you can do in games. Hell in old EQ (or Project 1999) even pulling something your level, god forbid higher, was likely a death sentence if you were solo unless you were one of the classes that could kite or root-rot.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    It's pre-TBC classic, it's fine.

    hunters in pvp are nightmare for clothies tho. Having that giant red cat popping right next to you out of stealth with like 200% speed and immune to CC (or just 200 fucking frost resist), she'll just munch you to death with hunter laughing at you and popping viper sting.
    It's not fine.
    It's not the vanilla experience and now as I wrote before in a edit, I think I understand why dungeons seem to be easier than people remember

    Many classes have different talents and are definitely more viable:

    - Druids
    - Paladins
    - Hunters
    - Priests

    Those four because of ultimates

    And any class because of better talent trees ( you can compare here if you like http://www.classicwowtalents.appspot...ent=11215875_7 )

    Definitely a bad thing to start with those talents tree from the beginning.
    They are still in time to change their mind.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overdispersion View Post
    There are a lot of contributing factors to why the dungeons feel so easy on beta:
    1. people know what telents to pick for max dps. this wasn't the case in early vanilla since resources were so scarce and the fact that having max level at 30 atm incentivizes picking max dps talents instead of a lot of survivability talents while leveling because you were so scared of dying and having to corpse run for 5 minutes... also no one is meming in shit specs like trying to heal in feral or elemental talents.
    2. people playing on beta and being lvl 30 are not first time players and generally know the dungeons, have keybound every ability, can recognise a cc and know not to break it and interrupt abilities that will put a lot of strain on your healers. healers also know damage patterns and won't spam inefficient heal just because people dip to 70% hp.
    3. the people playing beta are somewhat hardcore and will generally commit to finishing a dungeon they signed up for so you don't have issues like having to four man SMGY because your dps had to help his mom do the laundry and left in the middle of the dungeon and it would take your alliance buddies two hours to reach the instance,,,

    I'm sure there's a lot more that I just can't remember atm.
    You won't be picking any dungeon talents while leveling. You can heal in feral up to 50+ dungeons as long as you have enough int gear.

    you don't have to have keybinds in vanilla, you can click your way through almost everything. The only class that "requires" skill in classic is a tank, simply because there is no aoe threat generation so you have to prioritize your sunders. It gets even harder when you have cocky dps in your group.

    people going afk during dungeon runs are a thing both on retail and classic, they are extremely rare but there is no workaround against that.


    bottom line is - dungeons won't magically get harder in classic because more people will play the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  11. #311
    PvE content in classic was difficult by 2004 standards; that's to say a much younger playerbase with poor access to good information, fewer and less reliable addons, and no experience. Sure there were some people, myself included who had come from older games like Everquest, Lineage, DaoC and so on, but none of those were hard by modern standards either.

    Most people in Classic had suboptimal builds, few or no addons, and didn't keybind.

    We are now almost 15 years on from WoW's initial release. Not only has the average age of the playerbase increased, there are also many players who have over a decade's worth of experience. On top of that, we have a bunch of easily accessible resources and theorycrafting tools which people are expected to use as standard in order to understand both class and encounter mechanics, as well as to optimise their characters' output. The result (and Blizzard themselves have stated this explicitly on a number of occasions) is that the difficulty of the top-end content in the game has had to increase substantially in order to compensate for the increase in the skill and creativity of the playerbase.

    From a purely mechanical perspective, Mythic Champion of the Light is a more complex raid encounter than Ragnaros in Vanilla. Something like M Jaina would have been completely unthinkable. Vanilla needs a lot of preparation as far as resistances, consumables and so on, but compared to what we're used to there's almost nothing that requires any skill.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    No, they really don't. They are all easy and you really don't need CC either.
    The worst that can happen in vanilla dungeons is your tank not understanding how threat works, will constantly pull packs with 0 rage, because he didn't saved enough, will dump rage on heroic strikes and rends.

    Or your DPS players will go full retard and don't understand how threat works, that dumb warlock won't stop throwing agony on everything, pulling stuff off the tank because he didn't hit everyone with sunders yet (misses, dodges, parries) and he won't be able to reach a mob (taunt range and resist) that runs towards that warlock who proceeds to run away.

    Often it won't wipe your group if at least someone knows what to do, but it's definitely going to be annoying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  13. #313
    Dreadlord Alkizon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    You can heal in feral up to 50+ dungeons as long as you have enough int gear.
    That's mostly because of "classes(mechanics&abilities)>talents(build)>characteristics(items=role)" design philosophy.
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2019-05-20 at 03:54 PM.
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  14. #314
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatto View Post
    It's not the vanilla experience and now as I wrote before in a edit, I think I understand why dungeons seem to be easier than people remember
    I was saying that since the announcement, it's not going to be exact vanilla experience, it's impossible to recreate it and people should tone down their hype
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    I was saying that since the announcement, it's not going to be exact vanilla experience, it's impossible to recreate it and people should tone down their hype
    Yeah, I feel like what people really want is sort of a WoW 2.0. Clean slate, no cross-realm functionality, a return to traditional RPG elements and a fresh world/story to discover. Reading between the lines it seems like that's what people hoped Classic would be, but of course that was never a possibility.

  16. #316
    Dungeons were hard 15 years ago because people didn't have a clue.

    I started playing with a regular 2 button mouse and clicked most of my spells. I spammed serpent sting until level 30 because apparently I couldn't read or just had a seriously limited understanding of any mechanic in the game. I didn't know there was an auto run button until BC, I literally sat there and held down "w" to get everywhere (for 2 years). The first time I did ZG the RL typed out the strat for every boss via raid warning because people didn't even know what vent was much less have it downloaded. The hardest part of raiding was getting 40 people with a decent internet connection on at the same time. These are just the nooby things that I can remember, I'm sure there way waaay more that I was totally oblivious to.

    Today's players don't have ANY of these issues much less all of them. Classic will be so much easier then people remember because they've improved so much more than they realize.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    I was saying that since the announcement, it's not going to be exact vanilla experience, it's impossible to recreate it and people should tone down their hype
    Me too, but i thought it was only something given to druids to be more viable.
    I clearly misunderstood.

    However I do accept that the feeling could be somehow different, as anybody else I guess, but stuff like talents is not an excuse.

    The fact that it won't be like the old classic is thing, but pushing towards that direction is clearly giving a duck about those who really wanted vanilla back.

  18. #318
    On top of everything that was said on this thread, the guys that are doing this are not "new players" and arguably nobody that Will play classic is a "new player". The dungeons are the same that we've been doing while leveling, for 15 years. Yes, you have to autoattack now, but still.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    No thats exactly what do not matter. Content is content and new difficulty is not new content.
    It is bosses get new abilities and work differently that is new... Thank you playing and than trying to deflect 100iq play my guy.
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  20. #320
    Legendary! Deficineiron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    The only real question here is if you can chainpull/not CC. That means it's too easy. Anything else and it's likely accurate. While WoW players of today might just pull entire packs and AOE them down that's not traditionally something you can do in games. Hell in old EQ (or Project 1999) even pulling something your level, god forbid higher, was likely a death sentence if you were solo unless you were one of the classes that could kite or root-rot.
    correct. this is a pretty objective standard which no one is even addressing.
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