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  1. #341
    If you knew what you were doing, these dungeons were easy. People try to pretend like classic was so much harder because it makes them feel like they weren't as big of nubs as they rly were (and probably still are). When I leveled up in classic, I leveled with a bunch of people who knew MMORPGs, and we started less than 2 weeks after release. We pretty much steamrolled dungeons and leveling was a breeze overall. Things were more time consuming, but that was about it. Nowadays people are even more knowledgeable than my group was back then, especially on the beta where you don't even have the occasional Casual Joe slip into your group, pulling extra packs left and right, and making shit seem harder. If this seems strange to you, you probably were Casual Joe, fucking shit up, making everything seem harder and that's why your memory of classic difficulty is so inflated.
    Last edited by BananaHandsB; 2019-05-20 at 07:04 PM.

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    In other news classic WoW was actually easy and it was just the players that where bad at the time.

    Friendly reminder that when WoW originally launched it was actually the most casual and easy MMO on the market and that's how it gained mass appeal and separated itself from the pack in the first place.

    It's almost like people have been telling you for years there was nothing hard about it, it just lacked QoL features that would be added later. Classic was easier then retail currently is(and probably every xpac for that matter), it just didn't respect your time at all.
    In other words “you think you do, but you don’t”

  3. #343
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you.
    Which dungeons? Scholo, BRD, UBRS? Or do you mean RFC and DM*? We need some context here.

    As for the people saying it was never hard. Yeah, that could apply to the entire game or even to the entire MMO genre. Everything in this genre is doable if you use your abilities and pay attention to the content. I'd argue difficulty in this genre is measure by requiring you to do just that. As long as everyone was actually getting involved with the run everything should go smoothly. That's something that doesn't exist in current WoW, you can just do content besides the top end completely absentmindedly.

    *To the people getting triggered DM means deadmines unless you specify a wing : )
    "I have the most loyal fanboys. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand by Thoradin's Wall and massacre my own people and I wouldn't lose any fanboys. It's like incredible." - Sylvanas Windrunner

    "If you kill your enemies, they win." - Anduin Wrynn

  4. #344
    Herald of the Titans Synros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    The Shadowlands
    It's almost like it's a fucking BETA, and the number aren't properly tuned yet.......


  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    what about people who had no problem raiding highest difficulties in past but simply cba anymore because how many years doing hardmodes can be fun ?

    because i know fuckton of people like this

    and regarding vanilla - if you played back then you would know how ridiculed WoW was exackly because of how easy it was compared to Everquest or Ultima Online
    Maybe so, but I also played Everquest 2 and that wasn't hard either by modern standards. Besides, WoW popularised the genre and most people weren't MMORPG veterans.

    I'm really fine with people playing any difficulty. You do you hun, etc. My point is that being unable or unwilling to do content which nonetheless exists doesn't give a person an excuse to bitch about there being no content. What they really mean is that there isn't the specific content that they want. There's a difference.

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Naxx had low particiation becouse of TBC.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Nobady = vast majority. We are not talking exact numbers. Thats cool there are some people enyoj playing with difficulty slider but such thing do not belongs into mmorpg game. And you cant make comparisons of highest difficulty of bfa to 1 difficulty of classic. Becouae thats not how are games with difficulty settings determined. If i can press 1 button and finish your game afk while watching youtube your game is in fact easy.
    You said nobody cares but there are people who run and still run it which means it's not a waste. I was pointing out the vast majority of people playing vanilla on launch didn't care about raiding. The easy difficulty of the game is easy yes but it's not the beating the game in the way developers intended which is kind of the point.
    Violence Jack Respects Women!

  7. #347
    Shockingly, a 15 year old game that was mostly played by clueless 12 year olds back then is now considered easy by the now 30 y/o people who now know everything inside out.

    Even surprised Pikachu wouldn't be surprised by this shit.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Synros View Post
    It's almost like it's a fucking BETA, and the number aren't properly tuned yet.......
    Actually numbers don't need tuning. Its not BfA, its copy of vanilla. Numbers are taken from vanilla.

    What you are missing is those are low level dungeons. Low level dungeons have always been easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mistame
    Most people are imbeciles. Twitter is just a way for them to demonstrate it.

  9. #349
    Things didnt scale to level back then so getting a lvl 30 in deadmines because his weird ass wanted to show off made the dungeon a joke. Also we didnt have to start ccing mobs till around zf

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Elkfingers View Post
    I miss the glory days of MMORPGs loads, and it's such a shame that in all this time nothing has come even remotely close to creating the kind of experience that WoW and EQ2 provided at launch.

    There's clearly a demand for old school MMOs but pretty much every recent effort has been terrible. I remember a while back Blizzard were developing a new MMO, which was eventually abandoned before they used the assets to create Overwatch - Even though it's super unlikely, I do lowkey hope that they're trying to find something which is solid enough to replace WoW. The constant changes in retail with systems getting designed, scrapped and reworked constantly would make so much more sense if they were pretty much using retail as a huge beta for potential ideas. What if the reason development resources were being allocated to classic was in part to gauge the response of modern audiences to a slower paced, story-driven RPG over the instant gratification of retail? Potentially a testing ground for layering technology as well.

    It's wishful thinking at best and completely making shit up at worst, but I'd love to see another proper MMORPG.

    In fairness, Mythic does make the fights significantly more difficult. In fact I would argue that Mythic is the starting point for encounter design, and then Heroic and Raid Finder difficulties are created via a process of taking abilities away. As a result LFR bosses are completely pointless and there's no discernable character to any of the fights, where Heroic still feels incomplete. The encounters only really make complete sense on Mythic where the pacing, stakes and interactions of all the mechanics are as intended.

    You're right though. It's not new content as such, but that's exactly why LFR especially should not exist. There's a fair case for getting rid of Heroic too, and the reason is the same - it's an easier version of the available content, so it doesn't last as long. People do the easy versions to see said content, but the challenge alone doesn't motivate them so they call it a day. That's a real problem, and the only solution is to take the easy versions away so that if people want to experience all of the content, they have to also step up. I guarantee we would see a massive uptick in Mythic participation were it the only way to ever see the fights.
    To be accurate, they design Heroic mode first, then MM, then NM then LFR.

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    The hardest content in vanilla was about as hard as the average HC dungeon is on retail (with gear appropriate for that difficulty). Actually, HC dungeons are probably harder now in most cases. 90% of all bosses were just tank and spank and even when the newer ones came out you had to deal with like one or two abilities that usually were just - Don't stand in that!
    Vanilla has nothing that comes even close to m+ or mythic raids these days.
    That a ridiculous comparison, comparing pre-30 dungeons to Mythic+. Do you honestly think that retail Wailing Caverns for example are harder than Classic Wailing Caverns?

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by Xlightning View Post
    Stratholme was also easy. Everything in Vanilla was easy. The 2004 average player was simply way worse than today's average player. This has been said millions of times because it is a fact. People still doubt it.
    Yeah I don't understand where the idea that going back and doing something you already did many times before it's suddenly going to be hard again. It's just like Dark Souls yeah it's a hard game but after you beat it a few times it's going to get a lot easier for you just because you know what your doing and where to get the good items fast. Hell people have beaten Dark Souls with out even getting hit once.

  13. #353
    Try soloing deadmines in all quest greens as a level 30 Holy Paladin. I wasn't able to beat Mr. Cleef in vanilla retail, and it took me over an hour to make it to him. This was me coming from playing Final Fantasy XI for two years at this point (and I played a Red Mage, which played almost identical to a Holy Paladin), I want to say I was pretty efficient back then. Too bad I can't play Beta, would like to try it.

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by Itori View Post
    Things didnt scale to level back then so getting a lvl 30 in deadmines because his weird ass wanted to show off made the dungeon a joke. Also we didnt have to start ccing mobs till around zf
    Kind like grabbing a few 390+ people in queue for a m0.

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    These are echoes of discussion "content vs progress". You can read about it here+, here and here+ if you really interested.

    tl;dr Obtaining end game's content is easier on retail, but its end progress on retail almost unobtainable since is mostly RNG or @$$-hours based (this is if generally omit details).

    It remains only to find out what exactly you're trying to compare
    Man I wish I could understand what you just said here. I won't mock your English but damn.
    I won't read other random links. If you have anything to discuss please discuss here.

  16. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by Elkfingers View Post
    You're missing the point. LFR, Normal and Heroic are more accessible versions of Mythic raiding. Mythic is the content, the other difficulties are there for less skilled players to see the cutscenes.

    If you're not motivated by the challenge of doing content the way it was intended to be done, then that's on you. It is still content that exists, that I play, and that I enjoy. Mythic progression gives me plenty to do, and if LFR is all you can tackle then that's ok, but you don't get to complain just because you either can't or won't attempt anything more challenging.

    The fact is that if you had ever progressed Mythic content you would know that it is, in fact, substantially different and a lot of work goes into making it. You don't attempt it and complain that it reuses the same assets, which is for one only partly true, and for two is fucking ignorant. It's not just a difficulty slider. There are new mechanics, new adds, existing mechanics function differently, and everything has more significant interactions. The fights are literally not the same fights.
    Dude i was in hardcore progression guild till end of Cata. And things like LFR and difficulty levels completly killed my interest in above LFR content. Challenge is pretty poor motivation. It should be part of content but never goal. For majority of players goal is to defeate bosses and get loot. I can defeate bosses in LFR and i can get loot from faceroll world q. I wont do content what offers nothing but challenge. Remove everything below mythic raiding. Remove mythic+ and give us proper megadungeon classic style. With difficulty of mythic10 and i will be interested in retail content again. But as long as game offers easy mods and acessible difficulty levels without any exclusivity. I just wont care.

  17. #357
    People were noobs who didn't have every little detail off the game readily available (or they just didn't bother to look it up from third party sites). This is how I played vanilla, it wasn't until TBC or WotLK that I got good at the game.

  18. #358
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Russia, Chelyabinsk (Tankograd)
    Quote Originally Posted by Elkfingers View Post
    Maybe so, but I also played Everquest 2 and that wasn't hard either by modern standards. Besides, WoW popularised the genre and most people weren't MMORPG veterans.
    Actually EQ2 was quite hard (even by modern standard since you had to do a lot of non-matchmaked-community-related things to get anywhere), simply because it was unforgiving and you actually could lose a lot. Like, literally hours of your time going down the drain. But some people are fine with that since eve online is still huge. WoW also was a new kid on the block, it filled the niche people wanted to be filled by being more respectful with players time and adding new things to MMORPG genre, so being an "MMORPG veteran" didn't help you that much in case of wow, we even had one very cocky guy in our guild who came from lineage to wow, was constantly bragging how miss-easy game is, but quit it at level 30-40 because he didn't enjoyed it. You know why? He applied his MMORPG veterancy to WoW and just grinded the fuck out of mobs until they were green, then moved to new location and did the same thing. No dungeons. Barely any quests, just grinding, herbing to get money and buying shit from AH.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by Elkfingers View Post
    Fair point. I do get that not everyone can compete at a certain level. I guess it's kind of frustrating to have people flat out refuse to even attempt difficulties beyond LFR and them complain that there's nothing left to do.
    Honest question: are these the kind of players you actually want in your Heroic+ raids?

    Fuck knows I don't. Let them stay in LFR if they wish so, I'll stay in my difficulty. Makes them happy and makes no difference to me.

  20. #360
    Give me WC3:R, Blizz! The Stormbringer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    ...location, location!
    Quote Originally Posted by Synros View Post
    It's almost like it's a fucking BETA, and the number aren't properly tuned yet.......
    There isn't, nor will there be tuning, as people have said. The numbers are coming directly from a database. The only things that might need it are the occasional ability or mob that's bugged in some way, causing its numbers to be off.

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