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  1. #401
    Classic requires patience, not skill.

  2. #402


    Kaivax posted on reddit this.
    Explains a lot for all Horde players.

    Doesnt explain Alliance side.

  3. #403
    Dungeons were difficult back then because the players were extremly bad and unexperienced. I didnt use hotkeys until 2 years after i hit max level.

    Nowadays everyone is SO MUCH BETTER. At least half of the group knows the mechanics - and for most part they know how WOW works.

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Dungeons were difficult back then because the players were extremly bad and unexperienced. I didnt use hotkeys until 2 years after i hit max level.

    Nowadays everyone is SO MUCH BETTER. At least half of the group knows the mechanics - and for most part they know how WOW works.
    i didn't start keybinding until like halfway through legion, and i've been playing since wotlk. i'm still not that great.

    but yeah, classic isn't about the dungeons being hard. it's about the journey to get there. if the little twitch cancer pustules go in with the same mentality that caused mythic+ on live, they'll either quit within a couple months, or cause blizzard to make non-classic changes.
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  5. #405
    low level dungeons were easy, I saw a guy tanking with a two hander in prot spec scarlet monastry.
    try to pull that shit without a single cc in ubrs and we can talk again.

    still though, they were mostly time consuming not too hard. a full brd would take very very long hours.

  6. #406
    Titan Aggrophobic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    The worst that can happen in vanilla dungeons is your tank not understanding how threat works, will constantly pull packs with 0 rage, because he didn't saved enough, will dump rage on heroic strikes and rends.

    Or your DPS players will go full retard and don't understand how threat works, that dumb warlock won't stop throwing agony on everything, pulling stuff off the tank because he didn't hit everyone with sunders yet (misses, dodges, parries) and he won't be able to reach a mob (taunt range and resist) that runs towards that warlock who proceeds to run away.

    Often it won't wipe your group if at least someone knows what to do, but it's definitely going to be annoying.
    Sure, that can happen. But in a group that knows how the game works you just walk all over the content. Even more so in vaniolla than now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dergiab View Post
    That a ridiculous comparison, comparing pre-30 dungeons to Mythic+. Do you honestly think that retail Wailing Caverns for example are harder than Classic Wailing Caverns?
    Leveling dungeons? Who cares? But with the right gear there is not much difference. Your class might lack som of the tools needed to clear it as fast as today and you do lack things such as looms but in general, the game is super easy.

    But again, nothing in vanilla even comes close to the raids and dungeons we have today in endgame. And lest be real: WoW is and was always about the max level expereince. Whatever comes befor that is a pointless time sink.

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Sure, that can happen. But in a group that knows how the game works you just walk all over the content. Even more so in vaniolla than now.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Leveling dungeons? Who cares? But with the right gear there is not much difference. Your class might lack som of the tools needed to clear it as fast as today and you do lack things such as looms but in general, the game is super easy.

    But again, nothing in vanilla even comes close to the raids and dungeons we have today in endgame. And lest be real: WoW is and was always about the max level expereince. Whatever comes befor that is a pointless time sink.
    The bolded part might possibly be the most disconnected comment ive ever read about vanilla WoW lol. Sure today its all about max level raids and item level, but in the the vanilla era it was all about the journey and dungeons/pvp were far more popular activities than raids.

  8. #408
    Titan Aggrophobic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    The bolded part might possibly be the most disconnected comment ive ever read about vanilla WoW lol. Sure today its all about max level raids and item level, but in the the vanilla era it was all about the journey and dungeons/pvp were far more popular activities than raids.
    No, leveling was crap back then, just as it is now. The goal was always to get to max level as fast as possible and get to do the raids and BG's.
    At least for me and the people I played with.

    But thats matters little. The original statment still stands: Vanilla was super easy. You just sucked.

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    The bolded part might possibly be the most disconnected comment ive ever read about vanilla WoW lol. Sure today its all about max level raids and item level, but in the the vanilla era it was all about the journey and dungeons/pvp were far more popular activities than raids.
    Is that why everyone remembers Nihilum, Death and Taxes, Curse and a few other big raiding guilds from the first days till a couple expansions after and their world firstyness and only certain people per server know the "PvPers" with the occasional stupid ass youtube "PvP" video?

    99% of players sucked in Vanilla as they suck now.

    WoW has always been about raiding, everything before is a pointless waste of time, they just have dungeons too, not everything can be a raid.
    Last edited by potis; 2019-05-21 at 04:30 AM.

  10. #410
    Vanilla dungeons had several redeeming qualities, but many think they were mostly time-consuming and confusing to navigate. Let me take you back to a different era...

    You can't talk about old school dungeons without mentioning Blackrock Depths. Crocolisk Brain. The dark iron city was a piece of art; players would visit the underground maze many times before they reached max level, and again later on. Layered exploration was the name of the game, as you would unlock a bit more content everytime you revisited the instance.

    Once I was thinking of making a list of all the things its used for, shit you can do and use it for in all kind of shenaningans, and its mindboggling really, how many stuff there is. and the more you play vanilla the more you know all the application, from various farms and applications for different classes, various routes, stealth runs, arena runs, arena random bosses spawn is really interesting and unique on its own, lava runs, ace of elems farm, regs for different things, dark iron ore runs, blacksmithing forge, enchant regs, recipes, bag, bis items, t0.5 chain and so on. a lot more. its literally INSANE.

    ...and that's how it was back then. Strange, isn't it?
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  11. #411
    Classic dungeons and raids weren't hard as far as mechanics, players were just dumb or new to the game. This was back when not standing in the fire was an actual problem rather than a light hearted joke. A big downside of classic servers is that the state of the game has been brought back, but that sense of discovery, wonder, and a general lack of the game's knowledge can never be revived or reverted. There are thousands of guides on every aspect of the game from vanilla to modern, everyone has fully explored all ends of Azeroth and beyond, communities are much less disjointed and disconnected from each other now, and we as players are a lot smarter about the ins and outs of the game, especially with instance mechanics.

    WoW is far too meta now in gameplay and development, so everything is a lot easier than nostalgia boys remember it. Also it's beta, it could be a simple balancing issue that's a part of the problem.
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  12. #412
    Mechagnome Alkizon's Avatar
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    --- snip ---
    Oh, boy!.. you didn’t compare/argue about progress in that conversation, but about content, this was the point of my comment. Therefore, it's necessary to compare it with LFR, it's there where you already receiving all content. I have already explained about progress - it's not tied to your available content due to RNG+forge mechanics, so you can get "inappropriate" items (= progress) without participating in specific (often more difficult for you if oriented on old design "progress stage", because then it was associated with specific content, but now there is no such concept) stuff, which you're trying to address me.

    For reference: last boss killing at any level of complexity, taking into account current design, is the end of “raid” content (doesn't metter if it M or LFR), and progress due to budding it out as separate concept is now associated exclusively with set of BIS gear for current expansion stage (in some sense, it also did before, but it was limited by “content” earlier - steps of testing your abilities and accumulated knowledge/motility/social factor (friends' help/buying), but now it's not - no reason, no motivation, apparently, challenge is clearly not working when it only one motivator, curiosity/interest and envy are much stronger ones).

    Therefore, you get all final content in LFR, and progress continues by freebie “hatching” daily/weekly quests and by going to easiest of "profitable" mystics available to you (not you, but average player, also, judging by forum, not only average...) - with minimal for you labor costs (= you get progress in exchange for subscription, very slow and almost uncontrollable (what is also absolutely true for those who're truly involved in difficultest progress stages), but... which cancels bar for your skills that you had to overcome back then), which still “keeps” you with its accessibility until you realize that you're mired in routine of useless progress for you in terms of content, and then you'll understand that this all turns into challenge/E-sports, which not driving by curiosity or interest in content meaning, this could be enough for someone especially if game holds gameplay bar, but somehow I strongly doubt this last in relation to current game *looking at even if not accurate, but assumptions regarding subscribers number*

    For example, Ulduar had system of difficulties that was implemented without use of additional modes: optional bosses with additional part of “history” (quests, dialogues etc.), additional not only mechanical, but meaning parts of encounters. Even HFC had hiden true kill of Archimonde, but unfortunately it wasn't 1 moment in just whole battle, but also in whole raid in general, therefore element, albeit correct, but still is very insignificant, besides, there is no sense in hiding it by “mode” when it can be realized directly through battle conditions, players actions.

    I absolutely agree that these are really two completely different game concepts now, but this wasn't case before, this is what I'm trying to explain to you - this is artificial separation, it shouldn't happen. Content stages should be inextricably linked with progress stages, and all together it will be called expansion progress.

    ps. And what does my progress mean here? We're talking about system as a whole. I have never concealed, but on contrary, repeatedly stressed that I stoped play since 2015 (though the reason for this was somewhat more unique, see signature), only this doesn't prevent me from talking about design principles, since these're universal concepts (in fact, my participation in this began only after we were promised Classic). If you'd talk about specific location/rotation, or about behavior in particular encounter, element of battle (eg. GCD discussion), I'd not even get in your debate.
    Last edited by Alkizon; 2019-07-19 at 12:34 PM.
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  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Leveling dungeons? Who cares? But with the right gear there is not much difference. Your class might lack som of the tools needed to clear it as fast as today and you do lack things such as looms but in general, the game is super easy.
    Lacking tools, HP, mana, damage, armor and healing at the same time there actually exist mechanics you need to pay attention to and deal with. In the Wailing Caverns example, mob druids casting sleep on the healer is surely nothing to worry about, or how about the serpentwings casting fear on the tank? Sure sounds like things you can just plow through with.
    Last edited by Dergiab; 2019-05-21 at 06:16 AM.

  14. #414
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    "people with 15 years of nostalgia, clouded by experiencing poor imitations suddenly realize something wasn't as hardcore as they remember it was"
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  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by hardtofin View Post
    What do you guys think about this?

    I played vanilla and definitely remember them being as hard if not harder than the levelling. The guys in the beta are reporting levelling being MUCH hard than private servers but dungeons being WAY easier. They are talking about the possibility there was a stealth nerf to dungeons in 1.12

    I hope this wasn't the case as easy dungeons will really suck in classic imo, what do you guys reckon?
    Cant compare apples to oranges man in relation to experience and what to expect. Plus its in Beta right now and those things can be adjusted.

  16. #416
    Dungeon were hard because you had a shaman tanking, healed by a shadow priest who prefered to dps. The warrior in the group didn't had a shield, and basically in the end every one was doing every role.

  17. #417
    People who are playing it now, and certainly those who are streaming it are all those mega hardcore gamers who play wow for living. It's fine that those people are having an easy time, really.

  18. #418
    Brewmaster taishar68's Avatar
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    I wonder if Blizzard will do beta raids, maybe even just MC, allowing players to roll a premade 60 at a certain gear level to gauge the difficulty. I know it's not a perfect test because beta testers =! you specifically, but I wonder if they might decide to adjust numbers based on the level of difficulty in the raid. I guess it kind of depends on how long they want the phases be; no point in having an average group still banging their head in MC right as another phase comes out, but at the same time you don't want people getting bored too quickly, at least in the context of being max level and raiding.
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  19. #419
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    I never struggled in dungeons while leveling, not until BC. The illusion that dungeons were mega hard is a combination of nostalgia from when you were younger and worse at the game, and private servers that intentionally buffed these dungeons.

  20. #420
    The difficulty of vanilla dungeons were the players or the lack of knowledge. Only real dangerous situation are adds, which happen because people dont pay attention or dont know their routes.

    There still will be plenty of wipes because someone adds some pack.

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