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  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by hardtofin View Post
    What do you guys think about this?

    I played vanilla and definitely remember them being as hard if not harder than the levelling. The guys in the beta are reporting levelling being MUCH hard than private servers but dungeons being WAY easier. They are talking about the possibility there was a stealth nerf to dungeons in 1.12

    I hope this wasn't the case as easy dungeons will really suck in classic imo, what do you guys reckon?
    They probably were hard, but u also have a better understanding of the game now. Which makes them much easier.

  2. #442
    Dungeons in vanilla WoW were never really even hard to begin with.

    Going at a slower pace was normal, using CC was normal, and you rarely saw the "go go go" mentality you do nowadays.

  3. #443
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    No, AOE is limited but 3 packs works well enough and the game is still super easy.
    Would love to see some footage of that. Until then, didn't happen.
    Last edited by Dergiab; 2019-05-21 at 07:19 PM.

  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by vsb View Post
    I have no idea who those people watching streamers. That's pretty dumb thing to do! There might be exceptions like watching high level PvP player to learn from him. But popular streamers don't do anything worth of watching, they just play. I watched some beta streamers a little bit, just because I can't play classic, but I would never do that if I would have an access! People are so weird!
    You know it is 2019. It may schock you but most people have dual monitors. I always turn on twitch stream on 1 monitor and play game on second one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -aiko- View Post
    I never struggled in dungeons while leveling, not until BC. The illusion that dungeons were mega hard is a combination of nostalgia from when you were younger and worse at the game, and private servers that intentionally buffed these dungeons.
    Not like its any different on retail tho.

  5. #445
    Titan Aggrophobic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dergiab View Post
    Would love to see some footage of that. Until then, didn't happen.
    I'll get a few sceens for you tonight. Early morning today, I'm afraid.

  6. #446
    I am Murloc! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardtofin View Post
    I played vanilla and definitely remember them being as hard if not harder than the levelling.
    You remember wrong. Vanilla was faceroll easy as long as you had non braindead players with you. Most of the players being braindead, just like now.
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    You remember wrong. Vanilla was faceroll easy as long as you had non braindead players with you. Most of the players being braindead, just like now.
    Do people really don't remember that wow at that time was the casual version of MMO? I'm still surprised a guy that claims he played vanilla open this type of threats vanilla=time consuming, I bet my paycheck that if they don't do the fights mathematical impossible the raids will fall with crazy speeds

  8. #448
    Herald of the Titans Marston's Avatar
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    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...u=marston-2213

    At least Rhahk'zor (and probably more or even all other mobs) is working as intended. The damage really is "that low".

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Not like its any different on retail tho.
    Err, live servers do have the option of much more difficult dungeons than anything that was in classic.

  10. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by Farah View Post
    Err, live servers do have the option of much more difficult dungeons than anything that was in classic.
    Obviously, but lets keep in mind these are lvl 30 dungeons people are running with full blues/bis gear for their level. When classic comes out in a few months and random groups go into strat/scholo/dm there are going to be lots of wipes. Also the streamers we are watching right now are either private server players who have been playing vanilla for a really long time or are highly skilled retail players with many rank 1 glad titles. The overall difficulty of vanilla will not be able to be gauged until full release and we get to see how nubs fare, and i think its going to be fine.

  11. #451
    Quote Originally Posted by Farah View Post
    Err, live servers do have the option of much more difficult dungeons than anything that was in classic.
    Just remember, they change it very quickly to "leveling dungeons" to compare like with like, while pretending heroic, mythic, and m+ dont exist at max level. Leveling dungeons in retail are "easy" because they are there for story, and for completing the zone quest. They are not supposed to provide any meaningful challenge. The dungeons in Vanilla however, although often being a part of a bigger story, will mostly not be repeated at all at max level, so their difficulty needs to be relevant at the appropriate level, and that really isn't the case. It is however how it was, and it should be again this time around. Dont know how many times i can say this but if you want challenging content, Vanilla / Classic is NOT for you.

    As most have already said, Vanilla dungeons were very easy, with the only challenge coming from a lack of knowledge, lack of experience, time consuming group formation and travel, some maze like dungeons taking a very long time with punishing waits if someone went the wrong way, which often resulted in some kid leaving because "mum said its bed time".

    All of this is not an issue - its how it was, its how it should be again - one more time - if you are playing Classic for challenging content, you are going to be very, very disappointed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    Obviously, but lets keep in mind these are lvl 30 dungeons people are running with full blues/bis gear for their level. When classic comes out in a few months and random groups go into strat/scholo/dm there are going to be lots of wipes. Also the streamers we are watching right now are either private server players who have been playing vanilla for a really long time or are highly skilled retail players with many rank 1 glad titles. The overall difficulty of vanilla will not be able to be gauged until full release and we get to see how nubs fare, and i think its going to be fine.
    ABSOLUTE garbage. Only multi rank 1 players are streaming beta? what an absolute load of steaming garbage. And no, we dont have to wait - the game was out 15 years ago, many of us were there, have done it, and dont need to wait to find out that the dungeons are easy. Just excuse after excuse, Multi glad....ffs. what an absolute steaming pile of garbage.

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Just remember, they change it very quickly to "leveling dungeons" to compare like with like, while pretending heroic, mythic, and m+ dont exist at max level. Leveling dungeons in retail are "easy" because they are there for story, and for completing the zone quest. They are not supposed to provide any meaningful challenge. The dungeons in Vanilla however, although often being a part of a bigger story, will mostly not be repeated at all at max level, so their difficulty needs to be relevant at the appropriate level, and that really isn't the case. It is however how it was, and it should be again this time around. Dont know how many times i can say this but if you want challenging content, Vanilla / Classic is NOT for you.

    As most have already said, Vanilla dungeons were very easy, with the only challenge coming from a lack of knowledge, lack of experience, time consuming group formation and travel, some maze like dungeons taking a very long time with punishing waits if someone went the wrong way, which often resulted in some kid leaving because "mum said its bed time".

    All of this is not an issue - its how it was, its how it should be again - one more time - if you are playing Classic for challenging content, you are going to be very, very disappointed.

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    ABSOLUTE garbage. Only multi rank 1 players are streaming beta? what an absolute load of steaming garbage. And no, we dont have to wait - the game was out 15 years ago, many of us were there, have done it, and dont need to wait to find out that the dungeons are easy. Just excuse after excuse, Multi glad....ffs. what an absolute steaming pile of garbage.
    If you are refering to your post history i would agree, you are way too angry of a person to have a reasonable conversation with. Thinking that there aren't going to be new players to classic and how they are going to struggle the same way people did in vanilla is short sighted, many of the streamers on classic beta are multi r1 glads and have the technical foundation that all those new players will not.

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    Classic WAS fucking easy, people were just clueless back then.
    IF done right. It sounds like this is a round em up and aoe them down sort of scenario and that was absolutely not vanilla.

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    If you are refering to your post history i would agree, you are way too angry of a person to have a reasonable conversation with. Thinking that there aren't going to be new players to classic and how they are going to struggle the same way people did in vanilla is short sighted, many of the streamers on classic beta are multi r1 glads and have the technical foundation that all those new players will not.
    name 10. ill wait.

  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    name 10. ill wait.
    Do you not watch twitch my dude?

    Snutz
    Sodapoppin
    Cdew
    Venruki
    Pikaboo
    Trillebartom
    Zico
    Sonii
    Xaryu
    Jellybeans


    Thats just off the top of my head.

    The skill level of these players is wayyy beyond whats going to be the norm in classic.

  16. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    Do you not watch twitch my dude?

    Snutz
    Sodapoppin
    Cdew
    Venruki
    Pikaboo
    Trillebartom
    Zico
    Sonii
    Xaryu
    Jellybeans


    Thats just off the top of my head.

    The skill level of these players is wayyy beyond whats going to be the norm in classic.
    Only seen 3 of them streaming at all? Just to stay on topic, and to clear this up - you are argueing that players will find dungeons in Classic challenging, yes? I just want to be very clear about what you are saying. Because you seem to be twisting it to say those 10 ppl are finding it easy because they are "multi glad r1 players". But your claim is that the dungeons are genuinely hard?

  17. #457
    Scarab Lord
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    There are three type of people in this thread.

    People who say that the dungeon content is easy, but also want the game to do bad, for unknown reasons.

    People who think WoW classic dungeons are really hard and that if people are finding them easy, well, they are wrong and the game is possibly bugged.

    People who don't care and just enjoy the game for what it is.

    I have to ask though, why do people get so defensive when people call 15 year old entry level dungeon content easy? Some people in this thread are literally frothing at the mouth and come to the defense of the game, like the difficulty of dungeons is exclusively why people play it. It's pretty sad to be honest. Here's a big newsflash for everybody. When you play a game, and then play it again, it's usually easier. Whats harder in WoW? Progression or farm? Not saying Vanilla is exclusively farm, but if you've experienced it before, it's going to feel pretty close to that.

    PvE content doesn't need to be mega difficult to make it an enjoyable experience. I'm certainly not playing it exclusively because of that, I'm playing because it's fun to play two different versions of the game (Yeah, I like both the live and classic versions of the game, for different reasons).

    I'll repeat something I said earlier in this thread too. One of the main reasons dungeons are easy is simply because there's no mystery anymore. The biggest reason dungeons felt challenging when I played 15 years ago wasn't because they were hard, it was because we almost always entered the fucking dungeons way under leveled. Without any prior knowledge, it was super common to be baited into a dungeon at the lower level thresholds, only to get to the last half of the dungeon and realize that the mobs in this part of the dungeon are 4-5 levels higher than you. Anybody that knows how crushing blows, critical strikes, resists, hit chance, dodge/parry and glancing blows can tell you why fighting mobs over 4 levels higher than you is generally a lost cause (Hunters being the only exception). Mob health actually doesn't scale that fast, but boy when you start fighting mobs 4 levels higher it becomes pretty painful.

  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by kaelix1 View Post
    Do people really don't remember that wow at that time was the casual version of MMO? I'm still surprised a guy that claims he played vanilla open this type of threats vanilla=time consuming, I bet my paycheck that if they don't do the fights mathematical impossible the raids will fall with crazy speeds
    Of course they will. Raid bosses in vanilla usually had less mechanics then dungeon bosses have in retail.

    Do you have 40 people(really only for later nax bosses you can underman almost everything else lol)?

    Can your install a threat meter?

    Can your healers use proper ranks and not OOM?

    Can your dps not stand in bad?

    Congrats you will clear all content in classic regardless of if your entire raid is players that put up green parses on live.

  19. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Only seen 3 of them streaming at all? Just to stay on topic, and to clear this up - you are argueing that players will find dungeons in Classic challenging, yes? I just want to be very clear about what you are saying. Because you seem to be twisting it to say those 10 ppl are finding it easy because they are "multi glad r1 players". But your claim is that the dungeons are genuinely hard?
    It's a combination of things that is going on here:

    1. The baseline of knowledge and skill for most beta testers is well beyond an average level for classic, like multitudes. The amount of things these guys know about vanilla WoW mechanics (especially private server players) trivializes so much about what made vanilla hard in 2004-2006. New players will not have this baseline from years of playing this game.
    2. These players are not only veterans and skilled players but are running LEVEL 30 DUNGEONS, in BiS lvl 30 gear lol. You are not going to see this level of gearing with random people leveling in classic.
    3. Once you get higher level the dungeons spike in difficulty, strat/scholo/dire maul are going to be very challenging on classic for new players.

    The first one really is the main point tho, the sheer amount of things you pick up over time cannot be understated and new players will have none of that....which is a good thing for the experience.

  20. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    There are three type of people in this thread.

    People who say that the dungeon content is easy, but also want the game to do bad, for unknown reasons.

    People who think WoW classic dungeons are really hard and that if people are finding them easy, well, they are wrong and the game is possibly bugged.

    People who don't care and just enjoy the game for what it is.

    I have to ask though, why do people get so defensive when people call 15 year old entry level dungeon content easy? Some people in this thread are literally frothing at the mouth and come to the defense of the game, like the difficulty of dungeons is exclusively why people play it. It's pretty sad to be honest. Here's a big newsflash for everybody. When you play a game, and then play it again, it's usually easier. Whats harder in WoW? Progression or farm? Not saying Vanilla is exclusively farm, but if you've experienced it before, it's going to feel pretty close to that.

    PvE content doesn't need to be mega difficult to make it an enjoyable experience. I'm certainly not playing it exclusively because of that, I'm playing because it's fun to play two different versions of the game (Yeah, I like both the live and classic versions of the game, for different reasons).
    Nice bait - suggesting that anyone who says they are easy wants the game to do bad. Many of us accept the dungeons were never hard, but that is totally ok and the game will do fine regardless. Sure, those thinking the game was going to have the equiv of high end M+ keys for dungeons will be pretty let down, but i would like to think they are a tiny minority.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    It's a combination of things that is going on here:

    1. The baseline of knowledge and skill for most beta testers is well beyond an average level for classic, like multitudes. The amount of things these guys know about vanilla WoW mechanics (especially private server players) trivializes so much about what made vanilla hard in 2004-2006. New players will not have this baseline from years of playing this game.
    2. These players are not only veterans and skilled players but are running LEVEL 30 DUNGEONS, in BiS lvl 30 gear lol. You are not going to see this level of gearing with random people leveling in classic.
    3. Once you get higher level the dungeons spike in difficulty, strat/scholo/dire maul are going to be very challenging on classic for new players.

    The first one really is the main point tho, the sheer amount of things you pick up over time cannot be understated and new players will have none of that....which is a good thing for the experience.
    you didn't answer the question.

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