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  1. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by deniter View Post
    I've watched quite a few old vanilla videos on youtube and it really seems the tuning in beta is about right. I believe it looks so easy in beta because those streamers have run every single dungeon and are very well geared, and they overleveled some of the dungeons by 5+ levels. Some of them are terrible players or they are focusing more on streaming, not playing, yet they can recover from severe mistakes without wipe quite often. This also supports my theory of them being just very well geared rather than mobs being too weak.
    Gear matters so much in Classic, player skill is maybe 20% of the equation. A well equipped tank just standing in everything, never LOS or never interrupt anything will take significantly less damage than a tank that is doing everything he can but is crappy equipped. That's just how it was. Gear > Skill.

    The whole "gear matters" originates from gear being more important than skill.

  2. #522
    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    A blue drop from a dungeon is gonna be relevant regardless if you are at the appropriate level or not. Classic WoW was generally "gear matters" philosophy, some items last you for a very long time. That's why a group of +4 levels and has green mobs is still gonna get relevant rewards. XP is not a relevant reward even if all mobs are yellow-orange, except the Dungeon Quest(s).
    Again, you're the only person bringing up the relevance of XP rewards. Stahp.

    You just seem to make the argument that you should "level in crap(er) gear until you're way ahead of what the dungeon requires *then* go get the rewards from it", which seems retarded compared to "go get the rewards from it as soon as you are a high enough level to use them" which could result in some tricky situations because you're fighting mobs that are higher level than you. Your tricky situations seem to be "people will be retarded and undergeared therefore it's hard" which is a moot point, yes if you're bad at the game it will be difficult (??).
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Damnit hubcap, you are such a retard.
    Quote Originally Posted by mojusk View Post
    Oh, and stop being a "didn't do that in vanilla"-police. If we're doing something now that we didnt do back then, it's not because we had some sorta unwritten moral code back then, it's because we hadn't thought of it yet.

  3. #523
    I don't remember dungeons being hard in vanilla. Granted I played mage maybe my job was just easy. Keep my mob sheeped, dps tank's target, occasionally aoe when it's called for.

    But while vanilla dungeons had more use for crowd control I wouldn't really call them 'difficult' compared to today's heroic/mythic dungeons either, not even getting into mythic +.

  4. #524
    Quote Originally Posted by deniter View Post
    I've watched quite a few old vanilla videos on youtube and it really seems the tuning in beta is about right. I believe it looks so easy in beta because those streamers have run every single dungeon and are very well geared, and they overleveled some of the dungeons by 5+ levels. Some of them are terrible players or they are focusing more on streaming, not playing, yet they can recover from severe mistakes without wipe quite often. This also supports my theory of them being just very well geared rather than mobs being too weak.
    Like I pretty much said in my OG post.

  5. #525
    People keep saying nobody knew what they were doing like no videogames existed before WoW. And saying the average age of players was 8-10 LOL. Maybe you were 8 when it launched, but the majority of players had grown up with Warcraft and migrated from other games like EQ, Asheron's Call, Dark Age of Camelot, etc when WoW launched.

    And yes, vanilla and BC were a lot less braindead than any xpac since. It got dumbed down over the years to cater to the casual crowd. Yes, it was a lot more tedious and time consuming as well. But one bad member in a group could end the whole run. Dungeons on live require no cc, barely require interrupts, cleave and aoe now ignore cc'ed mobs, etc. You can literally 2 man (and in some cases solo) most of the dungeons on live. That shit didn't work in vanilla. Vanilla require rogues to sap and stunlock, mages needed to sheep, hunters needed to trap and off-tank with a pet, same for locks banishing and occasionally off-tanking, etc. Threat actually mattered to tanks. Dispelling and cleansing mattered. None of this matters on live. Rush in, tank automatically holds threat with one thunderclap, everyone cleaves until nothing is standing, pull next pack with near full hp and mana. That's not an exciting evolution of dungeon gameplay compared to classic/TBC. TBC was the best iteration of dungeons in my opinion by a long shot.

  6. #526
    Quote Originally Posted by Orbusg View Post
    Many pservers apparently made elites/dungeon mobs and bosses deliberately harder too, probably because a lot of people remember them being a lot harder their first time than they really were.

    It's easy to forget that everyone was once a noob keyboard turner when you're chest deep in end game raiding.
    And some people.... unfortunately never leave that stage.
    Agreed. Not to mention the people playing are veterans of the game, are playing with at least B tier or above players, and for the most part have been though these places many times themselves. I am sure when it's fully released and any joe is playing it some will wipe and die.

    People just put PSers on to high of a pedistal in terms of accuracy. I wont lie, they did a damn good job getting things close with the tools avalialbe. But some people cannot let it go.

  7. #527
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    People just put PSers on to high of a pedistal in terms of accuracy. I wont lie, they did a damn good job getting things close with the tools avalialbe. But some people cannot let it go.
    Arent you just creating a problem out of thin air?
    I really dont see people demaning Classic to be like PS's.

    I could be wrong...but...really?

    Everyone informed knows those servers were 50% guesses, 40% research, 10% to make the game harder.

  8. #528
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    Arent you just creating a problem out of thin air?
    I really dont see people demaning Classic to be like PS's.

    I could be wrong...but...really?

    Everyone informed knows those servers were 50% guesses, 40% research, 10% to make the game harder.
    Just look at the title of this 17 page post. That I only responded to. Looks like air is thicker than you assume it is.

  9. #529
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    Just look at the title of this 17 page post. That I only responded to. Looks like air is thicker than you assume it is.
    People are demanding Classic to be like PS's?????????

    Or are people demanding things because they THOUGHT PS's were right?

    Its different.

  10. #530
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    People are demanding Classic to be like PS's?????????

    Or are people demanding things because they THOUGHT PS's were right?

    Its different.
    I said They used them as the base line comparison. You seem to want to make it out go people ranting it to be like PS. What exactly are you on about with this?

  11. #531
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    I said They used them as the base line comparison. You seem to want to make it out go people ranting it to be like PS. What exactly are you on about with this?
    My bad man...i was still thinking of somones elses post.
    No one here is saying they want Classic to be like PS's.

    My bad.

  12. #532
    Every major patch during vanilla had nerfs to dungeons and raids. Raids and dungeons on most private servers are trying to emulate encounter pre-nerfs. Classic will use 1.12 mechanics and stats, meaning we will get the easiest version on vanilla.

    No more wiping on onyxia.

  13. #533
    Stop using private servers where they change stuff all the time as what Vanilla was like as many times it just isn’t true. Like this case.

  14. #534
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    My bad man...i was still thinking of somones elses post.
    No one here is saying they want Classic to be like PS's.

    My bad.
    I wanted to praise you on a proper resolution to a misunderstanding.

  15. #535
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldfire989 View Post
    Stop using private servers where they change stuff all the time as what Vanilla was like as many times it just isn’t true. Like this case.
    Progression? Or what do are you referring to?

  16. #536
    Give me WC3:R, Blizz! The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by collax View Post
    It get cleared in the first day every time it's released on any private server, even on the one that buffed the already buffed boss stats (health, armor, damage) by 30% and disactivated world buffs inside.
    There's no way you can level from 1-60, get geared up through all the other raids and dungeons, and then clear Naxxrammas in a single day. No way, dude.

  17. #537
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    There's no way you can level from 1-60, get geared up through all the other raids and dungeons, and then clear Naxxrammas in a single day. No way, dude.
    Naxx is not released on the first day.

  18. #538
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    @Funkyjunky I guess I misunderstood what collax was saying, then. It sounded like they meant 'first day' as in 'day one of the server'.

    EDIT: Do I think it's possible to clear it on day one of Naxx release? Sure, if people have had enough time to get all the gear, buffs, etc. ready. There are plenty of guides out there for Naxx, and people who have done it before. It would probably be really difficult to do, though.

  19. #539
    The game is 15 years old. People have done every dungeon so many times by now they know them in and out. That coupled with the scale of information available for everything regarding classic, im not surprised dungeons are easier than people remember them to be.

    Not to mention alot of the people that got early beta access probably belong to the group of players that got alot of knowledge and experience in the game - especially the streamers. And watching popular streamers getting grps etc for dungeon runs aint really the "correct" image of how it will be for the average player.

    My personal experience though:

    Back in classic I never really thought the early dungeons were hard - like Deadmines, Wailing Caverns, Scarlet M, Stockade etc. It really started to get harder when you got closer to 60 and at 60.

    But whats really "harder" in classic is to get 5 people in a group. Then travel to a dungeon. Then hope they are all good enough to complete dungeon. THEN hope everyone actually will stay the whole run, cause it was such a pain to replace someone. Someone instaleaves cause you wiped? In retail, we can get a new one quickly(except m+), but in classic it can be a whole ordeal.

    Gear also had a much greater impact at lower lvls. Not only should you be lvl appropiate, but also have OKish gear. The streamers are all good geared and it was no hassle for them to get "BIS" at lvl 30. Cause they get alot of free help.

    Just imagine a dungeon like Maraudon, as a alliance player or horde for that matter. You are all in SW, IF or Darnassus. Just the time it takes to even get there can be a hurdle to many. You are all there, go in. After about 10 minutes someone leaves for X reason. Now what? Well out to find a replacement.

    The good thing about all this is that if you did complete dungeons that required time, effort and some skill, you would often end up making friends along the way. That aspect is 100% gone now. You queue up, rush through dungeon and leave. In classic you and your grp shares the experience and reap the rewards together in the end.

    I remember all that back then, and it was great too. Will it great for me this time around? I dont really know, I hope so.
    Last edited by crusadernero; 2019-05-22 at 04:44 PM.

  20. #540
    The problem is, people expect everyone to be as terrible as them.

    "I only get to play 5h per week, and in retail after 2 months i have nothing to do" (Without ever doing anything worthwhile but thats another point, anyone can play as far as they want).

    Those people believe that somehow because its Classic, everyone will accept them for how slow and terrible they are.

    They cant comprehend how private server players will get in and cleave everything.

    They cant comprehend how when Vanilla was out, there were people that played 20h/day, and there are people that will do that now of the new generation.

    And they cant comprehend that not everyone wants to pretend things are hard for the sake of others.

    And people crying about how endgame dungeons are gonna be harder, adorable but no.

    There are 2 dangerous mobs in Vanilla pre-raid, the Mortal Strike guard in DM North (which any half arsed group would skip for Tribute Run), and the last boss in DM west Prince Tortheldrin? with his attack speed (windfury?) when you are completely undergeared and bad at the game.

    The rest are pointless tank and spank.
    Last edited by potis; 2019-05-22 at 04:53 PM.

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