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  1. #541
    If you want hard dungeons play retail mythic +

  2. #542
    yeah classic was brutal, i remember my first dungeon ever, DM, i kept rolling need because i really disliked the 'greed' word, i mean come on, greed is bad...

    we kept wiping because the tank had no shield and the healer wasn't really healing and the hunter didn't know how to use his pet etc...

    but vanilla dungeons in 2019 a challenge?... come on...

  3. #543
    Bloodsail Admiral Whitedragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armadildo View Post
    People try low level dungeons. OH MY GERD ITS EASY.
    Good luck in stratholme.
    You mean that dungeon I used to tank as a pally with a 2H mace equipped as holy spec so I could zap the shades?

  4. #544
    I'm excited to see if i remember things wrong or not.

  5. #545
    I can't believe that people still ACTUALLY believe/remember that vanilla gameplay is hard. The difficulty in vanilla has always been time commitment required, but the mechanics were simple even on the standards of those days - how could they possibly pose any difficulty to someone who has been playing wow for about 15 years so far? Content is slow to complete, but it is by no means hard.

    Read this carefully: If you are looking only for challenge, vanilla is not your game. Modern wow has way more challenging content than vanilla.

  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    Like I pretty much said in my OG post.
    And i thank you for that. I had read your post a while ago and it made me think this while i was watching the beta streams.

  7. #547
    Quote Originally Posted by duselsteiner View Post
    If you want hard dungeons play retail mythic +
    And here is one big problem with modern version of dungeons. Difficulty levels. Mythic+ is challenging and super hard compared to classic dungeons but flaw is in order to make them hard you have to start scaling difficulty sliders. And difficulty sliders are not mmorpg feature what should be in any proper mmo game. Everyhing should have 1 set difficulty and that difficulty should be at level of mythic 10. No timers, no corridors, just slow challenging dungeon crawl in really big *** dungeon with secrets, rare bosses and crafting material, etc... This what makes dungeons and raids in classic appealing. Fact they do not have difficulty levels. You do dungeon or not there is nothing between. No easy mods, no lfr, no lfg, nothing. And as long as Blizz will segment game into bazillions of difficulty levels end game of classic will be always more appealing regardless if content is hard or not.

    Well in the end we all know what slowly killed off most of wow community. Acessability. Classic lacks that and brings exclusivity which is huge iniciative to do content itself
    Last edited by Elias01; 2019-05-22 at 07:01 PM.

  8. #548
    Well, dungeons were never hard in Vanilla.

    So, working as intended.
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  9. #549
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    And here is one big problem with modern version of dungeons. Difficulty levels. Mythic+ is challenging and super hard compared to classic dungeons but flaw is in order to make them hard you have to start scaling difficulty sliders. And difficulty sliders are not mmorpg feature what should be in any proper mmo game. Everyhing should have 1 set difficulty and that difficulty should be at level of mythic 10. No timers, no corridors, just slow challenging dungeon crawl in really big *** dungeon with secrets, rare bosses and crafting material, etc... This what makes dungeons and raids in classic appealing. Fact they do not have difficulty levels. You do dungeon or not there is nothing between. No easy, no lfr, no lfg, nothing.
    Thats a really good point.

    A "difficulty slider" is less epic than a TBC Heroic being hard by default. It makes the place more epic to begin with.

    Herr...you could consider "Heroic" a difficulty slider...true...but at least its not a +23 different difficulty sliders.
    You either did it on normal or Heroic.

    In actual CLassic WoW Vanilla...i dont know if there will be any difficult dungeons. We will see.

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Yes and no. Yes, it’s true mechanic wise live wow has more to deal with than all of vanilla dungeons combined. However, they were more difficult than live in one important aspect...being unforgiving.

    Example: in live as a MT I can screw up half a dozen times and we can overcome it. I can forget my cds and I’ll be a ok. It’s way more forgiving, even with more mechanics and dangers.

    Classic is more dark souls in a way where it’s firm but fair in its difficulty and there’s not much forgiveness if they screw up you die and wipe

    So yes and no. Mechanics wise no, practically yes
    what do you mean unforgiving? Even fucking up something as major as not stance dancing a Magamdar/Onyxia/Nefarian isn't a guaranteed wipe. It is hard to compare Vanilla raiding group content (dungeon and raiding) with live because live has so many difficulties.

    You also had far fewer tools in Vanilla than now as far as tank mitigation goes. Shield Wall was a 30 minute- 1 hour CD (forgot which since it keeps getting shifted), so you are in far less control of your well-being and more dependent on your healers. There's a reason that tanks doing bleed edge content stacked stamina all the way up to Wrath/Cata because you simply can die when boss wants you to die.

  11. #551
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    And here is one big problem with modern version of dungeons. Difficulty levels. Mythic+ is challenging and super hard compared to classic dungeons but flaw is in order to make them hard you have to start scaling difficulty sliders. And difficulty sliders are not mmorpg feature what should be in any proper mmo game. Everyhing should have 1 set difficulty and that difficulty should be at level of mythic 10. No timers, no corridors, just slow challenging dungeon crawl in really big *** dungeon with secrets, rare bosses and crafting material, etc... This what makes dungeons and raids in classic appealing. Fact they do not have difficulty levels. You do dungeon or not there is nothing between. No easy mods, no lfr, no lfg, nothing. And as long as Blizz will segment game into bazillions of difficulty levels end game of classic will be always more appealing regardless if content is hard or not.

    Well in the end we all know what slowly killed off most of wow community. Acessability. Classic lacks that and brings exclusivity which is huge iniciative to do content itself
    So much for elitism. For a mainstream MMORPG.

    Classic dungeons are not really exclusive to anyone, as they are easy. As like everything in classic, the real brick wall is time effort, and not skill effort. The time effort to find a tank in the LFG chat in a major city. The time effort to travel to the dungeon. 1 hour plus 20 minutes just spamming a chat channel and doing the trip to the dungeon.

    Thats not immersive, that is time spent for nothing.
    Last edited by Fred Skinner; 2019-05-22 at 09:33 PM.

  12. #552
    Legendary! Deficineiron's Avatar
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    so apparently asmongold + group cleared SM armory as 30's. There is a reddit post linking damage to a 60 war vid from herod doing more normal damage there vs. crits/crushes on asmon.

    was clearing 8-9 levels below possible at all in actual classic? Was it done? Any videos (one would think this would have been recorded)?
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  13. #553
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Keep in mind we're talking twinked out 30s who did quests multiple zones too high via viewer raids.
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  14. #554
    dungeons weren't hard. they were easy AF.

    Seems people have the memory of a goldfsh :P

  15. #555
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    so apparently asmongold + group cleared SM armory as 30's. There is a reddit post linking damage to a 60 war vid from herod doing more normal damage there vs. crits/crushes on asmon.

    was clearing 8-9 levels below possible at all in actual classic? Was it done? Any videos (one would think this would have been recorded)?
    I think the SM run looks about right. It was possible to kill skull level mobs but since it was faster and a lot easier to run dungeons at more appropriate level people usually refused to do so. Also, most tanks expected some wipes to happen and they refused to tank orange and red level dungeons because of repair bill they had to pay.

    Asmongold hits 5 level higher mobs for 6 dmg with his ww axe, which also looks about right. Anyone having runs like this in live game are either trying to prove something or are desperately after a certain item.

  16. #556
    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    dungeons weren't hard. they were easy AF.

    Seems people have the memory of a goldfsh :P
    goldfish remember stuff from 15 years ago?

    heck i cant even remember wotlk...only a few selected things.

  17. #557
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    goldfish remember stuff from 15 years ago?

    heck i cant even remember wotlk...only a few selected things.
    That's proof you're not a hardcore fan of WoW. You need to play more WoW.

    Joking aside. I was being sarcastic. People tend to have false memories all the time. including this thread.

  18. #558
    Didn't play in classic and have only really been watching Preach tank dungeons so I'm gonna just leave a few opinions.

    1. These dungeons are harder than any normal dungeon right now.
    2. These are the low level dungeons. They will be getting harder (As you can tell in Preach's videos.)

  19. #559
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    None of the dungeons are that hard. We did wipe twice in Gnomeregan, but that was only at the end working our way down to the last boss. Why? Well, our choice to bring a 26 rogue, who, because of his level would proxy aggro things on the other side of the trench leading down to the last boss, in addition to the stuff in it.

    I echoed this multiple times in this thread, but level appropriate dungeons are very easy. If you start bringing anything but a hunter (more on this later) to an instance where mobs are 4+ levels higher, it's going to be difficult for a lot of reasons. +3 mob level is essentially fighting things that are boss level across the entire instance. This is doable, but not ideal. I forget the formula, but miss, dodge/parry, resists and glancing blows keep scaling upwards the higher the level difference becomes. For a lot of melee, this means the majority of your damage is going to be a miss/dodge, and your auto attacks that land are going to be heavily penalized by glancing blows. Essentially, you're rolling the dice hoping for crits, but they don't happen often with low level gear. Same goes for casters. All you're going to see is attacks resisting and barely doing any damage.

    Tanking becomes difficult when facing higher level mobs because the same holds true as it does for DPS. It's hard for your attacks to hit, and when they do it does very little damage. Threat becomes a nightmare, and you're going to be eating critical strikes and crushing blows frequently.

    Most mobs and bosses in Vanilla have very few abilities, or very straight forward abilities. You can kite nearly every mob in Vanilla WoW, especially if you use height to your advantage in certain dungeons to force mobs to take a long trek around, only for you to jump down and cause them to run the exact opposite direction.

    If you want to get around the +4 to +9 mob level differential, bring hunters. There attacks can't glance, nor can their attacks be dodged/parried. Their attacks can only miss, so the difference between them and any other class while fighting mobs you shouldn't be fighting is immense. That 26 rogue in our Gnomeregan essentially did 0 damage to the last couple bosses, and was pretty useless for the trash on the way. If it had been a hunter, it really wouldn't have mattered that much.

    So yeah, clearing dungeons and mobs at +8 to +9 level is super possible, but it's time consuming. We two manned my whirlwind axe on beta as hunter/warrior. All I did was spam hamstring, while the hunter did all the damage. It would take a lot of time, and kiting to certain areas, but you could do Armory/Cathedral if you did a setup with multiple hunters, tank and a healer.

  20. #560
    The Lightbringer Heathy's Avatar
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    I distinctly remember healing dungeons got harder with tbc heroics, thats not to say, some groups in classic were wipe fests i'm sure i died many times in dungeons but in terms of difficulty I do remember that there was a point where it went from some-what casual healing to practically what its like today, a spam fest. I do remember even normal tbc dungeons were more challenging than classics 5 mans especially some of them like arcatraz and shadow labs. but the heroics is where the game changed into what its like today. at least for healers anyway that is for sure where it changed. there was nothing in classic that I did that even came close to healing pre-nerf tbc heroics. like raid scale damage in 5 mans. shattered halls was another one when your tank was just starting heroics and getting smashed. keeping the tank alive was probably at its hardest point then. I think that initial tuning was brutal and it very much required CC in some places. later on it got easier but there were always places that would be notorious for causing wipes. like that double big dude pull in underbog heroic by the first boss. I wonder how many ppl got destroyed by those two mobs because i remember that pull was practically untankable at the start.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2019-05-24 at 07:05 AM.

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