Everyone in the beta reporting that dungeons are REALLY easy :(

[ManiaCCC]

I mean that's just factually incorrect but ok think what you want !

"factually" .yea yea I would love to see how you can prove that.. According people here, number of deaths doesn't matter, it's not making game hard, just tedious.

[Velerios]

Sorry, but people here clearly never played vanilla. Vanilla was extreme easy before you reached the endgame-dungeons. Deadmines was just deadmines, it was NEVER hard at all. It's just the first dungeon for many people.

Heck, the first semi-hard dungeon was Scarlet Monastery. Library, Armory and Cathedral were the first half hard bosses. But even then they were just hard to heal, never hard to deal. Just overpulling was an issue and not using the CCs. With so many mages/rogues coming in Vanilla WoW this is surely a non-issue.

The next semi-hard dungeon was maybe sunken temple. Especially the endboss, but also the 2 dragons before. The lower-level-boss was just a trash, Hakkar was not very often summoned. But they were also not soo hard.

Then there are the first hard dungeons at 60. Strath was probably the easiest. Especially UD was the easiest wing. Strath HU was much much harder, especially the postmaster was insane (heck, even on live the postmaster is also one of the bosses i still have a bit respect for). And even worse: YOU CAN'T GO IN WITH A DRUID HEALER. At least as long there is no other player who can cure diseases.

Scholo was easy, except the second room (the mobs after the skeleton-guards are quite strong) and when you overpull.

BRD was a bit harder, not only it was pretty long, but the lyzeum was also very very hard when you are undergeard.

UBRS was also pretty hard

Then comes dire maul: east was easy, west was by far more dangerous, especially when you somehow aggroed another pack (aggro radius was bigger in vanilla), and north was hard when you did an tribute-run.

And the hardest of all of them was LBRS. I really really really hated LBRS as an healer. Some packs can hit so hard that it can oneshot a tank. They have some nasty buffs and debuffs there, some allows them to crit so high that it's almost unhealable. And overpulling was always quite a risk there. Especially if you played a Hunter and forgot to dismiss your pet: if you took an shortcut, you instantly had half the dungeon on you.

But everything not included in the list above was easy as hell. It was tedious, but it also was easy.

Still: were they as hard as dungeons are nowadays: by far not. We all have much much much much much more experience, and many mobs and bosses simply had less abilities than many npcs nowadays. Except LBRS, i still hate LBRS!!!

[stomination]

Pfft I remember tanking Deadmines at level 18 on my Arms Warrior with a 2 hander and without having learned Defensive stance. That's how bad I was and we still never wiped. They just took forever but were not necessarily difficult, except for the ones that ramped up the level of the enemies throughout like BRD.

pft did that as a shaman.

[KaPe]

"factually" .yea yea I would love to see how you can prove that.. According people here, number of deaths doesn't matter, it's not making game hard, just tedious.

You mention both mythic and heroic. If you believe that classic content is harder than mythic raiding... well. Sure, "that dude from Method" died few times while levelling. They also had 700+ wipes on boss that had to be nerfed twice (at least) to die. So either nothing is hard, *including* Classic, or your original quote makes no sense.

[ManiaCCC]

You mention both mythic and heroic. If you believe that classic content is harder than mythic raiding... well. Sure, "that dude from Method" died few times while levelling. They also had 700+ wipes on boss that had to be nerfed twice (at least) to die. So either nothing is hard, *including* Classic, or your original quote makes no sense.

This is what I said:

Base content in Vanilla is harder than base content in retail..base content is basically leveling, world and dungeons(compared to LFG variants).
Also, if we agree, that pulling right groups, CC-ing right mobs, making sure group wont overpull, mana management and one shooting tanks is not making game "hard", because you just have to learn how to deal with that, it means nothing in WoW is hard.

Vanilla wow had also overtuned raids, AQ was unbeatable for quite some time. Naxx was also adjusted several times. 700 wipes? Nah.."just tedious, not hard" you know..

[DeltrusDisc]

the most interesting part is people report weak instance mobs, but correct outdoor questing tuning. it is an improbable 'false memory' construction to see so commonly. I know there are people on standby to explain this with the 4 reasons (blizz has an alleged 1.12 test server which helped the demo be 100% right, false memories/12 years, and private server contamination, either by direct experience or osmosis, or better players)

Though... Back in Cata, Blizzard did say they "deleted everything from prior to Cata" so unless they want to go back on that statement and then never be trusted again...

I don't believe it for one minute, but they really wanted to look forward and I get that, but what a foolish statement it was, to say we could never go back. rofl

[Marakesh]

Well' it's not like vanilla dungeon trash is loaded with abilities like retail ones are right now , they autoattack and cast a couple of spells here and there . People playing beta right now have been playing and knowing the content for more than a decade now it's not really a surprise things are not as hard as they remember.

I really liked Asmon group taking on scarlet armory and cathedral at level 30 , that's peak challenge you can expect from vanilla . I don't expect any raid to pose any mechanic difficulty to the raider of 2019 if anything it will all be mathematical disadvantage on hps/dps caused by the slow gearing progress .

The only thing that can really screw your group is mobs fleeing into other packs of mobs but you can easily anticipate and counter that

Vanilla was all about judging the space between groups of mobs with patrols throwing a wrench in things. Its how to pull in the open world and keeping an eye out, or having a tank in a dungeon that does this same thing. Retail is all about your buttons. I prefer the vanilla visual approach, but it is old content now, not doubt about it.

[arkanon]

pft did that as a shaman.

PFFFFFFFFT did that as a DK. Get on my level.

- - - Updated - - -

Vanilla was all about judging the space between groups of mobs with patrols throwing a wrench in things. Its how to pull in the open world and keeping an eye out, or having a tank in a dungeon that does this same thing. Retail is all about your buttons. I prefer the vanilla visual approach, but it is old content now, not doubt about it.

This is a pretty accurate explanation of the different approach to creating difficulty. With an aging playerbase, the very twitchy and fast paced gameplay involved in PvP and M+ in particular is a turn off for many i know. A more methodical and slower paced dungeon is one of the things i would like to see brought back into retail, and is something that i hope Blizzard would consider returning to, at least in part. Unfortunately (for some) they have shown the opposite and pushed further down the "get it done and get it done fast" mindset with things like Island Expeditions.

Thats one of the things i enjoyed about BC - good mob control, positioning, and strong CC made dungeons smooth and fast - not spamming AOe mindlessly and popping your 7 CDs. This obviously became less of an issue with very geared toons, but that was another great thing about BC - you absolutely could outgear the content, and it gave a great sense of progression. Now everything scales and that feeling is gone.

[Darththeo]

Not sure if mentioned ... they are vanilla dungeons, they were made when the game was younger and they really didn't have much in the way of thinking on mechanics yet for dungeons. Seriously, compare vanilla dungeons to almost any dungeon in later expansions ... you can see a clear progression in how they approached the content. You are not the same you when you first played WoW. You have become more used to bosses with more weird things, multiple phases, etc even in dungeons. So going back to where it started it is going to seem easier, because it literally is.

[MoldySasquatch]

Hm, I wonder how Blizzard is dealing with not having the damage tables?

[PuppetShowJustice]

I'll add that TBC per-nerf heroic dungeons were, imo, the hardest dungeons ever. Nothing like having all melee mobs 360 cleave.

I was going to say something about heroics having never been hard but I will concede two things. H Shattered Halls scared me as a Prot Pally back then because people always wanted to rush for the Hand of the Naaru credit. And the first week or two of Heroics in Cataclysm was jarring. I vividly remember getting wrecked in Grim Batol.

Dungeons in vanilla didn't have mechanics to be scary. It was just people being clumsy and overpulling or being woefully undergeared with green Belt of the Monkey not being able to take a hit in BRD because the game didn't funnel blues at you after every other quest like it did later.

[Selah]

Vanilla is really easy dungeon wise. It just seemed harder because everyone sucked and the classes sucked.

[Erous]

I'll agree with what a couple have said that early cata heroics and raids were quite difficult as well. Blizzard trying to make up for the faceroll that were wotlk heroics really put a hurt on subs. They should've stuck with what made it popular in the first place: the lure of difficulty feeling rewarding.

[Deficineiron]

Though... Back in Cata, Blizzard did say they "deleted everything from prior to Cata" so unless they want to go back on that statement and then never be trusted again...

I don't believe it for one minute, but they really wanted to look forward and I get that, but what a foolish statement it was, to say we could never go back. rofl

I have not actually seen anyone but me discuss the swing timer question in the elite damage context but it seems like a central (if overlooked) part of the question.

[DeltrusDisc]

I have not actually seen anyone but me discuss the swing timer question in the elite damage context but it seems like a central (if overlooked) part of the question.

What does this have to do with your quote of my post? o.o

[Deficineiron]

What does this have to do with your quote of my post? o.o

I am just digressing. No one else replies to me there is a dilbert cartoon explaining your current predicament

though people with experience in computer tech/programming always said the dog ate my server code excuse was a questionable statement at best....but folks here quoted it verse and chapter, because they said it. I think that illustrates the average critical thinking skills of folks interested and informed enough about the game to make it here (say nothing of society at large).

[masonarypp]

I am really curious how this is gonna turn out. People having these expectations of dungeons being a lot harder might get bored a lot faster in the end-game of Classic? This may not acount for AQ/NAX but hey those are not going to be released for a long time..

[ManiaCCC]

Vanilla is really easy dungeon wise. It just seemed harder because everyone sucked and the classes sucked.

People say same about leveling, yet we have one of the best players in the world wiping during leveling and dungeons. I think people are not that good how they thought they are or WoW was actually quite challenging.

[Selah]

People say same about leveling, yet we have one of the best players in the world wiping during leveling and dungeons. I think people are not that good how they thought they are or WoW was actually quite challenging.

If a person walks into a raid by themselves and pulls a boss and dies, it doesn't mean the raid is hard. Likewise, in vanilla, the majority of the world was built around group play mechanics. Don't get me wrong, I like that but it doesn't make it difficult.

[ManiaCCC]

If a person walks into a raid by themselves and pulls a boss and dies, it doesn't mean the raid is hard. Likewise, in vanilla, the majority of the world was built around group play mechanics. Don't get me wrong, I like that but it doesn't make it difficult.

You are comparing apples and oranges but I am not sure if I really want argue about that. Majority of the world was not designed around "group" play.. There are zones and quest designed for group play and these zones/quest are "hard/tedious" for groups.