Page 5 of 39 FirstFirst ...
3
4
5
6
7
15
... LastLast
  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Krekko View Post
    They were never hard, just time consuming and requiring patience, sometimes confusing.

    Vanilla was never truly "hard", you just had so many roadblocks (many of which we are now better at handling/have better ideas of), that it seemed hard. It was an illusion.

    IMO TBC Heroics were the "hard" dungeons and even then it was easy, just once again tedious and time consuming. Same thing with the Cata heroics, people slammed how hard they were, people just didn't want to wait for healers to get mana.
    One thing people easily forget is that it wasn't until the end of Vanilla that general knowledge on how certain mechanics worked spread out beyond the hardcore players. You would have warriors tanking in green spirit only plate because it helped hp regen out of combat. Priests in agility cloth because it increased their wand damage. Or the mage that would only cast pyroblast... To top it all off, Classic is using the 1.12 itemization, which means a lot of items got buffed. From level 14 to level 30 a green item basically had a +1 to one stat on it. A blue item would have +2 to a stat or +1 to two stats. I think it was when they did the T0 and T.5 revamp is when they did the general number revamp on many items as well.
    TBC people knew stats better and had a better idea on how to gear a character, same with Cataclysm. The dungeons back then were designed around CC being used, not only because of threat was a thing the devs were using for active gameplay for tanks, but also because mobs had abilities that could be brutal if chained together with other members of the pack. Vanilla dungeons were hard because gear was closer to a D&D itemization mentality.
    That is a huge conflicting design problem of Vanilla. There were a lot of concepts from the initial design of the game that were a mix of table top rpg elements, that just didn't fit in the CRPG/MMO game design, which they pulled heavily from EQ. For instance, there was initially a survival tradeskill (in the alpha), it let you make fires and torches, for lighting. Eventually that got scrapped and rolled into cooking, because there was no good reason to give up your offhand to carry a torch. Mages initially could use invisibility like stealth (in alpha) and had a "knock" like spell to unlock things. Hybrid class design, and general design for classes to branch out of specialized roles. Great idea for a tabletop rpg, where you go into situations blind in a one-shot game design. Horrible design for a game where players will go into encounters knowing what they need and be able to optimize for those situations, making any non-specialized class design useless.
    What are you willing to sacrifice?

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Erous View Post
    I'll add that TBC per-nerf heroic dungeons were, imo, the hardest dungeons ever. Nothing like having all melee mobs 360 cleave.
    Having played both, I found pre-nerf Cata heroics harder, and that's even considering I was worse at the game during TBC. Played healer & tank during both.

  3. #83
    You mean...low level dungeons....ARE EASY?

    OH NO CLASSIC RUINED UNSUBBING REEEEEEEEE

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Krekko View Post
    IMO TBC Heroics were the "hard" dungeons and even then it was easy, just once again tedious and time consuming. Same thing with the Cata heroics, people slammed how hard they were, people just didn't want to wait for healers to get mana.
    TBC heroics were not easy until you were like, full T5 gear. Tanks would still get rekt by trash mobs and you needed CC. Cata was the same way until they nerfed the fuck out of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommi View Post
    LFR saved raiding
    Quote Originally Posted by Haekke View Post
    LFR is not really easy. I would say it's a lot harder thant Mythic Dungeons
    get_a_load_of_this_guy_cam.jpg

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Erous View Post
    I'll add that TBC per-nerf heroic dungeons were, imo, the hardest dungeons ever. Nothing like having all melee mobs 360 cleave.
    Shattered Halls? More like Shattered Dreams.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    Patch 1.3

    Scholomance
    Risen Aberration health and damage reduced.
    Reduced the duration of Dark Plague from three minutes to 90 seconds.
    Fixed a bug that caused the Cloud of Disease spell, cast by Diseased Ghouls, to do more damage than intended.
    Blood of Innocents will now drop off both Doctor Theolen Krastinov (The Butcher) and Jandice Barov for players that have completed the Sarkhoff questline in Scholomance.
    Shadow resistance now will be more effective at mitigating the damage from Unholy Aura.
    The creature spell, Call of the Grave, has had its damage reduced by half.

    Stratholme
    Baroness Anastasi in Stratholme will now leave the possessed target when the target is below 50% health, instead of 30%. She will also cast Possession slightly less often.
    Roaming Gargoyles will be set to a 30-minute respawn.
    Roaming Shades set to 15-30 minute respawn (previously 5-15).
    Patchwork Horrors set to 15-30 minute respawn (previously 6-10).
    Overall respawn in the entire dungeon made longer.
    Crimson Conjurers will no longer roam in pairs.
    Crimson Conjurers can now only have a max of two "pets" at one time.
    Changed the way the Gauntlet area works. The Crystals no longer respawn.
    The Crystals no longer fire ribbon of souls (this was causing in-combat issues).
    Fixed a bug that was causing monsters to leave combat in mid-fight, thus regaining all their health.
    Various tweaks made to the Baroness encounter.


    Patch 1.5

    Several packs removed from Scholomance.
    Several packs removed from Stratholme. Also, you will now be able to make additional attempts at Ramstein and/or Baron Rivendare should your initial attempt fail.
    Yeah, that's called tuning. Doesn't change the fact that the dungeons were easy from the beginning.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    TBC heroics were not easy until you were like, full T5 gear. Tanks would still get rekt by trash mobs and you needed CC. Cata was the same way until they nerfed the fuck out of them.
    They werent hard. Just tedious. Having to wait for healer mana between pulls and assign some CC.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    LoS 15 years ago? Forget about it.
    Kiting 15 years ago? Forget about it.
    Interrupts and stuns? Well, that's still kinda mixed even after 15 years, lol.
    You are just talking shit without any experience from vanilla.

    Things like LoS pulls were standard and UBRS kiting pulls at the end of the dungeon were standard for many specs. And this was at the beginning while farming pre-raid gear for MC. Soloing dungeons with LoS/Kiting started at MC/BWL progress and it was a basic thing to learn how to do them.

    Why would you even compare your private server children community with players not able to afford a subscription with the mature community of wow vanilla?

    FFS watch some of the old solo videos made at early vanilla or watch some of the strats for raidbosses involved kiting. Just because overgeared private server players faceroll the encounters, does not mean it worked out the same way with pre-raid gear in vanilla.
    hidden information WoWArmory | Raider.IO | WoWProg | logs Logs1 | Logs2 | Logs3

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by xGLxAnubis View Post
    You just described 'harder'.
    Fair, but people seem to equate "harder" to mean serious difficulty, when WoW was much, much easier than anything else out at the time. (We're not talking about classic EverQuest difficult for example.)

  9. #89
    Vanilla wasn't Dark Souls played on a steering wheel, it was moderately difficult anyway.

    Dungeon difficulty worked differently back then, it came from threat/mana problems and need to CC, in opposed to todays focus on dangerous, sometimes 1 shot mechanics, dps requirements and ability to chainpull/AoE without dying. And it wasn't intended for decent groups to wipe over and over, it was still a well designed game, players would say "screw that" after having to do the ghost run back in WC for the 10th time.

    Anyway, the main thing to keep in mind is that right now people invited to classic are mostly either decent players or those who already did it anyway. You used to wipe due to random assholes who pulled more mobs for lulz or broke CC, beta won't have many of those.

  10. #90
    The rose tint is fading as reality sets in - The dungeons 'feel' easy because............they are easy. Thats ok obviously, not a problem at all. Its how they were, so its how they are. PPL will no doubt start trying to say "its only the early dungeons, wait until they get to [insert dungeon here]!!!!" - but reality is that dungeon will be an absolute walkover as well. and thats ok. Its how it was, its how it should be. People hoping Classic is going to be the definitive mmo experience with challenging content for years to come are barking up the wrong tree.

    Its going to be exactly what it was, and that is fine. We all expected the majority of ppl who try Classic to quit pretty quickly, and thats exactly what will happen. And that is FINE. Dungeons were and are an absolute pushover - the challenge in vanilla was finding ppl, getting them there (many wouldnt know were the entrance was), staying connected, hoping the server didnt crash, hoping someones mum didnt pull the plug, hoping the tank had at least SOME idea of what tanking actually was, hoping the dps actually knew what tanking was, and hoping the 4th dps knew he was actually supposed to be healing. - oh shit, my gears red - be back in 45 mins i need to WALK back to nearest town - cant afford mount yet.

  11. #91
    The Lightbringer crakerjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Ptwn, Oregon
    Posts
    3,878
    Quote Originally Posted by Erous View Post
    I'll add that TBC per-nerf heroic dungeons were, imo, the hardest dungeons ever. Nothing like having all melee mobs 360 cleave.
    I never thought they were hard. You just had to be smart and not bite off more than you can chew. Assuming you pulled one mob at a time and used proper CC, there's nothing that could go wrong. I still remember shattered halls before the nerfs and if you pulled 2+ mobs, then you knew it was game over. Just use every CC available, pull the mob back and re-CC accordingly.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  12. #92
    How crazy is it that even when the OP clarified what he was asking people still want to bring their agenda into the thread lol?

    Guys please pay attention to what he is asking, no one thinks vanilla dungeons are super hard or anything along those lines, its the stark contrast between leveling difficulty and dungeons on the classic beta which is of a concern.

    We are in a beta of a 15 year old game that has been retro-fitted to run on modern day hardware, who knows what kind of crazy bugs could pop up in that process. Obviously players have gotten better over the years but that isnt what this thread is about lol, agenda andy's man....

  13. #93
    They were easy...it was just ppl who didnt know their skills/talents/etc and how to play, last boss in UBRS was hard if your group sucked... thats it. Time consuming and new are the words you are looking for.

    People are trying to show vanilla as god-tier-game...it was crap, get over it. "Not a bug list" show exactly how ppl remember vanilla. Ah... and those comments about raiding naxx from people who are now 19-21 y old...yeah, you were raiding nappies...

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Even with limited tool kits, a lot of people understand core concepts better now than they did then.

    LoS 15 years ago? Forget about it.
    Kiting 15 years ago? Forget about it.
    Interrupts and stuns? Well, that's still kinda mixed even after 15 years, lol.

    All of the Vanilla dungeons are pretty easy if you don't over pull and either kite or use LoS to your advantage if you find yourself in a terrible spot. When these things happened when I played, people just fell over like flies and panic ensued.
    Come on dude, one thing is true, it was how tedious it could be having to pull while using CC one by one which made it seem "hard" back then. But you people are over-exagerating. I was a tank back then and ofc i knew about LoS, ofc hunters and casters knew about kiting, and i can asure you paladins knew how to stun.

    It wasn't hard per se and i agree about that, but you are all here pretending people back then were monkeys or something.

    Of course people learned a lot in all those years. Ofc internet/resources for playing made it easier. Ofc QoL changes/dumbing down many mechanics made it more pleasent to deal with. But it wasn't that bad like you guys are trying to pretend.

    Like, come on, people were kiting Khazzak and friends to stormwind every single day, paladins stunned you 1 thousand times in duels and rogues knew well to interrupt (god even in ZG when fighting thekal we had rogues interrutp/stunlock-tanking one of the bosses), people usually pulled in dungeons (Specially in the narrow blackrock ones) using LoS. One thing is not having so much knowledge about the game back then, and a different one is pretending everyone back then were young and retarded and couldn't comprehend anything unlike know, where it seems fornite made kids turn into masterminds who can dominate every game flawlessly...

  15. #95
    I mean, isn't the level cap low at the moment? Of course the dungeons are easy (??)
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    Brexit: it's the dumbest WWE plotline to ever escape into real-life that can't end soon enough because everyone hates how it started, how it's going and how its going to end.
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Trebuchets new meta.

  16. #96
    Yeah watching Asmondgold in various dungeons, badly tank packs of 4, with a two-hander, and no CC...
    and the healer or mage never ever(!) stopping for mana....
    That was DEFINITELY not vanilla.

    The final version has to be a lot "harder".
    And i use quotes because i dont mean Blizzard's idea of harder. ie: Higher health and armor on mobs.
    I mean stronger attacks, maybe even more types of attacks, and if possible better AI.

    Maybe they could add "Heroic Servers" where it will be much harder (harder, not just lengthier) and you will lose XP when you die.
    And then "Survival PvP Servers" where it will be like the Heroic ones, but the opposite faction can loot your equiped items. (all items will be BoE)
    Last edited by Alex86el; 2019-05-19 at 09:36 PM.

  17. #97
    people with their nostalgia like to remember it as hard when it wasn't. most who played back then were kids, or played their first mmo and had little to no knowledge and skill, now we have been playing mmos for 15 years, with all min max information available everywhere on streams/forums/discords, ofc it will be very easy

    ofc you remember the vanilla dungeons as hard if you played the game as a 12 year old playing your first mmo
    Last edited by apelsinjuice; 2019-05-19 at 09:41 PM.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimreaper View Post
    You really dont think thats going to happen again?

    Ofcourse the streamers playing it now are breezing through it, because they are seasoned veterans. Come launch day and we'll be flooded with useless/ignorant/bad players again.

    Player skill is static, it doesnt evolve.
    Highly doubt classic is going to attract many WoW/MMO "noobs". It will be a mix of old and retail players, and the average skill level will be about 100x higher then during actual vanilla.

    Consider now that someone getting green parses in BFA runs is probably playing at a much higher level then the worst players did in top guilds in Nax, just from an apm and mechanical stand point alone.
    Last edited by Tech614; 2019-05-19 at 09:44 PM.

  19. #99
    The vast majority of people who played classic were keyboard turning idiots.

    The people saying it's too easy are likely one of those keyboard turners who gradually got better throughout the years and just didn't realize it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    liberalism is a right wing idealogy.

  20. #100
    Dungeons had been easy in classic. Bosses were mainly tank and spank.

    The hard part about dungeons was to find people. And the reputation grinds for dungeons like Maraudon took forever.

    Most people skipped dungeons in classic, and just leveled.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •