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  1. #161
    Classic WAS fucking easy, people were just clueless back then.
    MMO-Champ needs upvotes

    I have a bit over 1500 hours of /played, I don't expect any actual difficulty in dungeons. The only difficulty will be from people being dumb or making mistakes.

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    sounds like your just anti social mate.
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  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by XDurionX View Post
    Classic WAS fucking easy, people were just clueless back then.
    This is the main part of it tbh. *Everybody* was new back in the day, along with a constant influx of new players going strong until after Wrath. The hardest/longest part of dungeons usually came with creating them or having to go out and find new players if people left. Apart from that dungeons were as straight forward as they are now, they just took longer.

  3. #163
    I mean, at high level the difficulty is people being impatient and overpulling. The dungeons are dense and have a lot of patrols. It's just a matter of being careful.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    MMO-Champ needs upvotes

    I have a bit over 1500 hours of /played, I don't expect any actual difficulty in dungeons. The only difficulty will be from people being dumb or making mistakes.
    I think in the type of content i would compare to a vanilla 5man (BfA heroic / M+0) is quite comparable in actual 'difficulty' as far as how hard things hit, how hard we hit, how long things take to kill etc. What has absolutely changed is how quickly you can outgear the 5man content (leaving M+ aside obviously) I would say within an hour of hitting 120 heroics / m+0 would stop rewarding anything of use outside of warforged / titanforged items (another discussion altogether)

    But in response to what you said, people still make stupid mistakes and pull extra packs now, but we have so many more tools to avoid a wipe - multiple classes with brez, hero, self heals, huge defensive cds, mass stuns / blinds / fears, nearly everyone can CC a mob, many even while in combat (sap the only exception now? cant even remember, never use CC)

    tl;dr the hard part for ppl will be not having all those 'oh shit' buttons that every single class has now - sometimes a mistake will happen, and that will be it - you will just wipe and there will be nothing you can do to stop it from happening.

  5. #165
    In Classic, I remember running my first dungeon with three people in RFC. As a shaman, I tanked and healed, while my rogue and hunter friends did the DPS. We cleared the whole thing.

    I regularly ran LBRS with two hunters, a rogue, an arms warrior, and my shaman. I did Strat (Live) with a shaman "tank." Tanks weren't necessary at all outside of raids.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    I mean of course something that scales up endlessly will be technically harder.

    I hate the timer though, BC and Cataclysm heroics were a ton of fun. Mythic+ feels like a chore. I miss when the game was an RPG not an e-sports platform.
    Fair enough, as long as that is acknowledged, then it indeed makes sense to point out HC tbc dungeons as the hardest non-scaleable, non-timed dungeons for sure.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    MMO-Champ needs upvotes

    I have a bit over 1500 hours of /played, I don't expect any actual difficulty in dungeons. The only difficulty will be from people being dumb or making mistakes.
    1500...

    That's rookie numbers. I have over 1 year /played on my main alone.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Oncereborn View Post
    1500...

    That's rookie numbers. I have over 1 year /played on my main alone.
    yeah pretty much, think I hit 1 year played near the end of MoP I try not to look anymore

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    I mean, I'm also fairly certain that dungeons in like 1.2 were a lot harder than in 1.12 as well.
    Strath and Scholo were an absolute bitch to run as 5-mans originally. People did them in raid groups to zerg them for loot, but if you had to run one for a quest (after they changed it so you couldn't just jump out of the raid for a second to loot a quest item.) they were really shitty and they took forever. By 1.12 they'd been nerfed into the ground to make up for not being able to run them in raids anymore.

    The leveling dungeons were never really difficult, especially by 1.12, just tedious and overly time consuming.
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  10. #170
    Can't wait for people to get to Molten Core and report the staggering news that Molten Core is a piss easy instance, just like it always has been.

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    Can't wait for people to get to Molten Core and report the staggering news that Molten Core is a piss easy instance, just like it always has been.
    Watch it get swiftly "countered" by some guy claiming that they wiped to the first Firelord - while forgetting to mentiond they pulled it while 90% of the raid was afk so only tank and couple healers were ready. Nono, tons of little fire adds, that's totally what happened in Molten Core.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    tl;dr the hard part for ppl will be not having all those 'oh shit' buttons that every single class has now - sometimes a mistake will happen, and that will be it - you will just wipe and there will be nothing you can do to stop it from happening.
    This is definitely what people will have to get used to.

    Six mobs on a tank WILL kill the tank faster than they can be healed. As such, packs don't usually have 6 mobs in them - But some packs are close enough together where, yes, you will end up with 6 or more if you're not careful.

    If you end up with 6 mobs, you're likely to wipe. If you end up with MORE than 6 mobs, it's basically a guaranteed wipe. Some packs are dangerous enough where even just 3 mobs is too many, and you need to CC one of them to ensure the tank doesn't get destroyed.

    This can't be outskilled. It can be feign death'd and vanished, but not outskilled. You can't out-skill a mob's damage in Vanilla, you either can take the damage or you can't. There's often not a button you can press to salvage the situation, and people are going to need to get used to that again.

    It's not hard. I won't pretend it's hard. But it's not avoidable. These days, you outgear an instance and can practically ignore it's mechanics - You will never be able to do that in Classic, at least not well enough to solo anything.
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  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by duselsteiner View Post
    No, thats not true. The skill cap has raised, the average skill remained static. Today, you got better good and great players, but normal players, which are the vast majority, did not become better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimreaper View Post
    Thats experience and knowledge, not skill. Also raising the skill cap does not mean players become better, they just get more room to shine.


    Seriously doubt it.
    If you guys want to debate skill vs. skill obtained through experience/knowledge then have it. But it doesn't really change the fact that the average player now plays at a higher level than the average player when WoW first launched. I expect that many people are going to find vanilla content easier to handle this time around.

    I'm not saying that the average player in retail is great, or even good, but people during vanilla were often very bad, and they did not understand how to do some pretty rudimentary shit at the time.

  14. #174
    Dungeons weren't too hard when I was semi-tanking or trying to heal as an Enhance up to lv 45ish. Granted this was in TBC, but it's comparable.

    Classic's challenge is time sink, not difficulty wall.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Zimpoli View Post
    Dungeons weren't too hard when I was semi-tanking or trying to heal as an Enhance up to lv 45ish. Granted this was in TBC, but it's comparable.

    Classic's challenge is time sink, not difficulty wall.
    I never used cc when I tanked on my warrior in classic until max level dungeons. It was mostly unexpected mobs or pats that were scary.
    Violence Jack Respects Women!

  16. #176
    Low level dungeons end up being to easy? Well color me shocked..

    I remember clearing them back when I first played and the entire group had no idea what a dungeon was supposed to be (running Ragefire Chasm for the first time). We were just zerging mobs till we got to the point that the whole place is clear, and we were like ''guess we're done''. The only thing you needed to know is to not pull to many mobs.

    Some dungeons like Scholomance and Stratholme can still prove to be a cock in the ass if your group keeps running around not looking in every corner where groups of mobs are hanging around. I still even get bad Stratholme experiences in BFA because of uncareful pulls.

  17. #177
    As what most people here said.

    There was nothing hard about vanilla dungeons. The thing is people back then were clueless and pulled more than they can handle. especially on vanCleef ship.

  18. #178
    Vanilla was incredibly easy. As long as Classic is exactly the way vanilla was I'm fine with it, it's not exactly the game you play when you want a challenge.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    Vanilla was incredibly easy. As long as Classic is exactly the way vanilla was I'm fine with it, it's not exactly the game you play when you want a challenge.
    I will say, it's extremely refreshing on beta to have regular mobs be threatening. My mage couldn't take two mobs he's out of mana after one. And a lot of areas have dense mob counts with patrols.

    That's a huge difference, the constant threat of death when leveling makes the game a lot more engaging.

    Dungeons aren't going to be hard, but you do have to be careful. Pulling a ton of extra mobs will cause wipes.

  20. #180
    Yeah, vanilla WoW was never hard. I personally played WildStar and that was way harder. Harder group content. Even FF14 was harder except for the first few dungeons. Vanilla WoW is until Aq40 FULL of tank and spank fights, with MAYBE one or two added mechanics thrown in, one of them being (in raids at least) not to stand in a fire. Though back then people were really new to raiding, so some people were still bad enough to stand in those fires, which was the challenge back in the day. xD

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