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  1. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    I said They used them as the base line comparison. You seem to want to make it out go people ranting it to be like PS. What exactly are you on about with this?
    My bad man...i was still thinking of somones elses post.
    No one here is saying they want Classic to be like PS's.

    My bad.

  2. #522
    Every major patch during vanilla had nerfs to dungeons and raids. Raids and dungeons on most private servers are trying to emulate encounter pre-nerfs. Classic will use 1.12 mechanics and stats, meaning we will get the easiest version on vanilla.

    No more wiping on onyxia.

  3. #523
    Stop using private servers where they change stuff all the time as what Vanilla was like as many times it just isn’t true. Like this case.

  4. #524
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    My bad man...i was still thinking of somones elses post.
    No one here is saying they want Classic to be like PS's.

    My bad.
    I wanted to praise you on a proper resolution to a misunderstanding.

  5. #525
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldfire989 View Post
    Stop using private servers where they change stuff all the time as what Vanilla was like as many times it just isn’t true. Like this case.
    Progression? Or what do are you referring to?

  6. #526
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by collax View Post
    It get cleared in the first day every time it's released on any private server, even on the one that buffed the already buffed boss stats (health, armor, damage) by 30% and disactivated world buffs inside.
    There's no way you can level from 1-60, get geared up through all the other raids and dungeons, and then clear Naxxrammas in a single day. No way, dude.

  7. #527
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    There's no way you can level from 1-60, get geared up through all the other raids and dungeons, and then clear Naxxrammas in a single day. No way, dude.
    Naxx is not released on the first day.

  8. #528
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    @Funkyjunky I guess I misunderstood what collax was saying, then. It sounded like they meant 'first day' as in 'day one of the server'.

    EDIT: Do I think it's possible to clear it on day one of Naxx release? Sure, if people have had enough time to get all the gear, buffs, etc. ready. There are plenty of guides out there for Naxx, and people who have done it before. It would probably be really difficult to do, though.

  9. #529
    The game is 15 years old. People have done every dungeon so many times by now they know them in and out. That coupled with the scale of information available for everything regarding classic, im not surprised dungeons are easier than people remember them to be.

    Not to mention alot of the people that got early beta access probably belong to the group of players that got alot of knowledge and experience in the game - especially the streamers. And watching popular streamers getting grps etc for dungeon runs aint really the "correct" image of how it will be for the average player.

    My personal experience though:

    Back in classic I never really thought the early dungeons were hard - like Deadmines, Wailing Caverns, Scarlet M, Stockade etc. It really started to get harder when you got closer to 60 and at 60.

    But whats really "harder" in classic is to get 5 people in a group. Then travel to a dungeon. Then hope they are all good enough to complete dungeon. THEN hope everyone actually will stay the whole run, cause it was such a pain to replace someone. Someone instaleaves cause you wiped? In retail, we can get a new one quickly(except m+), but in classic it can be a whole ordeal.

    Gear also had a much greater impact at lower lvls. Not only should you be lvl appropiate, but also have OKish gear. The streamers are all good geared and it was no hassle for them to get "BIS" at lvl 30. Cause they get alot of free help.

    Just imagine a dungeon like Maraudon, as a alliance player or horde for that matter. You are all in SW, IF or Darnassus. Just the time it takes to even get there can be a hurdle to many. You are all there, go in. After about 10 minutes someone leaves for X reason. Now what? Well out to find a replacement.

    The good thing about all this is that if you did complete dungeons that required time, effort and some skill, you would often end up making friends along the way. That aspect is 100% gone now. You queue up, rush through dungeon and leave. In classic you and your grp shares the experience and reap the rewards together in the end.

    I remember all that back then, and it was great too. Will it great for me this time around? I dont really know, I hope so.
    Last edited by crusadernero; 2019-05-22 at 04:44 PM.

  10. #530
    The problem is, people expect everyone to be as terrible as them.

    "I only get to play 5h per week, and in retail after 2 months i have nothing to do" (Without ever doing anything worthwhile but thats another point, anyone can play as far as they want).

    Those people believe that somehow because its Classic, everyone will accept them for how slow and terrible they are.

    They cant comprehend how private server players will get in and cleave everything.

    They cant comprehend how when Vanilla was out, there were people that played 20h/day, and there are people that will do that now of the new generation.

    And they cant comprehend that not everyone wants to pretend things are hard for the sake of others.

    And people crying about how endgame dungeons are gonna be harder, adorable but no.

    There are 2 dangerous mobs in Vanilla pre-raid, the Mortal Strike guard in DM North (which any half arsed group would skip for Tribute Run), and the last boss in DM west Prince Tortheldrin? with his attack speed (windfury?) when you are completely undergeared and bad at the game.

    The rest are pointless tank and spank.
    Last edited by potis; 2019-05-22 at 04:53 PM.

  11. #531
    If you want hard dungeons play retail mythic +

  12. #532
    yeah classic was brutal, i remember my first dungeon ever, DM, i kept rolling need because i really disliked the 'greed' word, i mean come on, greed is bad...

    we kept wiping because the tank had no shield and the healer wasn't really healing and the hunter didn't know how to use his pet etc...

    but vanilla dungeons in 2019 a challenge?... come on...

  13. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armadildo View Post
    People try low level dungeons. OH MY GERD ITS EASY.
    Good luck in stratholme.
    You mean that dungeon I used to tank as a pally with a 2H mace equipped as holy spec so I could zap the shades?

  14. #534
    I'm excited to see if i remember things wrong or not.

  15. #535
    I can't believe that people still ACTUALLY believe/remember that vanilla gameplay is hard. The difficulty in vanilla has always been time commitment required, but the mechanics were simple even on the standards of those days - how could they possibly pose any difficulty to someone who has been playing wow for about 15 years so far? Content is slow to complete, but it is by no means hard.

    Read this carefully: If you are looking only for challenge, vanilla is not your game. Modern wow has way more challenging content than vanilla.

  16. #536
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    Like I pretty much said in my OG post.
    And i thank you for that. I had read your post a while ago and it made me think this while i was watching the beta streams.

  17. #537
    Quote Originally Posted by duselsteiner View Post
    If you want hard dungeons play retail mythic +
    And here is one big problem with modern version of dungeons. Difficulty levels. Mythic+ is challenging and super hard compared to classic dungeons but flaw is in order to make them hard you have to start scaling difficulty sliders. And difficulty sliders are not mmorpg feature what should be in any proper mmo game. Everyhing should have 1 set difficulty and that difficulty should be at level of mythic 10. No timers, no corridors, just slow challenging dungeon crawl in really big *** dungeon with secrets, rare bosses and crafting material, etc... This what makes dungeons and raids in classic appealing. Fact they do not have difficulty levels. You do dungeon or not there is nothing between. No easy mods, no lfr, no lfg, nothing. And as long as Blizz will segment game into bazillions of difficulty levels end game of classic will be always more appealing regardless if content is hard or not.

    Well in the end we all know what slowly killed off most of wow community. Acessability. Classic lacks that and brings exclusivity which is huge iniciative to do content itself
    Last edited by Elias01; 2019-05-22 at 07:01 PM.

  18. #538
    Well, dungeons were never hard in Vanilla.

    So, working as intended.
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  19. #539
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    And here is one big problem with modern version of dungeons. Difficulty levels. Mythic+ is challenging and super hard compared to classic dungeons but flaw is in order to make them hard you have to start scaling difficulty sliders. And difficulty sliders are not mmorpg feature what should be in any proper mmo game. Everyhing should have 1 set difficulty and that difficulty should be at level of mythic 10. No timers, no corridors, just slow challenging dungeon crawl in really big *** dungeon with secrets, rare bosses and crafting material, etc... This what makes dungeons and raids in classic appealing. Fact they do not have difficulty levels. You do dungeon or not there is nothing between. No easy, no lfr, no lfg, nothing.
    Thats a really good point.

    A "difficulty slider" is less epic than a TBC Heroic being hard by default. It makes the place more epic to begin with.

    Herr...you could consider "Heroic" a difficulty slider...true...but at least its not a +23 different difficulty sliders.
    You either did it on normal or Heroic.

    In actual CLassic WoW Vanilla...i dont know if there will be any difficult dungeons. We will see.

  20. #540
    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    Yes and no. Yes, it’s true mechanic wise live wow has more to deal with than all of vanilla dungeons combined. However, they were more difficult than live in one important aspect...being unforgiving.

    Example: in live as a MT I can screw up half a dozen times and we can overcome it. I can forget my cds and I’ll be a ok. It’s way more forgiving, even with more mechanics and dangers.

    Classic is more dark souls in a way where it’s firm but fair in its difficulty and there’s not much forgiveness if they screw up you die and wipe

    So yes and no. Mechanics wise no, practically yes
    what do you mean unforgiving? Even fucking up something as major as not stance dancing a Magamdar/Onyxia/Nefarian isn't a guaranteed wipe. It is hard to compare Vanilla raiding group content (dungeon and raiding) with live because live has so many difficulties.

    You also had far fewer tools in Vanilla than now as far as tank mitigation goes. Shield Wall was a 30 minute- 1 hour CD (forgot which since it keeps getting shifted), so you are in far less control of your well-being and more dependent on your healers. There's a reason that tanks doing bleed edge content stacked stamina all the way up to Wrath/Cata because you simply can die when boss wants you to die.

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